Question for OSAS people. (from a believer who believes that God does indeed preserve us)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,262
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#21
18 This charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, that by them you
may wage the good warfare,
19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1Timothy 1:
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
1,803
113
#22
What about the statement that we sin all we want in the flesh, and that the verses about "sinneth not" in 1 John 3 is talking about the New Nature being sinless, instead of the usual interpretation that the one who is born of God does not practice, persist, continue in sin, (which is in agreement with Romans 6:1?)
The new nature Is the result Of the Born AGAIN person and the real person Is the spirit of that person and the Born Again spirit Is the part of us that Is sealed and Incorruptible and does not sin.

But by the mercies of GOD we should still renew our minds and frankly the bible says that we WILL seek to purify our MINDS to match the new creation we have become.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#23
The new nature Is the result Of the Born AGAIN person and the real person Is the spirit of that person and the Born Again spirit Is the part of us that Is sealed and Incorruptible and does not sin.

But by the mercies of GOD we should still renew our minds and frankly the bible says that we WILL seek to purify our MINDS to match the new creation we have become.
Excellent!!:)
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
1,803
113
#24
:ROFL: I just had someone tell me on another thread that the doctrine of "perserverance of the saints" is "helping Jesus save us". Have you ever heard anything so ludicrous?
🙂When they say the doctrine of perseverance Is helping JESUS save us sounds like they are saying that their physical work In continued progressive sanctification Is helping to save them.🙁IDK though.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#25
The new nature Is the result Of the Born AGAIN person and the real person Is the spirit of that person and the Born Again spirit Is the part of us that Is sealed and Incorruptible and does not sin.

But by the mercies of GOD we should still renew our minds and frankly the bible says that we WILL seek to purify our MINDS to match the new creation we have become.
EXACTLY what I believe. I am bringing these things out in the open so that they can be addressed by wise people like you, so that hopefully people who are otherwise minded can at least hear the truth. Some people live in an echo chamber and do not get to hear faithful teaching of God's Word as you have just presented it.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#26
The new nature Is the result Of the Born AGAIN person and the real person Is the spirit of that person and the Born Again spirit Is the part of us that Is sealed and Incorruptible and does not sin.

But by the mercies of GOD we should still renew our minds and frankly the bible says that we WILL seek to purify our MINDS to match the new creation we have become.
But I will ask this, (even though I agreed and do agree with your post), is Hebrews 3:6-9 speaking of the New Nature ONLY in the sense that the verbal phrase sinneth not is disconnected from what the PERSON with the new nature actually does?
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#27
When we receive the Spirit we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

But what seals the saints is that they depart from iniquity by the Spirit, and there is no excuse, for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections, and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit, and not the flesh.

Therefore they are not under the law because their sins are forgiven, and they are not sinning, so the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

That is why the Bible says not everyone that calls Jesus, Lord, will be saved, for Jesus said they were workers of iniquity.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

There is no difference between the Old and New Testaments, for we have to obey and abstain from sins to be right with God.

The Bible says do not depart from the living God by the deceitfulness of sins.

1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

For our sins separate us from God whether we claim Christ or not.

For people to say they cannot abstain from sins, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, is not truth, for the Bible says if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

They have a form of living for God but they deny being led of the Spirit, and enjoy sins thinking that they are alright with God.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

God said turn away from these people for they give Christianity a bad name because of their hypocrisy, which the Bible says give no offense in anything that the ministry be not blamed, but many blame the ministry as many in the world say hypocrite.

That is the difference between being led of the Spirit, and not being led of the Spirit, for a person led of the Spirit might sin because they wanted to sin, but they will get rid of it, and move forward, having the proper knowledge of the truth that sin separates us from God.

But those not led of the Spirit will sin because they wanted to sin, and will hold unto sin thinking it does not affect their relationship with God, and they enjoy sin on a daily basis, which a big one is the love of money, but you will hear them curse and swear, smoke and drink alcohol, be sexually immoral, enjoy worldliness, and worldly movies, and television, and music, like the world enjoys those things, for they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

Also saying they cannot abstain from sin does not make sense, for they have the knowledge of good and evil, and if they did evil they could of chose the good, so who twisted their arm to sin.

And if they sin they enjoyed the sin, for if they did not enjoy the sin they would of not sinned, so if they enjoyed the sin they did it on purpose, so there is no excuse if they say they cannot abstain from sin.

How can they sin on purpose, intentionally do it, premeditated sin, and then say they cannot abstain from sin, for that does not make any sense.

And if they cannot abstain from sin then why is the world in trouble for their sins.

If a person sins they should admit they wanted to enjoy the sin, but that it is not right that they sin, for they cannot be right with God if they hold unto sin, instead of saying they cannot abstain from sin when they do it on purpose.

Oh I am sorry honey for fornicating with the neighbor's wife for 3 hours, for you know we cannot abstain from sin, as though he could not stop himself in that whole 3 hours time, and his body took over and he could not control it.

That is the only way we cannot abstain from sin is if our body takes over, and we cannot stop it.

If we are walking barefoot on the sidewalk and we stub our toe, that is a mistake, but if we intentionally smack our toe in to an uplifted portion of cement on purpose how can we say it is a mistake, but even if we did not mean to do it we could of still paid attention to our walking and avoiding stubbing our toe.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, for God will not forgive a sin we did if we hold unto it, and have the intention of wanting to do it again, living in sin.

I think most people give in to peer pressure, and do not like to be labeled as a goody goody two shoes, so they go along with that belief they cannot abstain from sins, but then they are ashamed of Jesus who represents goodness, do not want to be like their Master, and ashamed of the truth.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

But I think they also like the security, and relaxed lifestyle that OSAS gives them, for there is no worries, no cares, no struggling, instead of what the Bible says that we have to strive for the mastery, and work out our own salvation with fear, and trembling, for Paul said it is like a race, and he fights for that salvation.

For we have a choice in our salvation, so we have to make the decision to do what is right, and good, before the Spirit will lead us.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
#28
Butterflies do not eat the same food they ate as caterpillars. Perhaps you are listening to pretenders and not possessors. Tares look like wheat but are not wheat.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
they don't even have the same mouthparts -- it's more than that their desires have changed, but they can't any more physically chew & digest the things they did in their previous form
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#29
Does OSAS mean that we can sin all we want and even stop believing in Jesus and still be saved? Because I ran into some who support and or defend this view
Why would one who was genuinely saved by grace, having repented (turned from all his sins and idols) turn back to filth and garbage? And anyone who genuinely believes in Christ cannot "stop believing".

OSAS should be properly stated as the eternal security of THE BELIEVER, not the pretender or the unbeliever. The believer becomes a child of God and must live as such. Therefore anyone who still loves sins and idols must truly repent as in the book of Jonah.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#30
they don't even have the same mouthparts -- it's more than that their desires have changed, but they can't any more physically chew & digest the things they did in their previous form
Exactly. They are new creatures just like the Christian. All things are new.

2 Cor 5:17 ..if any man be in Christ he is a new creature old things pass away behold all things are become new.

We should consider our conversion to have the same dynamic change in our life as the caterpillar becoming the butterfly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#32
The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....

Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us

Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us

Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us

Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do

Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God

Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them

Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD

Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept

Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept

Bible --->
Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil

Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep

Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved

Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again

Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved

ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store losable salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!

AND lastly....those in this thread that use Hebrews out of context to teach a losable salvation need to go back to the drawing board
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#33
The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....

Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us

KM..... correct he will not but man will forsake Him.

Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us

KM.....God is mighty, man is kept in the dust until.

Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us

KM....until the drawn last breath then it will be finished.

Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do

KM....... condemning a follow man to only a temporal life

Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God

KM.... James was out of context, that is bold

Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them

KM.... it pleases God that a believer practiced the fruits of the spirit

Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD

KM..... the prod son separated himself from his father

Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept

KM..... forsake him not the other way around.

Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept

KM..... return to the dust until

Bible --->Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil

KM.....sin more like the devil and grace is more (no). small sins are equal the big sins

Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep

KM.....not all prod sons return.

Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved

KM..... God is strong, man is weak

Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again

KM...... prod son

Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved

KM......at the end after being judged the righteous and the wicked

ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store losable salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!

KM......not kindness but devaluing

AND lastly....those in this thread that use Hebrews out of context to teach a losable salvation need to go back to the drawing board

KM....... insulting.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#34
iF I'm not mistaken, Romans 5 is talking about federal headship, ie in Adam we died, in Christ we are made alive.



He will still be dead, apart from faith.



The issue is not whether you believe in satan or not. The issue is "what do you do with Jesus"



Without Jesus, yes.
Can you see what you are saying? Adam's free gift to all of us was so powerful that neither doing good deeds, nor renouncing Satan, is sufficient for us to be rid of him.

Yet, you are now saying that Jesus's free gift to all of us is less powerful such that we can lose that free gift merely by doing bad deeds or renouncing him?

Is the final Adam less powerful than the first Adam? What do you think?
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,131
1,803
113
#35
But I will ask this, (even though I agreed and do agree with your post), is Hebrews 3:6-9 speaking of the New Nature ONLY in the sense that the verbal phrase sinneth not is disconnected from what the PERSON with the new nature actually does?
Hebrews 3:6-9
King James Version



6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
+++

The verse that says If we hold fast Is talking about the person has all their life to say yes and the SPIRIT IS very patient saying TODAY Is the day If you will hear my voice.

When you get saved It's your spirit that was made perfect and your body will seek to be like the new creation you have become and It's not that you are two people but because your spirit was changed, and now you have a new nature.

The born again Spirit Is what Is causing the new nature (which now that you are GODs workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works)
to desire to live right trying to be like the new creation you have become looking to be like the LORD.

CHRIST the vine and we are the branches,members of the body of CHRIST receiving sustenance from the VINE and displaying spiritual fruit.

Look up the teaching on Spirit Soul And Body by Andrew Wommack and he explains It Very well.

Paul said that he had wronged no man.

The people In the world at that time that knew him probably would have said he Is lieing,he has persecuted many christians but Paul's nature was changed by GOD and he was created In CHRIST unto good works and that's how he now saw himself.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#36
Can you see what you are saying? Adam's free gift to all of us was so powerful that neither doing good deeds, nor renouncing Satan, is sufficient for us to be rid of him.

Yet, you are now saying that Jesus's free gift to all of us is less powerful such that we can lose that free gift merely by doing bad deeds or renouncing him?

Is the final Adam less powerful than the first Adam? What do you think?
Where did I say anything about losing salvation? Just because I don't believe in the premise "you can sin all you want and even stop believing and still be saved" doesnt mean I believe in losable salvation. Go back and read what others have posted. I agree with all of the earlier posts for the most part.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#37
Can you see what you are saying? Adam's free gift to all of us was so powerful that neither doing good deeds, nor renouncing Satan, is sufficient for us to be rid of him.

Yet, you are now saying that Jesus's free gift to all of us is less powerful such that we can lose that free gift merely by doing bad deeds or renouncing him?

Is the final Adam less powerful than the first Adam? What do you think?
LOL, Undergrace liked your post where you mistakenly think I am arguing for a losable salvation, when she knows full well I don't because I told her at least five times. :ROFL:
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#38
🙂When they say the doctrine of perseverance Is helping JESUS save us sounds like they are saying that their physical work In continued progressive sanctification Is helping to save them.🙁IDK though.
They obviously don't know what doctrine of perserverance means. They could always google it, but they don't bother because they want to keep building strawmen to burn.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#39
Where did I say anything about losing salvation? Just because I don't believe in the premise "you can sin all you want and even stop believing and still be saved" doesnt mean I believe in losable salvation. Go back and read what others have posted. I agree with all of the earlier posts for the most part.
So if you don’t believe salvation is losable, does that mean you believe in OSAS? What is the difference?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#40

To be clear, this thread is not about whether one can lose their salvation or not.