Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

[Jackson123]

Yes. And that's what it means "The Lord cometh with 10000 of his saints" or what Paul meant by:

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

To me this is these verse mean

11...we (apostle) that live are deliver to death

Mean people won't to kill Paul, but life in you

Mean but you life, or save

So Paul willing to preach the gospel and die so you that hear the gospel accept Jesus will life.

Not that the spirit of Paul life in us.




12 so death work in apostle mean people may kill apostle

 

[Noose]

11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

To me this is these verse mean

11...we (apostle) that live are deliver to death

Mean people won't to kill Paul, but life in you

Mean but you life, or save

So Paul willing to preach the gospel and die so you that hear the gospel accept Jesus will life.

Not that the spirit of Paul life in us.




12 so death work in apostle mean people may kill apostle

But he clearly says his death if for the benefit of his listeners including you and i.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Q. How does Paul's death benefit his listeners?

 

[JohnR7]

If by rapture you mean a disappearance of all believers to heaven at some chronological point in time before the visible second coming of Christ to judge the nations as described in Matthew 24 and Revelation 19, correct. Such an event simply does not exist.

The word "rapture" is the caught up in 1Thes4:17 "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

 

[CS1]

Nice try but nope.

1stly, rapturists is a word i use to identify all those that believe in this doctrine, so don't get offended.

2ndly, all rapturists believe there's resurrection for the dead alright but when? they believe it is a mega one time event in future towards the end of age.
Well, Paul is talking to the 1st century people and asking them that question. He seems to suggest that 'resurrection is now' for he asks, "..what will they do those that are being baptized for the dead (now- 1st century)..", Paul is not asking for 21st century people or people towards the end of age when rapture happens who will be baptizing for the dead.

If resurrection and rapture only happens at the end of age, then Paul is wasting time talking to the 1st century people asking them useless question that has nothing to do with them and their practices.

3rdly, Baptizing for the dead is not baptizing on behalf of the dead.

please get over yourself No one is offended LOL. I must say I do not see that in your text you used to explain this point.

 

[Jackson123]

But he clearly says his death if for the benefit of his listeners including you and threat. He did it so the listener hear the gospel and save.





13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Q. How does Paul's death benefit his listeners?

During His ministry Paul experience persecution and threat.He did it so the listener hear the gospel and save.

But it doesn't mean his spirit dwell in people that baptized use his
Name

 

[Noose]

During His ministry Paul experience persecution and threat.He did it so the listener hear the gospel and save.

But it doesn't mean his spirit dwell in people that baptized use his
Name

His listeners would hear him more if he didn't die so that he continues teaching and preaching right? but Paul said this:

2 Cor 4:12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

Not that his listeners did not face threats and persecution during that time, they also faced persecution.

 

[cv5]

Do you even know what 'baptism for the dead' means? Can you give examples.

And this is exactly what i'm talking about, if your ideas and theories around resurrection have no clue of what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 15:29, how sure are you about these ideas?

There are no examples. The fact is that when comparing scripture with scripture it is clear that this is not doctrine. Therefore the most simple answer is quite acceptable. The cults always blow it when they see something like this.

 

[Noose]

There are no examples. The fact is that when comparing scripture with scripture it is clear that this is not doctrine. Therefore the most simple answer is quite acceptable. The cults always blow it when they see something like this.

1. (2 Tim 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, ....

Which means you can not toss out some scriptures because they have no examples.

2. The practice itself was an example that Paul used to explain resurrection, why do you want an example of an example.
Now, if you can't use the same example to explain your ideas on resurrection like Paul did, then your ideas are not in line with what Paul taught.

Makes it very easy for me to conclude that rapture is not scriptural if it was, you should be able to explain it using baptism for the dead.

 

[Jackson123]

His listeners would hear him more if he didn't die so that he continues teaching and preaching right? but Paul said this:

2 Cor 4:12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

Not that his listeners did not face threats and persecution during that time, they also faced persecution.

1. If he continue life till now, are you guarantee there will becmore listener? I am not sure. He die but people read his teaching. Also if he live now, he is 2000 years old. Time for him retired and enjoy peace life with the Lord.

2. Some of the listener also experience persecution, but a lot of the new listener aren't. We are his listener when we read his teaching from the bible

 

[Noose]

1. If he continue life till now, are you guarantee there will becmore listener? I am not sure. He die but people read his teaching. Also if he live now, he is 2000 years old. Time for him retired and enjoy peace life with the Lord.

2. Some of the listener also experience persecution, but a lot of the new listener aren't. We are his listener when we read his teaching from the bible

Yes we are his listeners when we read his teachings.