question about the Nature of God

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Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
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#62
The time to Repent, Believe and Trust in the Gospel way of salvation, is when the Gospel is revead to you..

Those who reject the Love of Gods truth in this life will not be given a second chance..
Why did Jesus go to the spirit prision after he died for 3 days to preach to the spirits in prison? (1 Peter 3:19)

If there was no chance to repent after we die, then why would Jesus spend the time to preach to those who were dead and in a spirit prison?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,142
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#63
In context Abraham is speaking of the Rich Man's relatives, not about every human being that ever existed.
the context is the parable of the shrewd manager.

the context is verse 10:

Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.
the context is verse 15:

You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts! What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight!
the context is verse 16:

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
the context is verse 18:

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
immediately after this is written the account of the unnamed rich man and the beggar Lazarus. that is not arbitrary.

none of these things are specific to a specific unnamed man's brothers.

why do you think it is because Abraham has specific knowledge of an unnamed man's unnamed 5 brothers that he says "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" ?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,469
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#64
Why did Jesus go to the spirit prision after he died for 3 days to preach to the spirits in prison? (1 Peter 3:19)

If there was no chance to repent after we die, then why would Jesus spend the time to preach to those who were dead and in a spirit prison?
I'm no expert on anything. And I am not even sure what that means...but if it means he went to hell to preach to those that died in their sins then I'm assuming that it is because they died under the old covenant before he shed his blood for the remission of sins and sent the Holy Ghost into the world to convict the world of sin. They died under the old covenant and didn't have the chances that individuals under the New Covenant have.

I don't think this would continue to be done once the New Covenant was in effect, and can see no scriptures to even suggest that it would...just my thoughts on it, anyhow.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#65
1 Peter 3:18-20 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 For indeed Christ died for sins once for all, the Just and Righteous for the unjust and unrighteous [the Innocent for the guilty] so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; 19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.

I know that those who teach a second chance after death quote the above text. What are the possible understandings of the text above?
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. John5:25

May well be related to your scriptures. Was Peter only referring to people in Noahs day? Or the fact no one would enter heaven without Christ's sacrifice therefore he went to preach to those who had previously died.(concerning Elijah, don't build a doctrine on one verse of scripture)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
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#66
I've always been taught that the dead in Christ shall rise first and this is the first resurrection.

In 1 Thessalonians 4 Paul also talks about the first resurrection
verse 16
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Here is an article about it. It's a little long so I haven't read it all just yet, but what I read so far does seem to make sense.

https://bible.org/seriespage/4-two-resurrections
so, now we have more conflicting texts.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
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#67
the context is the parable of the shrewd manager.

the context is verse 10:

Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.
the context is verse 15:

You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts! What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight!
the context is verse 16:

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.
the context is verse 18:

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
immediately after this is written the account of the unnamed rich man and the beggar Lazarus. that is not arbitrary.

none of these things are specific to a specific unnamed man's brothers.

why do you think it is because Abraham has specific knowledge of an unnamed man's unnamed 5 brothers that he says "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead" ?
You quoted,
Luke 16:31
He said to him,
'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#68
I think Revelations 20 clearly sums this up. Death and Hell or Hades whatever you want to call it will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

There are two resurrections. The first is those that died in Christ. It says blessed and holy are they and they shall not take part of the second death.

Then those that died lost will be resurrected the second resurrections and they will be judged from the book of life according to their works. It's clear to me, these are the lost and their is no hope for them because they are being judged by their works from when they were alive and rejected Jesus. Once again they will bow and confess, we know this because the Lord swore by himself and said As I Live all knees will bow and all tongues confess. However, there is no chance of getting saved at this point it is too late. It is the judgement.
Laying aside the first resurrection for a moment:

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” John6:40
When is the last day?


Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. Rev20:11-15&21:1-4

The last day Christ referred to is the last day of this present earth
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
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#70
I'm no expert on anything. And I am not even sure what that means...but if it means he went to hell to preach to those that died in their sins then I'm assuming that it is because they died under the old covenant before he shed his blood for the remission of sins and sent the Holy Ghost into the world to convict the world of sin. They died under the old covenant and didn't have the chances that individuals under the New Covenant have.

I don't think this would continue to be done once the New Covenant was in effect, and can see no scriptures to even suggest that it would...just my thoughts on it, anyhow.
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong. 18 For Christ also died[a] for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
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#71
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. John5:25

May well be related to your scriptures. Was Peter only referring to people in Noahs day? Or the fact no one would enter heaven without Christ's sacrifice therefore he went to preach to those who had previously died.(concerning Elijah, don't build a doctrine on one verse of scripture)
Elijah huh?
 

Jan7777777

Active member
Oct 19, 2018
224
154
43
#72
God has to come to you when he knows your heart is ready, if he didn't while that person was on earth, then the heart was never going to be ready to accept Christ, through Faith. only one way to get to Heaven, through the door...whose the door? ===>Christ.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#73
When you state no one went straight to Heaven under the old covenant, some bring up Elijah, whom scripture states was taken up to Heaven. However, scripturally speaking there is more than one Heaven. Paul said he went to the third heaven. Christ's words should settle the matter:
No one has ever entered Heaven, except the one who came from Heaven, the Son of man John3:13
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#74
God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4).

Hebrews 12 Revised Standard Version (RSV)

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

One can not be a witness without an will.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
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#75
God has to come to you when he knows your heart is ready, if he didn't while that person was on earth, then the heart was never going to be ready to accept Christ, through Faith. only one way to get to Heaven, through the door...whose the door? ===>Christ.
If one repents after death, they are going through that door.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
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#76
God has to come to you when he knows your heart is ready, if he didn't while that person was on earth, then the heart was never going to be ready to accept Christ, through Faith. only one way to get to Heaven, through the door...whose the door? ===>Christ.
Matthew 7:13-14 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The Narrow Gate
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,[a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

The text does not say a person can not find the narrow gate after dying.

I am asking about the nature of God. And, is it possible for a few to repent after death --- Originally at the judgement.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,469
1,073
113
#77
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence; 16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong. 18 For Christ also died[a] for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.
Yeah, I'm assuming this means that he did this because those folks had died under the Old Covenant and did not have the same chances or grace that was given after he shed his blood. So he went and preached to give them the same chance that we all now have.

Still though, like I said I am no expert on this one.... :)
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,716
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#79
If that were the case then the crucifixion would be pointless. People could live however they want and repent at the last second.
The WORD of GOD says
John 6:42-45
King James Version


42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
+++
GOD looks at the heart where a person can't hide their true feelings.

No one can come to JESUS not sincerely repenting from the heart.

Repeating some words after the preacher and the repentance Is not sincere means that person couldn't come to JESUS,so then It wouldn't matter whether It's now or later the person must be truly sincere.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,142
9,736
113
#80
You quoted,
Luke 16:31
He said to him,
'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
yes, a verse in Luke 16. if you don't read the rest of Luke 16, maybe you don't understand what the context really is. but i thought, if i post all of Luke ch. 12 - 20, it will be a very long post that perhaps someone will skip and not read. however, i thought, if i post just this most salient part, maybe someone will see the chapter & verse, and go look it up, and read the surrounding text, and understand why Jesus is saying this, and how it relates to the OP.