Rapture - Satan's Great Lie

[marrion]

Fourthangel,Just because someone believes in the rapture does not mean they are not willing to die for their faith or that they are looking for an easy exit.it is a privilege to die for Christs sake and I am a rapture believer that would be willing to die for Christ or undergo any other form of persecution for him.i believe he will give those who are suffering and dying and those who will suffer and die for him a special reward in heaven.

 

[ForthAngel]

Fourthangel,Just because someone believes in the rapture does not mean they are not willing to die for their faith or that they are looking for an easy exit.it is a privilege to die for Christs sake and I am a rapture believer that would be willing to die for Christ or undergo any other form of persecution for him.i believe he will give those who are suffering and dying and those who will suffer and die for him a special reward in heaven.

I wasn't really attacking pretibbers. I was just wondering if everyone was aware that there are those dying here and now and trying to give those who hide in their comfy lives a glimpse into the reality of it (me included). Most ignore these things. I just think it's best to prepare for the worst rather than banking on the best possible outcome is all.

 

[marrion]

@fouthangel oh ok.i understand you better now.Thats a great point you make.i was just telling my roommate the other day how weird it feels to see people dying in the hundreds and thousands in Syria yet be in peace in America(how long that will last I don't know).kind of brings to mind the portion of scripture in psalm 91 which talks about a thousand falling at your sie and ten thousand at your right side but no harm befalling you.To be honest I feel blessed when I go through any kind of persecution for Christs sake wether it be on sites like this or while I am witnessing on the streets.somebody told me I was of the devil for sharing my viewpoints on certain scriptures and I felt like I had joined an elite club.iwas sad that a fellow Christian had labeled me this way but happy that I had been persecuted for Christs sake.its funny how CHRISTIANS are quick to label someone as being of the devil when they don't understand where they are coming from.Its the same thing the Pharisees did to Jesus.

 

[letti]

This,is always on my mind God loves all his Children I often wonder if Christians in other parts of the world die and suffer for Christ what makes us to always be exempt from it?That possibility is a true one.Things are changing and only getting worse.We should be ready for anything.

 

[reject-tech]

Only thing that bothers me about various rapture ideas is when they are used as an element of conversion.
But Jesus only talked about it with disciples in private, not the people in general.

When I hear someone preach "if you're not saved, you'll be left behind" to a non-Christian, it bothers me.

 

[marrion]

That's so true letti.Another point to consider is how compassionate our God is.he will not give us more than we can bare.some Christians may not be strong enough to go through certain kinds of persecution and renounce Christ.There may be some who think they can but if and when the time comes they may falter and there may be some who think they cannot but if and when the time comes they are able to withstand it so you and forthangel are right in that we should prepare for anything.

 

[letti]

Yes,marrion that is what I was reminded of during a very difficult time in my life.My dear friend who rests in peace now told me God must feel as though you can bear these trails or God would not allow them.Very true.Some can endure more than others.

 

[Linda70]

For more on this topic check out [h=3]The Smyrnaean Church Age by William Branham[/h]he does a great job explaining what went on at this time and backs up his claim with historical records too.

William Branham was a false prophet! Ever hear of "Serpent Seed"?

Serpent's Seed Teaching

Branham taught that Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3) was sexual sin. According to Branham, Eve was seduced into a sexual relationship with the serpent and became impregnated with her son Cain. He explained, “Here is what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. The Word says that Eve was beguiled by the serpent. She was actually seduced by the serpent. He was as close to being a human that his seed could, and did mingle with that of the woman and cause her to conceive.” (The Original Sin, pp. 2, 3).

Since THREE sons were born from TWO acts of Adam, You know POSITIVELY that ONE of those three WAS NOT the son of Adam - - - The truth of the matter is that eve had two sons in her womb TWO sons (twins) from separate impregnation's. She was carrying twins, with Cain's conception sometime previous to that of Abel's.” (W. M. Branham, An Exposition of The Seven Church Ages, pp. 98, 100-101).

William Branham said that Eve's sin involved sexual relations with the serpent, but the “seed of God” were Branham's followers, otherwise known as “the Bride” or “the New Breed” (The Toronto Blessing, Stephen Sizer, 1990).

The serpent's seed was Cain and all his descendants. They are predestined for Hell. The Godly seed is Seth and his descendants who have been revealed by their call to Branham's ministry. A third group, represented by those still in denominational churches have freewill to choose Heaven or Hell. The Godly seed are the Bride of Christ and will be raptured before Tribulation. Denominations are or eventually will be the Mark of the Beast and those who remain therein will go through the Tribulation. (Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements, p. 96).

“Here is what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. The Word says that Eve was beguiled by the serpent. She was actually seduced by the serpent. He was as close to being a human that his seed could, and did mingle with that of the woman and cause her to conceive” (William Branham, The Original Sin, pp. 2, 3)

“Eve’s eating was adultery with the serpent, Proverbs 30:20. Remember, he was not a snake at this point. That curse came after the act. ... It was not an apple that caused Adam and Eve to realize they were naked. But it was a sex act. ... The serpent was an upright handsome creature. He was, in fact, `the missing link’ that science even in their unspiritual wisdom, can see is missing `between man and monkey.’ ... Satan used this creature to get himself into the Human race.” (Was it an Apple? (Lima, Oh: Bible Believers of Lima).

21-3 The serpent is that missing person between the chimpanzee and the man, 'cause, listen, notice this now, that the serpent was not a reptile. 23-4 What did he do? He begin making love to Eve. And he lived with her as a husband. And she saw it was pleasant, so she went and told her husband; but she was already pregnant by Satan. And she brought forth her first son whose name was Cain, the son of Satan.” Now, this serpent, when he stood there... This great big giant of a fellow stood up there. He was guilty of committing adultery with Adam's wife. Where's sin lay today? What makes things the way they are today?
Go read your Bibles to see if this is how it happened.

27-3 Now, Noah and his sons which come out, Ham, Shem, and Japheth, come out in the righteous line. How did the seed ever get over? The seed come over in the ark, just like it did in the beginning through the woman, their wives. They carried the seed of Satan through the ark, just as Eve packed the seed of Satan to give birth to Cain, through the woman. (William Branham The Serpent's Seed delivered Sunday evening, September 28th 1958 at the Branham Tabernacle in Jeffersonville, Indiana, U.S.A.)

The Bible says, “Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. (Genesis 4:1) He did not say I have gotten a man from Satan, who would know Adam or Branham?

Don't you folks ever check out these "so called" prophets/Bible teachers with the Scriptures? Where are the Biblical Bereans in these last days?

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Serpent Seed (false teaching) is not the only false teaching of William Branham...you will find much more on the link provided in the quote bubble.

 

[nathan3]

actually Christ taught Satan has a seed on this earth. In his parable of the wheat and the tares .I'm convinced many Christians have not even read Christ teachings.

Christians will throw away Christs teachings, but then accept a rapture before the tribulation, and thats not even in the Bible.

everythings backwards. and upside down now adays.

 

[marrion]

I believe William branham was a true prophet.linda70 can you disprove the serpents seed doctrine? have you ever wondered why there is no actual mention of an apple eaten?also can you explain why cain is not mentioned in the geneology of adam? can you also explain why Immediately after EATING the FRUIT (remember that we are the FRUITS of our mother and father), they quickly knew that they were NAKED. And they hid themselves from God and made aprons of fig leaves to cover their NAKEDNESS (Gen. 3:7-8). SURELY this must speak to our understanding that it was SEX, and NOT EATING APPLES (or else Adam and Eve could have made aprons for their mouth rather covering their private parts).

Also take note that after this affair,God did not curse Eve by punishing her with more apples to eat, but said, “Unto the woman He said, I will multiply thy sorrow and thy CONCEPTION; in sorrow thou shalt BRING FORTH CHILDREN, and thy desire shall be to thy husband..” (Gen. 3:16)From that time on when Satan has successfully injected his SEED into mankind, there has always been TWINS warring in the Scriptures. We can see Cain & Abel, Esau and Jacob, Ishmael and Isaac, Moses and Pharaoh, to be the SEED of the WOMAN and the SEED of the SERPENT, having the ENMITY one with the other. if you read the whole Bible it is clear to see one group of people always persecuting another group of people.the devils children are always persecuting Gods children.Look at the following chart and see if the symbols make any sense:

 

[marrion]

linda70 here goes more evidence for serpent seed doctrine.Notice what God said to the SERPENT in the garden. Genesis 3:15, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, It shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise His heel.” If we give credit to the Word that the woman did have a seed, then the serpent must have surely had a SEED also. If the SEED of the woman was a MAN-CHILD apart from the man, then the SEED of the serpent will have to be in the same pattern, and that is another male must be born apart from human male instrumentality. according to I John 3:12, “Cain was of (born of, begotten of) that “Wicked One”,sexual reproduction, was never God’s original plan, because God just speaks His children into existence and they come forth out of the dust, just like the way He created the first man, Adam.thats why SEX is such a great tool for satan today.he has used sex as a tool to send millions if not billions of souls to hell since the beginning of time.ever heard the phrase SEX SELLS?.how many men do you think are going to hell because of forication and adultery.Jesus said if a man LOOKS at a woman to lust after her in his heart he has committed adultery already so it is the devils job to use whatever tool he can to accomplish this and to be honest he is doing a very well at this because most of us are blind.The fashion of this world is a great tool for satan and the invention of the bikini must really have made him very hppy.he was probably the orchestrator of that invention.

 

[Linda70]

marrion....William Branham taught contrary to the Word of God and for that reason I reject what he taught and will continue to believe what the Word of God teaches.

There is a thread on William Branham here

 

[marrion]

God bless you Linda70.i respect your opinion even though I do not agree.William branham backed up all his teachings with the WORD OF GOD.he was even challenged by 300 ministers on many of his doctrines and NONE of them could disprove him by using the word of God.he called them old wineskins that could not receive new wine(revelation)without bursting.I will admit that the serpent seed was one of his hardest doctrines for people to understand although the bible is littered with evidence but he also taught aout the truth on water baptism,the new birth,the seven seals,predestination etc.i am currently studying all his teachings and I am finding that he used scripture to back everything up.however his teachings are not for everyone.people hated him because of his doctrins and teachings on holiness.He stayed with the word on every subject no matter how trivial it would seem and the denominational churches rejected him.but anyway God bless you Linda.i will check out the thread.

 

[PlainWord]

WeStand,

Thanks for your post. I was trying to keep this discuss focused on the Rapture and not go down any side roads with Melchezidek. That is a whole new subject worthy of its own thread. What I mean to say is Christ returns one more time, to reign 1,000 years, to defeat His enemies and then comes the end of this old world as we know it.

However, I am not sure by what you mean when you talk of Christ not coming twice? From my studies Christ/Messiah has already been here 2 times, and in reality, has Never left, as Christ/Messiah IS the ONE left in charge to execute Our Father's Will of Salvation in and through Christ/Messiah

1st; as Melchezidek

 

[PlainWord]

Linda70,

I'm just finding time to read your post #20. God bless you dear but your application of scripture is about as comprehensive and logical as Obama's foreign policy.

The most important single passage dealing with the timing of the Rapture is Revelation 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from [out of] the hour of temptation [testing, trial], which shall come upon all the world, to try [test] them that dwell upon the earth."

As I discussed, "keeping from" and "rapturing away to heaven" are two very different concepts. Assuming the Philly church represents all modern Christian churches/faiths (which is a huge leap) that leaves 6 of 7 churches in harm's way. The Philly church could be killed or protected to be kept from temptation. We have never seen God remove anyone from earth to protect them.

(Isaiah 28:22). It will be a time of great testing for Israel, described by Jeremiah as "the time of Jacob's trouble" (Jeremiah 30:6-7). The Lord Jesus described this time as a unique time of trouble which would be worldwide in scope: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24:21). It will be a time that will involve the terrible plagues and judgments described graphically in Revelation chapters 6-16.

There was no church in OT days hence the church was not discussed. However, Paul teaches in Romans 11 that the Gentile believers will be "Grafted in" with the believing Jews to complete the Olive Tree so anything that applies to end time believing Jews could certainly apply to end time Christians.

In Revelation 12:17 and 14:12, we learn that it is the saints (true believers) who keep God's Word (God's commandments).

These are Christians who enter the Tribulation. These verse prove there is no rapture. Nowhere does it say these are new converts so without that qualification, we have to assume these saints entered the Tribulation. They are on earth to be attacked by Satan's forces and defeated. We then see in Rev 7, the multitudes of believers, dressed in white who were killed and came out of the Great Tribulation.

The same is true of John 8:51: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death." The true believer, the one who has eternal life and who never sees death,

Seriously!! You don't understand Jesus is talking about spiritual death here? Plenty of Christians have kept His word over the past 2,000 years and have died physically.

Revelation 3:10 that they would be kept, not just from the TESTING which would severely test the earth dwellers, but that they would be kept from the HOUR of testing. They would not only be kept from the testing, but they would be kept from the TIME of testing. "I also will keep thee from the hour [TIME] of temptation [testing], which shall come upon all the world, to try [test] them that dwell upon the earth." The only way to be kept from the HOUR of testing is to be removed from the earth before that "hour" commences.

The Lord is more interested in spiritual life than physical life. Your premise is false!! They could be killed before the Beast comes to tempt or they could be part of the group called, "the Woman" in Rev 12:6 which we see God has protected.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. This is the more likely explanation as it fits perfectly with scriptures unlike a massive fly-away-to-heaven Rapture which you can't find anywhere discussed in plain language.

Your WW2 analogy doesn't work. One could escape to Switzerland, Spain or America to flee the Germans. Your John 17 and Col 1 reference mean simply that we are not of this fleshly evil world, we are part of God's kingdom yet we live in this world and are to be witnesses in this world - NOT taken away to heaven to escape all the evil that is here. Neither passage discusses a fly-off to heaven.

He will keep us out of this time by removing us from the earth prior to Daniel's 70th week. This great event is described in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and in several other passages.

Linda, back up and read the few verses before John 14:1-3:

36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."

37 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake."

38 Jesus answered him, "Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times.
Obviously Jesus knew Peter wasn't going to live 2,000 years to be Raptured. Jesus was about to be crucified for the sins of the world so that if you believe on him you can be saved. It was the Lord's sacrifice on the cross that "prepared" the way to heaven. The Lord was then resurrected and ascended to heaven so that he would be in heaven to accept those who die in him from then on. "But you shall follow me afterward" proves the context. Peter would follow the Lord to heaven after being crucified upside down.

You have not provided a passage that shows any living Christian being taken to heaven. You made an argument that SOME may be spared the "Hour of Temptation" which assumes this is end time, Trib era, Beast temptation and that one church represents us all. But you failed to show us being taken to heaven. You assume the Church of Philadelphia represents end time Christians which is a BIG assumption and likely false.

Look back a few verses in Rev 3 and we see this for the church of Sardis. It sure sounds like Sardis is around at the end times as we have the instruction to WATCH and that the Lord will come upon them as a thief.

3...Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Look what is said about the other churches:

22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
25 But hold fast what you have till I come.

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations--

27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
So clearly, the Church of Philadelphia is NOT the only church seen in the end days.

 

[BeanieD]

The word "rapture simply means "taken away".

 

[PlainWord]

The five wise virgins go into the rapture with the bridegroom while the five foolish virgins are left behind to go through the tribulation.The baptism of the holy spirit is the oil that is needed to make the rapture.This is what enables us to live holy and obedient to Gods commands and stay unspotted from the world.i don't understand why Christians don't believe in the rapture.The tribulation is going to be a time of great torment and many Christians will renounce their faith in Christ because of the torment they will be under.This is why it is important to not be in a lukewarm state when Jesus comes to snatch his bride away.There are many raptures in the Bible,enoch,elijah,Jesus,the saints which came out of the graves at Jesus death.Youtube is flooded with rapture dream/vision testimonies along with many other holy spirit inspired testimonies fulfilling joel 2:28.The two witnesses that go to Israel will also be raptured after their work is done in Israel.its almost like some Christians don't even want their to be a rapture because they want to earn and deserve heaven by going through torment when Jesus already did this for us.The church will go through the tribulation but not the bride.

You are confusing Rapture with Resurrection. Jesus, the saints that awoke when Jesus arose, the 2 witness all were resurrected, not Raptured. Rapture implies those alive who are taken directly to heaven without dying first. Only two examples of that we see with Enoch and Elijah.

 

[PlainWord]

The rapture takes place Mid trib, pre wrath.

You have to really study Revelation and have a deep knowledge of the Bible to understand that the Lord returns at the very end of the Tribulation. The 7 bowls or vials are poured out prior to the 7th trumpet. The Lord returns at the 7th trumpet for Armageddon. The wrath of God is/are the 7 bowls poured out against the Beast and His kingdom.

You have Satan's wrath and God's wrath present during the Tribulation.

 

[PlainWord]

Marrion,

You have listed a couple of Paul's scriptures but you left out the one that actually gives the timing. 2 Thes 2:

although there is no mention of the word 'RAPTURE' in the bible there are definitely types and symbols pointing to a rapture as well as clear scripture(I THESSALONIANS 4:16-18,I CORINTHIANS 15:51-54,I THESSALONIANS 5:1-11)

You can't cite 1 Thes 4 and 1 Cor 15 without citing 2 Thes 2 because they all go together. This is where most Pre-Tribbers make their mistake. They take passages that don't mention timing and attribute them to a Pre-Trib rapture. They then take all passages where the timing is mentioned and associate them with the 2nd advent of Christ. The fact is ALL these passages deal with 2nd Advent Return of Christ which is the Day of the Lord which happens at the 7th or Last Trump.

Paul wrote 2 Thes 2 SPECIFICALLY to address the concerns of the Thessalonians who thought the Lord had already come because of Paul's supposed "immanency" doctrine of 1 Thes 4. So Paul wrote his second letter to clear the timing up.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

Do you see how clear Paul is? I want you all to really understand this. Paul makes CRYSTAL clear that he was extending his remarks from his earlier letter to include the timing which he did not give in 1 Thes 4. If Paul had taught an earlier Rapture, he would have needed to qualify WHICH return he was discussing above. The same goes with Jesus in the Olivet Discourse. If the Rapture was an actually teaching you would expect to find and really need to see a distinction made whenever either event was being discussed. But since no distinction of two returns is ever made, one must conclude that there is only ONE RETURN OF CHRIST.

ONE RETURN OF CHRIST is consistent will ALL BIBLICAL passages. An early Rapture BEFORE the Tribulation conflicts with multiple passages such as Mat 24, Psalm 110, 2 Thes 2, John 15:15, and Rev 19 to name a few. For the Lord never taught a Rapture. John teaches only the Lord returning for Armageddon and Paul teaches a return AFTER the Anti-Christ is revealed.

The Rapture doctrine is a tradition of Man and I would argue Satan. Because this teaching is false and widespread, the devil will use it to his advantage when he comes.

 

[marrion]

Good point plainword but I believe the following scripture shows that both a resurrection and rapture can take place in that order.I THESSALONIANS 4:16-18:
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
As you can clearly see,the dead in Christ are resurrected FIRST and THEN RAPTURED.i don't believe the rapture describes an event that includes only people that have never died.Jesus himself died,rose again and was raptured.i don't think this particular intricate detail is a crucial part of ones salvation.Just like discussing the word of God.