Questions about the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts

onlinebuddy · Sep 7, 2012

People who believe in water baptism love using Acts 2:38 but ALWAYS ignore:
Acts 3:19
Quote:
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
I ask you again...who cleanses your sins? who forgives your sins? who washes away your sins? Jesus Christ!
Water is what John practised.

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We do not ignore Acts 3:19. As I said before, repentance is PART of the process. For example, BELIEF is not written in the above verse. Do we rule out belief? Off course not, because repentance without belief in Christ does not bring forgiveness. Similarly, if you just believe and do not repent, you are nullifying your belief. And it goes without saying that it is Jesus Christ who forgives. So the entire process is Believe+Repent+get water baptized+ continue obeying just as it is mentioned in Acts 2:38.

If we want to know about how to be saved, we cannot pick up a particular verse in isolation. We must put together all verses that talk about salvatiion. Only then will we get the entire plan of salvation. Similarly, if we want to know about baptism, we must put together all the verses that talk about baptism and not refer to the verses in isolation. Therefore half-hearted seekers will not find the truth. Those who seek wholeheartedly will find the plan. (Jer 29:13)

onlinebuddy · Sep 7, 2012

@xino,
I'm done for the day. Will respond to the rest of your post in parts. Sorry, can't respond to your entire post. It has too many details. Good night and God Bless!

Elizabeth619 · Sep 7, 2012

Cobus said:

With all respect that is because you don't seem to understand what the purpose of water baptism is.

Baptism(by water) is the spiritual death to sin, and being "resurrected" as a Child of God.
When a person ia baptized(again, by water) they had their sins washed away. BUT, before one is baptized(by water) they have to accept accountability for their sins. They also have to accept Jesus.

I can't just dunk myself under water, and pop up a Christian. There is no meaning to that. It don't work that way. Unfortunately, that is what some people think we believe when are baptized by water. Which is totally incorrect.

Now, the Holy Spirit Baptism....

While it is a fact that Cornelius did receive a “baptism” of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45; 11:15-16), the key to understanding why Holy Spirit baptism is not being replicated today is to be found in discovering the purpose behind the particular events of Acts 10.

Centuries before the birth of Jesus, the prophet Joel foretold of a time when the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon “all flesh.” The expression “all flesh” obviously is not employed in an unrestricted sense (which would include every human being — or even animals, since they have “flesh&#8221

. Rather, the phrase “all flesh” merely embodies the two major segments of humanity, from that ancient vantage point, i.e., the Jews and the Gentiles.

On the day of Pentecost, Peter quoted Joel’s prophetic declaration (see Acts 2:16ff), thus revealing that the prophecy was beginning to enjoy its fulfillment that very day. Since, however, only the apostles (all of whom were Jews) received this outpouring of the Spirit on that occasion, one must look for a further bestowal of the Spirit to exhaust the scope of Joel’s prediction.

This outpouring of the Holy Spirit is metaphorically designated as a “baptism” (see Mt. 3:11; Acts 1:5; 11:16) because it involved an overwhelming miraculous bestowal of divine power

The final demonstration of “Holy Spirit baptism” occurred when Peter and his Jewish brothers visited the family of Cornelius in the city of Caesarea (Acts 10). The Spirit of God was “poured out” (10:45) on Cornielius, his family, and near friends at that time.
Later, as Peter defended their acceptance of the Gentiles (to the Jewish church) he identified the Caesarean experience with the events that occurred “at the beginning” (i.e., on Pentecost). He further tied the circumstance to John’s prophecy of a “baptism” in the Spirit; he even called it a “like gift” (Acts 11:15-17).
Moreover, the evidence of the Spirit’s endowment was demonstrated similarly. Both the apostles on Pentecost, and the Gentiles during this incident, were empowered to speak with languages they previously had not known (2:4ff; 10:46).

The fact that the apostles received a supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and the further reality that the Gentiles also were given a similar experience a while later, does not mean either of the following:
that the same purpose obtained in both cases; or,
that equivalent authority was bestowed in each instance.
In fact, in each of these cases, a different purpose and scope of authority was manifested by the overwhelming reception of the Holy Spirit.

The purpose for which the apostles received the Spirit on the day of Pentecost was unique. The background of this matter is vividly described in John’s Gospel account. The Lord promised his apostles that they would receive an unparalleled measure of the Spirit’s power to guide them in teaching the gospel in an infallible way.
The Spirit would bring to their memories the things they had learned from the Savior (Jn. 14:26). He would guide them into all truth and declare unto them things to come (Jn. 16:13). The Lord promised they would be able to proclaim his message, unfettered by the need of personal preparation; rather, gospel truth would be “given” to them as they required it (Mt. 10:19-20; cf. Lk. 21:14).
The apostles have no successors today; the gospel message is embodied in the sacred Scriptures of the New Testament. These documents carry the same weight as the messages proclaimed by Christ’s original disciples (cf. Mt. 19:28; 1 Cor. 13:8ff; Eph. 2:20). [Note: For a discussion of Matthew 19:28, as pertaining to the present authority of the apostles of Christ, see McGarvey, 170.]
There is no need today, therefore, for a replication of Holy Spirit baptism, such as was received by the Lord’s apostles.

The baptism of the Spirit at the house of Cornelius was different in design from that received by the apostles (though the manifestation of speaking in foreign languages was the same). There is no evidence that Cornelius had teaching powers analogous to the apostles. Certainly there is no indication that the centurion could lay his hands upon other people, thus imparting to them spiritual gifts, as an apostle could do (see Acts 8:18; 19:6; 2 Tim. 1:6).
The purpose for which Cornelius was granted the Spirit was to demonstrate to the Jews that God was ready for the gospel to be offered to the Gentiles — which circumstance constituted a problem in the thinking of the Hebrews.
This was evidenced by the fact that even Peter initially resisted the idea that the Gentiles could become Christians (Acts 10:14ff), as did the Jews of Jerusalem when they learned of the matter (Acts 11:2-3).
It was the miraculous demonstration of the Spirit upon Cornelius and his associates that turned the tide (cf. Acts 11:4ff; 15:7ff). The effect of this divine documentation of Gentile acceptance remains intact to this very day.
Accordingly, there is no need for a modern, supernatural outpouring of the Spirit to accomplish the same purpose.

xino · Sep 7, 2012

@Elizabeth619

neither do you:/
but it is best to say we all don't fully understand the baptism

can you please explain this death to sin please. Did Jesus die inside water!?
how can water wash away your sins?

listen to this, HUMAN (Flesh) --[Spirit/Soul]
What keeps our body moving? it is not the bones but the Spirit. Through the spirit is what allows us to contact the Spiritual realm. That is how we have Astral Projection or sleep paralyses.
Human body is what we use to interact with the physical world, this Earth.

Now what is sin? imagine sin as a black virus that kills the body. 1 Sin will start spreading like cancer.
But sin is invisible, it does not affect the HUMAN (Flesh). But it affects the [Spirit]. The spirit is inside the body, therefore the sin is damaging the spirit inside the body.

Water cannot wash the spirit.
Please look at Luke 11:33-35
No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light. 34 Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are healthy,[a] your whole body also is full of light. But when they are unhealthy, your body also is full of darkness. 35 See to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness.
What do you think this is?
whatever we look at affects our body. Seriously, when you watch horror movies, the producers of the movie has poured so much evil in the film. It attracts demons from other realm to garner around the movie. So if you are watching that horror movie, you are inviting demons around you. The things you see with your eyes aka Lamp, affects your soul aka spiritual body.

That is why "what comes out of the body, defiles you"
this may be a bizarre teaching to you, but it is what I learnt when I was being saved, also the demon thing was confirmation from Katy Karr.

So the more you watch all these horror, violence, killing, sexual etc movies, the more it taints your spirit, causing blackness in your body. And through this blackness attracts demons to attract your life. And not only that, when the blackness is in your body, you can do things you ought not to do.

Josef, the Austria man who raped her daughter for 21yrs and fathered her 7 children. Said he heard voices in his head and the devil made him do it. First of all, how did all that began?
it all starts with sexual and porn movies that tainted his spirit. When his spirit is complete in darkness, demons will have greater advantage to him and start whispering sin to his heart. By that time, he wouldn't even be in control, he can't stop and he wouldn't even know what he's doing is wrong.
No different to people caught watching child porn. Many know it is wrong but they can't stop the temptation.

Anyway to stay on topic.
How can one, wash away these darkness tainting and sin from the spirit?
water CANNOT do it because water washes the outward body. Water washes the HUMAN (Flesh)

therefore we need Jesus blood aka Lamb of God aka Blood of the Lamb to cleanse those blackness and sin AWAY from our [spirit]
When I talk about Jesus blood, i am not talking about physical red blood.
His blood is spiritual.

Accordingly, there is no need for a modern, supernatural outpouring of the Spirit to accomplish the same purpose.

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saying that means no one today has the holy spirit gift.
but what does 1 corint 12 says!? there are 9 gifts given by the same holy spirit.
we don't HAVE to speak in tongues to confirm we have the holy spirit gifts.
many would have the gift but cannot tell which is the wisdom and understanding.
others can see glow around people which is the distinguishing from spirit to spirit.

Elizabeth619 · Sep 7, 2012

xino, I'm sorry. I just cannot agree with you.

Baptism is the outter expression of inner work. It is the public confession of an inner change.

Buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. (Colossians 2:12)

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3-4)

When a Christian is baptized, he is immersed under water. This act of obedience represents the believer’s burial in the grave or tomb. In baptism we identify with Jesus’ victory over the devil and death. Jesus stripped Satan of all his power (Colossians 2:15). Water baptism symbolizes this victory that Jesus secured for us.

"Baptizo" does mean to immerse, but it doesn't end there. It means to dip into a lquid and take out again. I am sure at this point you are sighing really big and shaking your head, but seriously. Look it up when you have free time. Baptism is immerse, but immersed in to what? Usually means some type of fluid.

As far as the gifts of the Holy Spirit you are correct that there are more gifts than just speaking in tongues, but the bible does say that certain gifts will cease. Tongues is one of them.
The big argument among Christians today is some believe they "died out" in the 1st Century. Others believs they are still active today, and will cease at the coming of Jesus.

Elizabeth619 · Sep 7, 2012

Also, during the time of Noah what did God use to cleanse the world of sin?

I guess you could say that is the 1st baptism

Crossfire · Sep 7, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

The question that we must ask ourselves is this: If God gave believers the gifts of the Spirit to fulfill the great commission then why would He take the gifts away before the great commission has been fulfilled?

I find it ironic how some from certain denominations will argue that God has taken the gifts of the Spirit away yet but refuse to believe that God would the gift of salvation away from anyone.

Elizabeth619 · Sep 7, 2012

Crossfire said:

Do you really want to go this route?

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

First off, Jesus was only talking to the disciples. They are the ones that were given certain powers, and they were the ones that had the "authority" to pass the gifts on. No where in the bible does it say that any other human could pass their gifts on.

Col 1:23- if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Rom 16:26- but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--

MArk 16:20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Looks to me that Paul might have indicated a fulfillment here.

Crossfire · Sep 7, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

If what you are implying is true then feel free to explain why Cornelius and family (all gentiles) were allowed to speak in tongues? (Acts 10:45, 11:15-16)

Also, if only the disciples / apostles were given gifts then please explain how the daughters of Phillip (who was not an apostle himself) were allowed by God to prophecy? (Acts 21:8-9)

Finally, if only the apostles were allowed to operate in the gifts of the Holy Spirit then how would you explain the following verse written by Paul to the Corinthian (gentile) church?

"Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy." - 1 Corinthians 14:1

Elizabeth619 · Sep 8, 2012

Crossfire said:

I never said the apostles were they only ones that had the gifts. I said they were the only ones who had the power to pass them on. As far as what happened in Acts 10, I believe I explained that earlier in this thread. The gentiles recieving tongues was a confirmation that Jesus' salvation was for everyone. Not only the Jews. Also, it doesn't say that all the Gentiles spoke in tongues. It only says "them", not "all"

Paul explicitly states that certain gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease when that which is perfect has come (I Corinthians 13:8,10). The Word of God is called the perfect law of liberty (James 1:25). The perfect has come the Holy Spirit has confirmed it, and the gifts of the Spirit have vanished away.

Crossfire · Sep 8, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

If the Word of God is indeed the perfect referred to in 1st Corinthians 13 then please explain why it took roughly 300 years to determine which "epistles" were indeed divine and collect them into a single volume of literature? Also, if the bible you now hold in your hands is "perfect" then explain the various discrepencies that can be found through out various translation of the bible, english or otherwise?

Scripture is very clear as to what or whom the "perfect" is:

1 Cor. 13: 8-10, 12

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away....12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

1st John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

sorry doesn't make sense to me!
if John's Baptism is of water and Jesus of Prayer. (version 1)
if John's Baptism is of prayer and Jesus of Water (version 2)
if John's Baptism is of prayer and Jesus of Prayer (version 3)

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Sorry, I do not understand the words, "baptism of prayer." In my opinion, there is no baptism of prayer or "baptizo" of prayer, or "baptisma" of prayer, or immersion of prayer. Does not make sense to me. I have beard of "baptismal prayer" or "prayer for baptism" somewhere, but never heard of "baptism of prayer" Nowhere in the Bible is "baptism of prayer" mentioned.

To me, baptism means only one thing: immersion. I know that one can be immersed into anything (obviously). But the word anything has too a wide scope, and we cannot assume whatever we want.The Bible narrows down the concept of Baptism to just water baptism or the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And yes, I've heard of "baptism of suffering" and "baptism of fire, " but these are not suggested to new believers.

Only "baptizo" or "baptisma" or "water baptism" are suggested for the new believer, because these are your actions and they depend on your decision and timing to follow Christ.
On the other hand, baptism of the Holy Spirit does not depend on your action.
You cannot get yourself baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit is up to God.
Water baptism is a human act of obedience, whereas the baptism of the Holy Spirit is an act of divine intervention.

If someone wants to commit themselves to Christ, they can be advised to believe+repent+get baptized.
Water baptism is a "must take" action for everyone who submits to the authority of Christ, whereas he Holy Spirit baptism is up to God.

All said and done about the Holy Spirit baptism not being necessary today, if God baptizes me with the Holy Spirit today, I would consider myself to be most blessed. He works in mysterious ways and obviously talks to his children in this age, in ways everyone does not know. His personal interaction with his children is obviously not open for everyone to see (and there are so many counterfeits today); however, his word is open and available for everyone to read and obey.
Therefore, if someone wants to follow Christ today, the most logical (and biblical) thing to tell him to do would be to believe+repent+get baptized in water as they did in the book of Acts.

BTW, I have decided to go blue

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

Quote:
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
I ask you again...who cleanses your sins? who forgives your sins? who washes away your sins? Jesus Christ!
Water is what John practised.

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Beyond a shadow of doubt, Jesus Christ forgives or washes away sins

What is what John practised, all right.
Water is also what Jesus' disciples practiced

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

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In the above verse, the Pharisees had learned that Jesus (or his disciples) were baptizing more disciples than John.

They compared John's baptism to the baptism that Jesus (or his disciples) gave.
(Off course, the Jews were being baptized, but that's not the point we are discussing here.)
We are discussing about water or not water

Since both baptisms, John's and Jesus' were visible, it is obvious that it was water baptism.
Since Jesus' baptism was compared to John's, it is obvious that it was water baptism.

You cannot use the same word "baptizo" for water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. The greek word for the Holy Spirit is "pneuma" and not baptizo. In this verse the word used is "baptizo" meaning immersion into water.

So in conclusion, both John and Jesus (or his disciples) baptized with water.

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

onlinebuddy said:

Beyond a shadow of doubt, Jesus Christ forgives or washes away sins

What is what John practised, all right.
Water is also what Jesus' disciples practiced

In the above verse, the Pharisees had learned that Jesus (or his disciples) were baptizing more disciples than John.

They compared John's baptism to the baptism that Jesus (or his disciples) gave.
(Off course, the Jews were being baptized, but that's not the point we are discussing here.)
We are discussing about water or not water

Since both baptisms, John's and Jesus' were visible, it is obvious that it was water baptism.
Since Jesus' baptism was compared to John's, it is obvious that it was water baptism.

You cannot use the same word "baptizo" for water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. The greek word for the Holy Spirit is "pneuma" and not baptizo. In this verse the word used is "baptizo" meaning immersion into water.

So in conclusion, both John and Jesus (or his disciples) baptized with water.

Correction:
WATER is what John practised, all right.

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

Here's how the disciples can baptize multitudes:
A person is eligible to get baptized once he believes+repents(2 prerequisites).
Once a person believes repents, he can get baptized.
Once baptized, he is a disciple (which simply means follower) of Christ.
He can now "baptizo" another person who publicly professes to believe in Christ (and repents, off course).
Remember, every Christian can baptize. Baptizo is simple water immersion. It is not the water that saves, but belief+repentance+obedience of getting baptized that saves.

So, one disciple baptized another. The new convert baptized another. In this way it is possible to baptize more than 5k people in a matter of hours.

Note: When it came to passing on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, only the Apostles could do so.
This means that the Apostles could ONLY PASS ON the gifts of the Holy Spirit (such as tongues) by laying of hands.
The Apostles could not give anyone else this power that they had received during Pentecost.
There is no evidence of this in the Bible.

Even if they wanted to, they could not give Simon the sorcerer this power to lay hands!!!!!

This power to lay hands can come only from above.

xino · Sep 8, 2012

onlinebuddy said:

where did you get this from!?
it is your assumption.
if the 5k were now disciples of Christ as you claim, wouldn't the bible say some of the 5k followed Peter and John?
how come bible never talks about 5k baptising others!?

also didn't Matt 28:19 say we should baptise people AND Teaching them!?
how can a believer just baptise another believer without knowing Jesus teachings and commands nor knowing what the Gospel is?

face it, it was either 12 Disciples that were baptising UNDER the name or just Peter and John
ok here is a question which is linked to the purpose of this topic regarding ACts 8:16
if the believers were total of 5k, how come none did not receive the gift of the holy spirit?

also here Acts 2:47
47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
the Lord added to their number daily, therefore new people where becoming believers.

I think you are missing out my dissection, the keyword in all of Acts is -BELIEVE-
Once you believe, you have faith and you put your faith in Jesus, that is how you are baptised through the Word/Gospel. And then Jesus would baptise you himself with Holy Spirit gift.

and here is a question, how does one receive the gift of the holy spirit?
through the word or laying of the hands?

and I think I will agree with Elizabeth on this one about Cornelius family receiving the gift.
The whole purpose of that is to show Peter that the gift of God is not just for the Jews but for Gentiles as well.

and the reason why Simon did sorcerer did not get the holy spirit is because he wanted to use it for money.

only peter could pass it on. Because Jesus gave him the keys.

xino · Sep 8, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

this is where i disagree, because water does nothing. Jesus blood cleanse

i am a proof of it.
I did not get immersed in water and my life has completely changed. I feel clean and new inside.
We are talking about watching porn all the time, constant watching of violence games and movies. When I repented, I just felt brand new. All the stuff I did turned away and it was like yesterday.

people keep saying buried with him in baptism, but it isn't talking about water.
Jesus did not die in water. Read Luke 12:50, that correspond to Colo 2:12

sorry that doesn't make sense to me. How can water be the expression of inner change? ridiculous to my hears. Water cleans the outside therefore it should mean you are starting new. But in reality means nothing because the INSIDE is still not clean for a fact. The inside is your Spiritual body. Spiritual body is what matters NOT the flesh (human body)

assumption! When Jesus say baptise, he isn't talking about water.
LOL..my God. Why can't people get the fact that water Baptism is of John's? So Jesus's grave/tomb was filled with water?
you are using every method to say water baptism is burial which many also love doing.

actually colo 2:16 isn't talking about Jesus defeating satan. It was talking about wages of sin.

opinion...
you agree Baptizo means immerse, yet you instantly changed it to liquid. NO different to saying immersed in water.
Baptizo does not mean water/liquid immersion, it just means immersion. You can be immersed into anything.
You can be immersed into someone's name.

if you still believe baptizo is liquid AKA water immersion.
what does this mean:
1 Corinthians 10:2
They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.

let me hear your thoughts on this.

that is actually talking about and corresponding with 'Love'

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

where did you get this from!?
it is your assumption.
if the 5k were now disciples of Christ as you claim, wouldn't the bible say some of the 5k followed Peter and John?
how come bible never talks about 5k baptising others!?

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Hi Xino,
Hope your day has been good so far.

Let me begin to answer your question with Acts 2.
In Acts 2, about 3000 people were baptized.
How ?
v41 gives us the answer:
Acts 2:41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized : and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

In this verse, they gladly received (accepted and acknowledged) his (Peter's) word (or message).
What was Peter's message and advice to them?
The Ans is in v38:
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
This means that they BELIEVED.
Now it is nowhere written that they repented. However, in v37 they were cut to the heart (or pricked in their heart), meaning that they were convicted by the message. So it is obvious that they repented.
Now what about baptism?
They were obviously baptized (baptizo), as they had received the message of Peter with gladness.
How was it possible to baptize so many people?
The Bible never reveals this.
We can only safely ASSUME (yes, you heard it right).

Case I: There were 120 believers in the upper room. If each of the 120 disciples baptized just 25 disciples, that would make 3000 baptisms. (120x25=3000).
Case II: Nowhere in the Bible is there any qualification for the baptizer. Therefore a baptized believer can become the baptizer and baptize another person who has just come to believe in Jesus and has repented.

So, Who can baptize ?
The person who teaches can baptize (Acts 8: 35-39)
A baptized believer can baptize. Jesus and Paul did not lay any emphasis on who baptized. Jesus' disciples were the ones who baptized. Paul did the teaching, but did not baptize. He did not even mention who baptized.

where did you get this from!?
it is your assumption.
if the 5k were now disciples of Christ as you claim, wouldn't the bible say some of the 5k followed Peter and John?
how come bible never talks about 5k baptising others!?

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The Bible does not tell us everything. However, it tells us what is important i.e. belief+repentance+water baptism

also didn't Matt 28:19 say we should baptise people AND Teaching them!?
how can a believer just baptise another believer without knowing Jesus teachings and commands nor knowing what the Gospel is?

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Mat 28: 18-20 tells us to:
1) Make disciples (=believers=followers)
2) Baptize them
3) Teach them

First of all, in Acts 4, it is mentioned that about 5000 believed.
Peter and John were imprisoned while they were preaching.
Despite the preachers being arrested, the crowd who heard the message believed.
The believers were approximately 5000 in number.
Keeping with the pattern of Acts, they must have been baptized.
The scriptures do not tell us everything.
If at all they were baptized, they were baptized as believers.
So they knew about Jesus and his commands.
They had also shown great faith despite their preachers being arrested.
Therefore in my opinion they were eligible for baptism.

if the believers were total of 5k, how come none did not receive the gift of the holy spirit?

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Where did it say that they did not receive the Holy Spirit?

face it, it was either 12 Disciples that were baptising UNDER the name or just Peter and John
ok here is a question which is linked to the purpose of this topic regarding ACts 8:16
if the believers were total of 5k, how come none did not receive the gift of the holy spirit?

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At pentecost there were 120+ disciples. We don't know how many were present here.
Such a feat would be possible only if more disciples were present.
I don't know the actual facts. I do know that there were about 5000 believers that the scripture acknowledges.
If the situation was the same as in Acts 8:16, I don't know. My original question was about Acts 8:16

also here Acts 2:47
47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
the Lord added to their number daily, therefore new people where becoming believers.

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saved=believed+repented+baptized

I think you are missing out my dissection, the keyword in all of Acts is -BELIEVE-
Once you believe, you have faith and you put your faith in Jesus, that is how you are baptised through the Word/Gospel. And then Jesus would baptise you himself with Holy Spirit gift.

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I appreciate your dissection, and I am hearing you loud and clear about BELIEVE.
However, I beg to differ when you say that "one gets baptized iinto Jesus by believing." or when you say, "one gets baptized into Jesus by repentance" or something to that effect.
Belief, repentance & baptism are three difference steps of the same process. These are dependent on us.
About Jesus baptizing us with the Holy Spirit, I welcome it, but that's up to Jesus.
So I must do my part and let Jesus do his.

and here is a question, how does one receive the gift of the holy spirit?
through the word or laying of the hands?

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Both.
Generally, anyone in any generation can receive the Holy Spirit as a gift by belief+repentance+baptism. This is for self edification and for the edification of others.

Laying of hands can impart the Holy Spirit. But only apostles can lay hands to give someone the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit received by the laying of hands are for a specific purpose and is limited to a specific age.
I believe that the laying of hands by the elders is something different. I have to look into it.

and I think I will agree with Elizabeth on this one about Cornelius family receiving the gift.
The whole purpose of that is to show Peter that the gift of God is not just for the Jews but for Gentiles as well.

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I agree with Elizabeth too

and the reason why Simon did sorcerer did not get the holy spirit is because he wanted to use it for money.

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Simon wanted the apostolic ability to pass on the Holy Spirit by laying of hands. True, that his motives were wrong; but Peter did not have to power to give this ability to anyone. Peter received this ability at Pentecost as a result of the promise of Jesus. This ability can be bestowed only by Jesus.

only peter could pass it on. Because Jesus gave him the keys.

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Peter could pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul could also pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:6-7, 2 Tim 1:6)
No one could pass on the ability-to-pass-on-the-Holy-Spirit (or the ability to pass on the gifts of the Holy Spirit) that Jesus gave the the apostles. Simon the sorcerer wanted this ability, but this ability has to be given from on high.

The keys to the kingdom of heaven (Mt 16:19) are something different.
These keys open up the doors of heaven for anyone.
Heaven is equated with Salvation
So the Keys to the kingdom of heaven=keys to salvation(to be saved)
The keys to salvation are revealed by none other than Peter in Acts 2:38.
The keys are belief+repentance+baptism

Xino, I hope to get back to your dissection after this...when I get some more time.

onlinebuddy · Sep 8, 2012

CORRECTION: If each of the 120 disciples baptized just 25 WILLING BELIEVERS, that would make 3000 baptisms.

xino · Sep 8, 2012

baptising does not only mean water, we will never get past this if you keep thinking of water.
there are 5 ways of baptism in the bible.
Water baptism is John's baptism...lol

baptised in the name means immersed in the name, it is not water

the process of baptism is through repenting!
What does Acts 3:19 says!?

when you believe, you believe the Gospel and you pray and repent. That is how to be baptised spiritually.

yes but baptizo is not water immersion.
how is it possible? by praying and repenting, that is how one is baptised.

once again baptised isn't water immersion. You need to stop thinking about water when baptised is mention

you mean Paul or peter?
if it's Paul, yes he baptised INTO name Acts 19 and 1 Corins 1
If you meant Peter, Peter and John were the ones baptising half the time through out Acts.

water baptism is of John. Bible says we are to be baptised with Jesus baptism

A believer is a follower of Christ but not a student/disciple/Christian. You make disciples on unbelievers.

you do know that baptising is the same as teaching them right? you wash people through the word not water.

how did you get this?
Acts 4:4 says only MEN grew in numbers to 5k as believers

Bible says there is only 1 baptism. 1 spirit, 1 father, 1 church, 1 body.
so this should mean you either baptise them or Jesus baptise them.
But didn't the bible say we should baptise people? this is why we pass on the gift to people through baptism.

i don't get what you mean

why can't we pass on the gift of the holy spirit?
didn't Jesus personally gave the keys to Peter so how did Paul also have the keys? Paul was Saul who killed Christians. If Paul could do it we can.

And Peter can give the HS to anyone he wishes even to Simon but he had money motive.

i will look at this another time and at another discussion

once again assumption. Bible says it was the Disciples that were baptising NOT believers.
Even John the Baptise had his own disciples that were baptising.

you need to be a disciple to baptise, people were just believers.
Disciples are also called Christians.

Questions about the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts

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