Quick question about Romans 1:18-32

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Sharp

Sharp

Senior Member
#1
May 5, 2009
2,565
20
38
#1
I've read a few commentaries.....no answer.

Who is Paul talking about in this passage? Is it the whole unsaved portion of the human race? They are only introduced as 'men' and 'them'.

Or is a specific group being spoken of here?



For kthe wrath of God lis revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be mknown about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, nhave been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they obecame futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 pClaiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for ua lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, vwho is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, ymen committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, zGod gave them up to aa debased mind to do bwhat ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know cGod’s decree that those who practice such things ddeserve to die, they not only do them but egive approval to those who practice them. ​
 
G

greatkraw

Guest
#2
#2
Sharp said:
I've read a few commentaries.....no answer.

Who is Paul talking about in this passage? Is it the whole unsaved portion of the human race? They are only introduced as 'men' and 'them'.

Or is a specific group being spoken of here?



For kthe wrath of God lis revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be mknown about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, nhave been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

people who deny the creator's existence despite the evidenc of the creation

21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they obecame futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 pClaiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

those who embrace evolution in particular - specifically saying that mankind is in the image of the creature rather than the creator

24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for ua lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, vwho is blessed forever! Amen. ​

when you see yourself as an animal with no creator to answer to you will behave like this​

26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, ymen committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. ​

homosexuals in particular - a logical progression​


28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, zGod gave them up to aa debased mind to do bwhat ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know cGod’s decree that those who practice such things ddeserve to die,​

the logical progression continues​

they not only do them but egive approval to those who practice them. ​

finally they encourage others to do the same - they get themselves into positions of influence to facilitate this​
Click to expand...

the inevitable progression when they start off from the premise that there is no creator to answer to
 
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M

machew

Guest
#3
#3
Sharp said:
I've read a few commentaries.....no answer.

Who is Paul talking about in this passage? Is it the whole unsaved portion of the human race? They are only introduced as 'men' and 'them'.

Or is a specific group being spoken of here?

For kthe wrath of God lis revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be mknown about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, nhave been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they obecame futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 pClaiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for ua lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, vwho is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, ymen committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, zGod gave them up to aa debased mind to do bwhat ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know cGod’s decree that those who practice such things ddeserve to die, they not only do them but egive approval to those who practice them. ​
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Sharp:

An important thing to do is to figure out how what Paul wrote above this pertains to these verses. This may help get proper context for this. The verse directly before this says:
17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
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Paul is probably alluding to something in this verse right before he discusses the "ungodliness and unrighteousness of men." You could almost say that he is highlighting the reason why the actions and wickedness listed in this section are being done by this group of people. Do you see it? "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

When reading the letters of Paul you must keep in mind that there were no verses and chapters in the original text, so Romans is meant to be read like a letter, not like a book with chapters and verses and should be read as such. Each thing he says before and after what you are reading is probably very important and related.

It is important to pay attention to Paul's description of this group of people, We can break this down into a list to make it easier to conceptualize:
1. "who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth" (indicates that these people intentionally keep people from discovering the truth)

2. "what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them" (indicates that God clearly showed Himself to them in a way that can't be mistaken)

3. "although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him" (indicates that these people knew God but chose to reject Him anyway)

4. "they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened"

5. "Claiming to be wise, they became fools" (Maybe Pride is an issue?)

6. "exchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things"


Based on this information here are some good questions to ask of the text:

1. What group of people does this describe?

2. Is it possible that Paul reveals whom he is talking about before or after these verses/chapters in this letter?

3. What places does Paul seem to clearly change the subject and what ideas seem completely out of place? Are they really as out of place as they seem?

Interestingly enough in the next chapter at verse 17 he randomly starts talking about the Jews. Is this coincidence, or was he giving the Romans an introduction to the failings of the Jews? This change of subject at verse 17 seems out of place, but keeping in mind that this is a letter that is supposed to flow like a letter. Paul's mention of the Jews in verse 17 is very likely related to everything he said before in chapter 1 and 2 in this letter.

Another thing to note is the conjunction Paul uses to start verse 17 "But." This gives even clearer evidence that the verses before verse 17 are related and that he hasn't completely changed the subject.

In my opinion, it seems like Paul is listing out the mistakes of the Jews (Israel) and warning the Romans not to continue in the same mistakes that they made.

I say "continue" because if you look at this in its cultural context, Paul had many Jews following him around going before and after him into each city teaching his followers that the only way to be saved is to follow Mosaic law(the law given to Moses), which is contrary to Paul's teachings about being saved by Grace. There is sufficient evidence to suggest that these Jews visited Rome to teach that they should reject teachings of the Apostles as from God. It seems to me that Paul is highlighting the mistakes of Israel, so that the Romans can gain perspective on where the Jews that are trying to convert them to Judaism are coming from. He furthermore seems to be showing how their teachings to submit to Mosaic law as their way to God is no longer legitimized by God(because of the New Covenant established by Jesus).


This is a good approach to study the Word of God. Start dissecting phrases and words. Notice what words are used. Notice conjunctions. Notice places that ideas seem to be oddly placed. Note the type of writing you are reading. What is the historical and cultural context? Is this meant to be read like a letter, a psalm, a historical account?

Hopefully this helps!

Blessings,

Machew



 
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VW

VW

Banned
#4
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
#4
Sharp said:
I've read a few commentaries.....no answer.

Who is Paul talking about in this passage? Is it the whole unsaved portion of the human race? They are only introduced as 'men' and 'them'.

Or is a specific group being spoken of here?
Click to expand...
If we look to the final judgment, at the white throne, we find a judgment of everyone who ever lived and did not receive the salvation that is contained in the book of life. In other words, they did not have their name written in Jesus, who is the book of life. They are all thrown into the lake of fire.

1000 years before this, there is another resurrection. These are not subject to the final judgment at the white throne.

The first group includes those of whom Paul us writing. They will not, they refuse, to acknowledge God as God. They simply know of Him, because He is evident in all of creation, and He has been made known to them, but they suppress this knowledge willingly.
 
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