Rapture timing matters?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
211
43
#81
I cannot. If we should make our answers "yes,yes, or no,no, then our stance on the Word should reflect that.
Even though I like these folks who are are on both sided of the Op, I do not agree with their stance, for it deviates away from their examples, ruining their testimony.
Well-correct them -and me-it is your right, not so?
J.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,282
1,986
113
#82
Maybe I am too simple, but I see it clearly.
...
So many times they ended up showing me truth because they can study the Bible all day every day. I don't have that luxury because I work for a living.

I guess I should have discounted anything they said to me because they didn't have any degrees in the Bible.
I'm not sure what you mean, or why you are mentioning anything about people having [or not having] "any degrees in the Bible."

I may be mistaking what you're saying here (or, why), but I want to make clear that in my post I made no reference to such.




My endeavor was to "compare scripture with scripture" (and show that). I find that fairly "simple". :)
 
C

Chaplain_Sam456

Guest
#83
I cannot. If we should make our answers "yes,yes, or no,no, then our stance on the Word should reflect that.
Even though I like these folks who are are on both sided of the Op, I do not agree with their stance, for it deviates away from their examples, ruining their testimony.
I desire we could all discuss these things in love as fellow partakers of the divine nature.
 
C

Chaplain_Sam456

Guest
#84
I'm not sure what you mean, or why you are mentioning anything about people having [or not having] "any degrees in the Bible."

I may be mistaking what you're saying here (or, why), but I want to make clear that in my post I made no reference to such.




My endeavor was to "compare scripture with scripture" (and show that). I find that fairly "simple". :)
Just saying you could answer personally instead of copying and pasting predetermined (scholarly) answers.
 
C

Chaplain_Sam456

Guest
#85
Well-correct them -and me-it is your right, not so?
J.
Wouldn't it be great to learn from each other?

I don't have all the answers, but some things should be plain for all of us to see.
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
211
43
#88
Wouldn't it be great to learn from each other?

I don't have all the answers, but some things should be plain for all of us to see.
Same here-I don't have all the answers-but I think you have hurt @GRACE_ambassador -

Jas 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Jas 3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
Jas 3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Jas 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Jas 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Jas 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

J.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,363
543
113
#89
Well-correct them -and me-it is your right, not so?
J.
Yes, I am my brother's keeper. But haven't you seen how many won't receive neither instruction or rebuke?
Remember when Paul rebuked Peter? Peter received it. Paul didn't rebuke many, for he knew who would receive it.:)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,435
4,098
113
#90
The bowls of judgment described in Revelation 15 and 16 are not explicitly referred to as the wrath of God being poured out. Rather, they represent the final acts of judgment prior to the establishment of God's kingdom on Earth. While the wrath of God is present in these chapters, it is not the focus. The primary emphasis is on the complete and final defeat of Satan and his forces, leading to the restoration of creation and the inauguration of the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21:1).
To understand the distinction between the bowls of judgment and the wrath of God, it helps to examine the broader context of the book of Revelation and the biblical themes related to the wrath of God. The wrath of God is presented as a response to sin and rebellion, particularly in the Old Testament, where it is associated with God's covenantal dealings with Israel (Exod. 32:10; Deut. 9:14; Rom. 1:18)

. In contrast, the bowls of judgment in Revelation are part of the eschaton—the culminating events of history—where God establishes his reign and defeats the powers of darkness once and for all

Therefore, while the bowls of judgment involve aspects of God's wrath, they are not identical to the wrath of God being poured out. They are part of the larger narrative of God's plan for creation, which ultimately ends in victory and renewal.

J.

Revelation 16:1


16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”

YES they are.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,282
1,986
113
#91
Just saying you could answer personally instead of copying and pasting predetermined (scholarly) answers.
Everything I put in my post was typed-out by hand, by me, and is MY words / MY explanation.

I believe that's the case for ALL of the posts I've placed in this thread (if memory serves).






[if I ever use someone else's work, I post the links to those... But I do not recall using any others' articles HERE in this thread. ALL of it has been typed up by my own hand, using my own explanations. I was under the impression that you've been reading them thus far, and acknowledging my words that I've typed here are FROM ME. lol NONE OF MY POSTS HERE have been "COPY AND PASTE"!! (And it is HARD WORK coz I'm a VERY SLOW TYPIST! :D )]
 

Johann

Active member
Apr 12, 2022
928
211
43
#92
Revelation 16:1


16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”

YES they are.
Oh OK-no problemo
J.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,634
13,031
113
#93
2 Thessalonians 2 says 2 events preceed the Rapture.
Actually the problem arises because the KJB has "the day of Christ" whereas all the other translations have "the day of the Lord (which corresponds to the OT "the day of the LORD"). The day of Christ pertains to the Rapture whereas the day of the Lord pertains to the future period of divine judgments.

So this passage is saying that the Man of Sin will be revealed followed by the day of the Lord (the Tribulation period) . It has nothing to do with the Rapture, yet the Thessalonians were aware that the Rapture would be well ahead of the day of the Lord. But someone was telling them that the day of the Lord had already occurred and this was bothering them. The focus of 2 Thess 2 is the reign of the Antichrist which will come AFTER the Rapture but BEFORE the day of the Lord.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,993
1,418
113
Midwest
#94
Same here-I don't have all the answers-but I think you have hurt @GRACE_ambassador -
Thanks, precious friend, I appreciate it. I know I am still learning.

May you Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In The Lord Jesus Christ,
And In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided.

Grace And Peace.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,078
637
113
#96
I can't believe my eyes... there's some on here putting their 'likes' on both sides of the Op.
It makes me think that the modern church is in worse shape than I thought.
Come quickly Lord Jesus!
That's better than those putting hate on one side or the other of the op
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,078
637
113
#97
I cannot. If we should make our answers "yes,yes, or no,no, then our stance on the Word should reflect that.
Even though I like these folks who are are on both sided of the Op, I do not agree with their stance, for it deviates away from their examples, ruining their testimony.
Perhaps they are wise enough to know that being human they could be wrong, and are acknowledging reasonable arguments against their understanding.

Truth is only available to those who are willing to question what they think they know.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,078
637
113
#98
2 Thessalonians 2 says 2 events preceed the Rapture.
It's funny (but sad) that everyone knows about the 'antichrist', but few know about the apostasy. Paul put them on an equal footing.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
870
323
63
Pennsylvania
#99
2 Thess2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him,

we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

Meaning the Day of the Lord in which we seek cannot happen till after he takes his seat in the temple. Has to be after the middle lof the 7 (years)--This is literal but few believe it.

Then you want to say the Restrainer is the H S. How Foolish. It's the saints
 
C

Chaplain_Sam456

Guest
Actually the problem arises because the KJB has "the day of Christ" whereas all the other translations have "the day of the Lord (which corresponds to the OT "the day of the LORD"). The day of Christ pertains to the Rapture whereas the day of the Lord pertains to the future period of divine judgments.

So this passage is saying that the Man of Sin will be revealed followed by the day of the Lord (the Tribulation period) . It has nothing to do with the Rapture, yet the Thessalonians were aware that the Rapture would be well ahead of the day of the Lord. But someone was telling them that the day of the Lord had already occurred and this was bothering them. The focus of 2 Thess 2 is the reign of the Antichrist which will come AFTER the Rapture but BEFORE the day of the Lord.
The Day of the Lord (God's wrath) comes like a thief in the night, just like the rapture. That is because the rapture happens on the same day as the wrath begins. The Saints go up and the wrath comes down. The only thing between the rapture and the wrath is the Seventh Seal of 30 minutes. That is why Scripture always refers to the Day of the Lord's wrath and the rapture with the same term "like a thief in the night." Only the believers will not be surprised and will be expecting it. The unbelievers who are taking the Mark and being promised "peace and safety" by the Antichrist will be the ones totally taken off guard.