Remember Lot's Wife

[posthuman]

Look at the scenario. What was Lot's wife doing? She had to be kicked in the butt to get her breathing at the start. She did not want to leave..She was lagging behind when God told them to get out fast. Did she? No. Why not? Do you think God would punish her if she got curious? Curiosity is natural response that God programmed into us. Read deeper.

Actually,

It is Lot who hesitated ((Genesis 19:15-16)), who did not want to flee from the city when he was told to, and Lot who did not want to flee from the valley when told to ((vv. 18-20)), and Lot who did not want the angels to stay in the city square when they expressed their intention ((vv. 2-3)).
All we are told about Lot's wife is that from behind him, she looked, and became an emplacement of salt ((v. 26)).
Nothing is said about her intentions and thoughts, and nothing is said about any other action she took.

Before we can "read deeper" we need to be able to "read."

It is because of Abraham that God preserved Lot ((Genesis 19:29)).
Lot hesitated, and so the ones sent from God took him by the hand and dragged him out of the city.
Lot balked at fleeing to the mountains, and so Zoar, the nearby city he chose was preserved.
Lot went to his sons-in-law, but they though he was kidding ((v. 14)).

His wife and daughters evidently did not think he was kidding.

Why were they saved?

Why did Lot hesitate? Why did he go against the will of the angels so much? Why wasn't Lot turned into a salt emplacement? Was it because after disagreeing with the angels, after arguing with their commands and hesitating and being dragged out of the city not by his own volition, he finally started walking to the nearby city he liked, instead of the mountains he had been commanded to go to? That was enough to keep him from being 'preserved' in salt?

Or was he actually preserved in a different sort of salt?

Of course, weren't these things because of God's compassion, as the scripture says ((vv. 16, 29))? Why did God continue to show compassion to Lot? Did God cease to show compassion to Lot's wife, or is what He did to her also an act of compassion?

 

[Bookends]

Actually,

It is Lot who hesitated ((Genesis 19:15-16)), who did not want to flee from the city when he was told to, and Lot who did not want to flee from the valley when told to ((vv. 18-20)), and Lot who did not want the angels to stay in the city square when they expressed their intention ((vv. 2-3)).
All we are told about Lot's wife is that from behind him, she looked, and became an emplacement of salt ((v. 26)).
Nothing is said about her intentions and thoughts, and nothing is said about any other action she took.

Before we can "read deeper" we need to be able to "read."

It is because of Abraham that God preserved Lot ((Genesis 19:29)).
Lot hesitated, and so the ones sent from God took him by the hand and dragged him out of the city.
Lot balked at fleeing to the mountains, and so Zoar, the nearby city he chose was preserved.
Lot went to his sons-in-law, but they though he was kidding ((v. 14)).

His wife and daughters evidently did not think he was kidding.

Why were they saved?

Why did Lot hesitate? Why did he go against the will of the angels so much? Why wasn't Lot turned into a salt emplacement? Was it because after disagreeing with the angels, after arguing with their commands and hesitating and being dragged out of the city not by his own volition, he finally started walking to the nearby city he liked, instead of the mountains he had been commanded to go to? That was enough to keep him from being 'preserved' in salt?

Or was he actually preserved in a different sort of salt?

Of course, weren't these things because of God's compassion, as the scripture says ((vv. 16, 29))? Why did God continue to show compassion to Lot? Did God cease to show compassion to Lot's wife, or is what He did to her also an act of compassion?

Interesting points. The "what ifs" and "could bes" are many. After re-reading the story of Lot, I'm grateful I'm not saved on my own merit, but Christ's righteousness is applied to me.

 

[samuel23]

It would be kind of hard to make the case that the wife of Lot looked back because she was missing the good life of pleasures that she had left behind. Consider, when Lot parted company with Abraham he was very rich and in charge of many men, he had all kinds of livestock, when the angels found him in Sodom he was apparently an outcast among the people and lived in a house with his wife and two girls. The Sodomites called Lot a stranger, his wife had lived through being the wife of a very wealthy man to living in a town of perverts that counted them as strangers...there was nothing in Sodom that would have been pleasurable to the wife of Lot that would have made her want to return. Sometimes when God gives a command it is do it or die, that was one of those times. It is quite possible that in a second of weakness she simply gave in to impulse to see what was happening...and died for that error. Just my opinion, but I do not feel comfortable making the wife of Lot into an evil minded woman wishing to live in sin when the biblical evidence does not support that idea.

 

[Denadii]

It would be kind of hard to make the case that the wife of Lot looked back because she was missing the good life of pleasures that she had left behind. Consider, when Lot parted company with Abraham he was very rich and in charge of many men, he had all kinds of livestock, when the angels found him in Sodom he was apparently an outcast among the people and lived in a house with his wife and two girls. The Sodomites called Lot a stranger, his wife had lived through being the wife of a very wealthy man to living in a town of perverts that counted them as strangers...there was nothing in Sodom that would have been pleasurable to the wife of Lot that would have made her want to return. Sometimes when God gives a command it is do it or die, that was one of those times. It is quite possible that in a second of weakness she simply gave in to impulse to see what was happening...and died for that error. Just my opinion, but I do not feel comfortable making the wife of Lot into an evil minded woman wishing to live in sin when the biblical evidence does not support that idea.

Well Samuel I guess you'll have to figure it out because you just know that God wouldn't kill her for displaying a trait he programmed into his humans

 

[Depleted]

Actually,

It is Lot who hesitated ((Genesis 19:15-16)), who did not want to flee from the city when he was told to, and Lot who did not want to flee from the valley when told to ((vv. 18-20)), and Lot who did not want the angels to stay in the city square when they expressed their intention ((vv. 2-3)).
All we are told about Lot's wife is that from behind him, she looked, and became an emplacement of salt ((v. 26)).
Nothing is said about her intentions and thoughts, and nothing is said about any other action she took.

Before we can "read deeper" we need to be able to "read."

It is because of Abraham that God preserved Lot ((Genesis 19:29)).
Lot hesitated, and so the ones sent from God took him by the hand and dragged him out of the city.
Lot balked at fleeing to the mountains, and so Zoar, the nearby city he chose was preserved.
Lot went to his sons-in-law, but they though he was kidding ((v. 14)).

His wife and daughters evidently did not think he was kidding.

Why were they saved?

Why did Lot hesitate? Why did he go against the will of the angels so much? Why wasn't Lot turned into a salt emplacement? Was it because after disagreeing with the angels, after arguing with their commands and hesitating and being dragged out of the city not by his own volition, he finally started walking to the nearby city he liked, instead of the mountains he had been commanded to go to? That was enough to keep him from being 'preserved' in salt?

Or was he actually preserved in a different sort of salt?

Of course, weren't these things because of God's compassion, as the scripture says ((vv. 16, 29))? Why did God continue to show compassion to Lot? Did God cease to show compassion to Lot's wife, or is what He did to her also an act of compassion?

When the Lord killed those thousands of Israelites (more than once) in the wilderness, it was wrath. When he killed anyone -- NT or OT, it was wrath. Why do you think killing Mrs. Lot wasn't wrath?

 

[Denadii]

When the Lord killed those thousands of Israelites (more than once) in the wilderness, it was wrath. When he killed anyone -- NT or OT, it was wrath. Why do you think killing Mrs. Lot wasn't wrath?

Ok What made Him so wrathful? Was it a trait he installed in Lots wife. What a hypocrite He must be!

YOu're saying that when God ordered the Israelites to kill man woman children and livestock it was because of wrath? NOT!

 

[posthuman]

The fact it is all about repentance eludes you because you believe in predestination and election.

o i think i get it:

it must be really hard for a person who hates divine election and God's sovereign choice in predestination to stomach the fact that the angels took Lot and his family by the hand when he hesitated.
i suppose a person with such an attitude would much rather prefer that the scripture said they presented him with a free will choice and that he chose out of his own agency to leave, at a time of his own choosing.
((but that's not what happened -- the 'choice' Lot made was to live in Sodom in the first place, commenting strongly on the nature and outcome of most of our own free-will choices))

what do you see as the implications of that?

((remembering that Jesus says to remember Lot's wife in the context of answering questions about when the end of the age will come & what the sign of its coming will be))

 

[lastofall]

"No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

 

[posthuman]

Lot's wife

is a bride taken by the hand and removed from a place to be judged & receive God's wrath.

she was removed for the sake of the bridegroom whom God's compassion was upon, hesitation notwithstanding. removed because of God's compassion






Jesus commands that she be remembered in the context of answering 3 questions about when the end of the age of the gentiles, and the judgement of the whole world, will occur.
this is the context in which He says this, and this is therefore the context in which this command must be understood.

there is something specific to Lot's wife that must be remembered, specific to the end of the age and the judgement.

 

[Denadii]

Lot's wife

is a bride taken by the hand and removed from a place to be judged & receive God's wrath.

she was removed for the sake of the bridegroom whom God's compassion was upon, hesitation notwithstanding. removed because of God's compassion






Jesus commands that she be remembered in the context of answering 3 questions about when the end of the age of the gentiles, and the judgement of the whole world, will occur.
this is the context in which He says this, and this is therefore the context in which this command must be understood.

there is something specific to Lot's wife that must be remembered, specific to the end of the age and the judgement.

Why do you think this?

 

[dcontroversal]

Lot's wife

is a bride taken by the hand and removed from a place to be judged & receive God's wrath.

she was removed for the sake of the bridegroom whom God's compassion was upon, hesitation notwithstanding. removed because of God's compassion






Jesus commands that she be remembered in the context of answering 3 questions about when the end of the age of the gentiles, and the judgement of the whole world, will occur.
this is the context in which He says this, and this is therefore the context in which this command must be understood.

there is something specific to Lot's wife that must be remembered, specific to the end of the age and the judgement.

Sure....don't look back and run for your life.......flee to them there hills <---good "SUTHERN" ENGLISH.....

 

[posthuman]

Sure....don't look back and run for your life.......flee to them there hills <---good "SUTHERN" ENGLISH.....

Lot said, don wanna go to them hills yonder: it's too far a piece.

and that was cool with the angels.

 

[posthuman]

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'repent or else' then there are billions of other examples He could have used. Sodom itself, for instance.

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'don't look at what you shouldn't look at' then why not Ham? why not Achan? why not Belshazzar? why not Samson? Uzzah? David? Eve?

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'obey God's commands to the letter' why not Lot himself? why not Nadab & Abihu? why not Moses?

did Jesus carelessly pick a random example of some ubiquitous principle that goes without saying?
or did He say something perfectly profound at exactly the right time in exactly the right way?
does Christ say shallow things or deep things?

He's answering three questions about the end of days.
what does this have to do with that?
which question does "Remember Lot's wife" answer perfectly?

 

[posthuman]

Why do you think this?

why do i think what?

that Jesus meant to say what He said?
that He meant to say specifically what He said and that He said exactly what He said for a perfect purpose in just the right way at just the right time?

because He's God & God doesn't shoot arrows at random. God knows exactly what He's doing and does exactly what He means to do.

((duh?))

 

[posthuman]

. . and she became a pillar of salt.
(Genesis 19:26)

By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light
(Exodus 13:21)

James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars
(Galatians 2:9)
​

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

what is the Biblical significance of the word "pillar" ?

Biblically, is it a 'good' symbol or a 'bad' one?
are pillars associated with strength or with weakness? evil or blessing? power or weakness?

 

[posthuman]

. . and she became a pillar of salt.
(Genesis 19:26)

By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light
(Exodus 13:21)

James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars
(Galatians 2:9)
​

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

what is the Biblical significance of the word "pillar" ?

Biblically, is it a 'good' symbol or a 'bad' one?
are pillars associated with strength or with weakness? evil or blessing? power or weakness?

"salt"

same question?

 

[Enow]

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'repent or else' then there are billions of other examples He could have used. Sodom itself, for instance.

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'don't look at what you shouldn't look at' then why not Ham? why not Achan? why not Belshazzar? why not Samson? Uzzah? David? Eve?

if the reason to remember Lot's wife is 'obey God's commands to the letter' why not Lot himself? why not Nadab & Abihu? why not Moses?

did Jesus carelessly pick a random example of some ubiquitous principle that goes without saying?
or did He say something perfectly profound at exactly the right time in exactly the right way?
does Christ say shallow things or deep things?

He's answering three questions about the end of days.
what does this have to do with that?
which question does "Remember Lot's wife" answer perfectly?

The verse that followed is why Jesus was prompting hearers and readers to be aware of in remembering Lot's wife.

Luke 17:[SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP] 31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP] 32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP] 33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Lot's wife loved her life in Sodom; she wasn't just looking back; she was going back to her house to save what she had gained out of that life. Note verse 31 testifying against her by Jesus Who knew.

 

[posthuman]

Lot's wife loved her life in Sodom; she wasn't just looking back; she was going back to her house to save what she had gained out of that life. Note verse 31 testifying against her by Jesus Who knew.

v. 31 isn't necessarily talking about Lot's wife - though yes, 99% of us were told that in sunday-school, and have never looked at it in any deeper way.

use that same logic of juxtaposition: is v.33 talking about her?
did she seek to save her life, or did she lose it?
was she preserved, or lost?
((what is salt famously used for??))
after witnessing the angels blind the city's men, and being taken by their hands out of the city, was she so stupid to think that she would be 'fine' if she went back? did she turn back because she lusted for the ice-cream she had left in the freezer?

saying she was going back for her jewelry case or her playstation 4 or her iphone, and saying that she wanted to go and grab her pretty little black dress or that she wanted to hop back into the Sodom pub for a quick round of shots first, is an inference ((that yes, 99% of every sermon you have ever heard on the subject has emphatically stated as fact and has never delved deeper into)) - an inference that ignores the fact she was turned into a pillar of salt.

she is a symbol: Christ refers to her as though she is a sign.
to rightly interpret the sign, don't we need to understand what "pillar" is symbolically, and what "salt" is symbolically in the Bible?
but the simplistic explanation that 'she coveted her flowerpots so God removed His mercy from her instantly because of one quick glance over the shoulder' -- what does that have to do with being changed into a prominent sign as a pillar, as salt? isn't that capricious? why wasn't God's mercy removed from Lot himself when again and again he argued with the angels, and hesitated to leave?
why did Lot hesitate?
same reason?
then aren't you calling God capricious?
however true the wisdom of the adage is, that simple 'never look back' explanation fails to address any of this.

Lot's sons-in-law disbelieved and preferred to stay in the city with their own "stuff"
why didn't Jesus say, "remember Lot's sons-in-law" ???

 

[posthuman]

what would a mother be willing to give up her life for? to willingly commit suicide ((as it were)) in order to spend a last few moments with?

a blender?
some really nice curtains?
a little black dress?
a tea party with the Sodom book club?

Then he said,
“Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once.
Suppose ten are found there?”
(Genesis 18:32)​

Then the two men said to Lot,
"Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place.."
(Genesis 19:12)​

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1696[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]way-ḏab-bêr[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וַיְדַבֵּ֣ר ׀[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and spoke[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]413[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’el-[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֶל־[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]unto[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2860[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ḥă-ṯā-nāw[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]חֲתָנָ֣יו ׀[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his sons-in-law[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3947[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]lō-qə-ḥê[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]לֹקְחֵ֣י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who married[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1323[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ḇə-nō-ṯāw,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]בְנֹתָ֗יו[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his daughers[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And Lot goeth out, and speaketh unto his sons-in-law, those taking his daughters, and saith, 'Rise, go out from this place, for Jehovah is destroying the city;' and he is as one mocking in the eyes of his sons-in-law.
(Genesis 19:14, YLT)​

literally, sons-in-law who had married his daughters
((aside from interpretive translation))

taking Genesis 19:14 literally indicates that Lot had daughters who had already married - so that the two who were taken out with him were not the ones identified with the sons-in-law.
the angels mention "sons" to him in v. 12 -- are they ignorant of his family size?

how big is Lot's family?
possibly 10 people?

were 4 taken out while 6 remained in the city?

 

[Denadii]

what would a mother be willing to give up her life for? to willingly commit suicide ((as it were)) in order to spend a last few moments with?

a blender?
some really nice curtains?
a little black dress?
a tea party with the Sodom book club?

Then he said,
“Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once.
Suppose ten are found there?”
(Genesis 18:32)​

Then the two men said to Lot,
"Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place.."
(Genesis 19:12)​

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1696[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]way-ḏab-bêr[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וַיְדַבֵּ֣ר ׀[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]and spoke[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]413[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]’el-[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֶל־[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]unto[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Prep[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2860[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ḥă-ṯā-nāw[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]חֲתָנָ֣יו ׀[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his sons-in-law[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3947[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]lō-qə-ḥê[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]לֹקְחֵ֣י[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]who married[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1323[e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ḇə-nō-ṯāw,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]בְנֹתָ֗יו[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]his daughers[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Noun[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And Lot goeth out, and speaketh unto his sons-in-law, those taking his daughters, and saith, 'Rise, go out from this place, for Jehovah is destroying the city;' and he is as one mocking in the eyes of his sons-in-law.
(Genesis 19:14, YLT)​

literally, sons-in-law who had married his daughters
((aside from interpretive translation))

taking Genesis 19:14 literally indicates that Lot had daughters who had already married - so that the two who were taken out with him were not the ones identified with the sons-in-law.
the angels mention "sons" to him in v. 12 -- are they ignorant of his family size?

how big is Lot's family?
possibly 10 people?

were 4 taken out while 6 remained in the city?

So what is your point here?