Question about Moses

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#1
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#1
Why didn't Moses make it into the Promised Land?


Was it because of disobedience or was it because of a lack of faith?

Are they one and the same thing?


I think Moses misrepresented God at the Rock by causing the water to flow by his own strength and understanding instead of relying on the Provision and Work of God. Which caused Israel (and everyone else who would attempt to emulate them) to think that is the way.

Is there more to it than this?
 
Demi777

Demi777

Senior Member
#2
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
113
Germany
#2
Well to me it seems that its because hit/kicked the rock instead of just doing what God said. He got agressive and unpatient (which I would most likely be as well) and just took it into his own hands to take his agression out on Gods creation..I think thats most likely why..disobeying and agressive behavioir
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#3
#3
it seems to me that the primary sin moses struggled with was anger...which on two occasions revealed itself through acts of violence...first in egypt when he killed the egyptian slave driver...and then at kadesh when he harshly reprimanded the people and struck the rock...

also noteworthy is that these two sins...the only sins of moses to be recorded in the bible...both happened when moses did not follow God's plan and took things into his own hands instead...
 
M

Miri

Guest
#4
#4
Numbers 20:8-13 NKJV
[8] "Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together.
Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring
water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals."

[9] So Moses took the rod from before the LORD as He commanded him
[10] And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock;
and he said to them, "Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?"
[11] Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out
abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.

[12] Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow
Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the
land which I have given them." [13] This was the water of Meribah, because the children
of Israel contended with the LORD, and He was hallowed among them.




A couple of things come to mind, God told Moses to speak to the rock but he struck it.
Moses did not give the Glory to God but claimed it for both himself and the Aaron.
Despite this God was still gracious and water came forth.


The following verses are interesting:

Psalm 106:32-33 NKJV
[32] They angered Him also at the waters of strife, So that it went ill with
Moses on account of them; [33] Because they rebelled against His Spirit, So
that he spoke rashly with his lips.



Moses was angry at the people and he spoke rashly to them, but it seems the main
cause was the rebellious nature of the children of Isreal. Maybe the problem was that
Moses who was the leader allowed the Isrealites to influence him and as a result he lost
his temper and spoke foolishly.

I dont think the problem was disobedience against God, God still provided the water and
would have forgiven Moses. I think the problem was that the Isrealites saw what happened
publically and therefore needed to see publically and understand that leaders are just as
accountable for their actions as anyone else, more so in fact.

If anything I think it acts as a warning to anyone in leadership.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#5
#5
Grandpa said:
Why didn't Moses make it into the Promised Land?


Was it because of disobedience or was it because of a lack of faith?

Are they one and the same thing?


I think Moses misrepresented God at the Rock by causing the water to flow by his own strength and understanding instead of relying on the Provision and Work of God. Which caused Israel (and everyone else who would attempt to emulate them) to think that is the way.

Is there more to it than this?
Click to expand...
I don't think that double-tap incident was the cause only. When I read Moses' story, I saw him shrinking back often. (Feels familiar.) And because he shrank back, the people did too. So God put his foot down and told the group to shape up and ship out. Considering the Promise Land came complete with hoards of nations they needed to conquer, and even giants (or not. Never did make up my mind if that was complete fabrication or partial), the Israelites really needed to trust God or it wouldn't work well. (Ends up they didn't, and it didn't.)

So Moses shrank back one more time. The leader of their people didn't trust God. That was when Joshua, the one man who proved his trust more than once, got the job.

As for the rock? The people still needed enough water, so God honored his promise and gave it to them. Moses didn't magically get water to flow by tapping a rock twice. That was definitely God.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
#6
Whoa! Not one of us took the same thing out of this story. Now what?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#7
Jul 3, 2015
56,057
26,163
113
#7
The rock from which living waters flow was only to be struck once
to represent the future one time death of Jesus, once for all.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#8
#8
he disobeyed what God told him to actually do, which Magenta explained above

are we going to have a long discussion on obedience now?
 
T

TemporaryCircumstances

Guest
#9
#9
Depleted said:
Whoa! Not one of us took the same thing out of this story. Now what?
Click to expand...
Hence why we have the BDF.
No one gets the same thing out of the Bible, and the reason everyone gets so mad is because no one is willing to open their eyes and ears to what others see and are set in their own OPINIONS
 
M

Miri

Guest
#10
#10
Depleted said:
Whoa! Not one of us took the same thing out of this story. Now what?
Click to expand...

Its good though if everyone puts forward different ideas for consideration and can do
so in a civil way. It gets people thinking, actually discussing the bible instead of arguing
over it. :)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
#11
TemporaryCircumstances said:
Hence why we have the BDF.
No one gets the same thing out of the Bible, and the reason everyone gets so mad is because no one is willing to open their eyes and ears to what others see and are set in their own OPINIONS
Click to expand...
Are we supposed to get mad now? lol

I like how everyone did see it differently, yet it's the same story. Isn't that like God to get us where we're at?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#12
#12
Magenta said:
The rock from which living waters flow was only to be struck once
to represent the future one time death of Jesus, once for all.
Click to expand...
I see where you are coming from, although God did not tell Moses to strike the rock,
only to speak to it. That could have interesting parallells as well. The word became flesh etc. :)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#13
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
13,139
113
#13
There is an enormous symbolism here!

Moses' rod is a symbol of judgement: with it he brought the plagues on Egypt. The rock from which they drank is Christ ((re: 1 Corinthians 10:4)).
What Moses did by striking the rock rather than speaking to it was emblematic of Israel later rejecting Christ, and instead of calling out to Him for mercy, hanging him to die on a piece of wood -- a piece of wood used for judgement.

So Moses did not enter the promised land until he passed through death ((because at the transfiguration, Moses indeed stood in the land)) -- so also until Israel passes through death, the very death of the cross, they will not enter rest, just as we never entered rest until we entered into Him.

Y'all see this?? i know i'm not saying it well.
 
Last edited:
D

Depleted

Guest
#14
#14
Miri said:
I see where you are coming from, although God did not tell Moses to strike the rock,
only to speak to it. That could have interesting parallels as well. The word became flesh etc. :)
Click to expand...
I didn't catch that. Somewhere in their journey, God did have him strike the rock. Somewhere else he had him not. I didn't notice this was the no-tap time. (I keep thinking how hard do you think it has to be to strike a rock to get water? Most of us have never gotten water out of a rock, so why would anyone think to clobber it would make it work? That's why I keep thinking of it as a tap. Now I realize that Moses was really angry, so he probably did clobber it.)
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#15
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#15
Demi777 said:
Well to me it seems that its because hit/kicked the rock instead of just doing what God said. He got agressive and unpatient (which I would most likely be as well) and just took it into his own hands to take his agression out on Gods creation..I think thats most likely why..disobeying and agressive behavioir
Click to expand...
I've heard stories about shepherds out in the area Moses was in that could tell where the water was in the limestone by a glistening or shining. They could then hit the limestone a few times and it would release its water, like a dam.

I haven't confirmed this story as true or not but it makes sense to me. Moses was a shepherd for 40yrs so he would know the tricks...
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#16
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#16
RachelBibleStudent said:
it seems to me that the primary sin moses struggled with was anger...which on two occasions revealed itself through acts of violence...first in egypt when he killed the egyptian slave driver...and then at kadesh when he harshly reprimanded the people and struck the rock...

also noteworthy is that these two sins...the only sins of moses to be recorded in the bible...both happened when moses did not follow God's plan and took things into his own hands instead...
Click to expand...
Which, again, misrepresents God, imo. Moses represented God as an Angry God in those instances and God was not. Or I should say, probably was not, in my estimation.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#17
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#17
LaurenTM said:
he disobeyed what God told him to actually do, which Magenta explained above

are we going to have a long discussion on obedience now?
Click to expand...
That was one of my points.

I didn't think Moses acted by his faith.

If he would have spoken to the rock, like instructed to do, there would be no doubt that it was faith in, and the work of, God that caused the water to come from the Rock.

But the way Moses did it, it seemed like more his work and his ability, and by that misrepresented God.

This is my opinion. I am no Moses expert. Just your run of the mill bible reading Christian.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#18
#18
posthuman said:
There is an enormous symbolism here!

Moses' rod is a symbol of judgement: with it he brought the plagues on Egypt. The rock from which they drank is Christ ((re: 1 Corinthians 10:4)).
What Moses did by striking the rock rather than speaking to it was emblematic of Israel later rejecting Christ, and instead of calling out to Him for mercy, hanging him to die on a piece of wood -- a piece of wood used for judgement.

So Moses did not enter the promised land until he passed through death ((because at the transfiguration, Moses indeed stood in the land)) -- so also until Israel passes through death, the very death of the cross, they will not enter rest, just as we never entered rest until we entered into Him.

Y'all see this?? i know i'm not saying it well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and this is why I'd read your post even if it was about dogs eating...

Same rod. Held up in the air for an entire battle. Also judgment? (Not arguing. Asking.)
 
vic1980

vic1980

Senior Member
#19
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#19
Psalm 106:32-33

32They angered him also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes:

33Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.

Shalom
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#20
Jul 31, 2013
36,687
13,139
113
#20
Depleted said:
Yeah, and this is why I'd read your post even if it was about dogs eating...

Same rod. Held up in the air for an entire battle. Also judgment? (Not arguing. Asking.)
Click to expand...
first, you are too kind to me, and i love you! ♥

second, how interesting!

. . . the staff of God held out, and Moses propped up against a rock, and his arms held up by the priest Aaron and Hur, their companion from Judah.

it does look like the battle was judgement, too. the Lord told Moses to write this down because He was going to wipe out the name of Amalek forever, and after the battle:

Moses built an altar and called it The Lord is my Banner.
He said,
“Because hands were lifted up against the throne of the Lord, the Lord will be at war against the Amalekites from generation to generation.”
(Exodus 17:15-16)

 cad2ff352caf08c5ecc1a82c9b12f322.jpg​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.