Repent or Perish Luke 13:1-5

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

persistent

Guest
#22
In my way to belive he is wrong, who is he to judge.
Just for your information. Charles Haddon Spurgeon (19 June 1834[1] – 31 January 1892) was an English Particular Baptist preacher. Spurgeon remains highly influential among Christians of various denominations, among whom he is known as the "Prince of Preachers". He was a strong figure in the Reformed Baptist tradition, defending the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and opposing the liberal and pragmatic theological tendencies in the Church of his day. I do listen to him. Much of his teaching was and is ok.
 
Sep 23, 2022
36
13
8
#23
Just for your information. Charles Haddon Spurgeon (19 June 1834[1] – 31 January 1892) was an English Particular Baptist preacher. Spurgeon remains highly influential among Christians of various denominations, among whom he is known as the "Prince of Preachers". He was a strong figure in the Reformed Baptist tradition, defending the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and opposing the liberal and pragmatic theological tendencies in the Church of his day. I do listen to him. Much of his teaching was and is ok.
Yes and this is why the church is so divided today, we belive in the same god we read the same bible. My faith is somehow wery conservative in some matters but God gave us the right to create life and take care of life, he never gave us the right to take life or blame someone.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#24
Just for your information. Charles Haddon Spurgeon (19 June 1834[1] – 31 January 1892) was an English Particular Baptist preacher. Spurgeon remains highly influential among Christians of various denominations, among whom he is known as the "Prince of Preachers". He was a strong figure in the Reformed Baptist tradition, defending the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, and opposing the liberal and pragmatic theological tendencies in the Church of his day. I do listen to him. Much of his teaching was and is ok.
...and Oyster Haddon Sturgeon. Her name was Elvira, and she gave lots of good Caviar! :p (Sorry, but I only know one Prince, and His name is not Charles.)
 
Sep 23, 2022
36
13
8
#25
...and Oyster Haddon Sturgeon. Her name was Elvira, and she gave lots of good Caviar! :p (Sorry, but I only know one Prince, and His name is not Charles.)
My daughters name is Elvira hahaha
 
P

persistent

Guest
#27
Yes and this is why the church is so divided today, we belive in the same god we read the same bible. My faith is somehow wery conservative in some matters but God gave us the right to create life and take care of life, he never gave us the right to take life or blame someone.
Spurgeon is long dead so I know he did not hear you. I listen to the recordings and pick out what is good. Most of it seems ok. No charge to listen. Some group in Florida maintains the site and I spoke with them and find them also to be wrong about some things and not very nice either. Kind of rude actually. But the site is free so if you want to listen or not. Spurgeon did a lot of preaching.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,896
5,634
113
#29
I do not think we will be judged by Jesus.
“I do not think we will be judged by Jesus.”

It’s because you aren’t allowing the rest of the thousands of verses to be true as well trying to isolate those as the only ones to consider

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s meant to change your mind when you hear and eventually accept it it will change more than what you think but also what you allow yourself to do change you

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; ( that’s why we hear and believe Jesus word John 6:63)

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭

then you’ll start to see how cohesive and repetitive it is throughout the New Testament especially in Paul’s epistles

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s meant to convince you to change what you think it works when we hear what’s there and believe it and then we find repentance

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:1‬ ‭

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

when we start to acknolwedge the truth like “ we all do have to face judgement “ it teaches us to repent and walk better lives because we’re also told that when we have sinned though we know it’s not okay we can repent and confess and be forgiven by walking in the light of bekieving the gospel and trusting in Christs atonement.

“If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:6-10‬ ‭

if we don’t want to be judged by Jesus we have to acknolwedge his call to repentance through mercy and remission of sins

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

everyone needs to hear that if they repent and believe the gospel they have eternal life. This doesn’t say “ become sinless and you’ll then be saved “ it’s saying let your mind be changed by hearing and believing Jesus and youll
Be saved


“..Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬

when we acknowledge Jesus teachings were being called to repentance so our sins are remitted and we arent judged by them .

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we believe what Jesus had to say about salvation including repentance it’s going to move us to action we’re not perfect but we can change our mindset about sin and righteousness through faith and that changes us
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,896
5,634
113
#30
Spurgeon seems to say in his sermon that we either go to Heaven or Hell when we die. He calls every method of death a gate to Hades in the sermon. Once we die my sense is that we go to Heavens court. 2 Peter you refer to does not eliminate the possibility of a Heavens Court.
yes man is two parts and so there are two deaths one is of the flesh the other the spirit so you have this situation under the new testament

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

while we live in life in the flesh body we eventually die and it returns back ton to the dust but what happens to the living spirit inside of the body ?

remember how man came to be alive

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭

When a man does the opposite happens the dust returns to what it was and the spirit returns to God for judgement

Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬

we know because of the New Testament revelation

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the spirit returns to Christ who gave it and is being judged for what the person did while in the flesh on earth.

he probably read Jesus teaching about Lazarus and the rich man when each dies the first death , one goes to heaven the other to hell while people are still on earth living tbier lives one is in hell the other in heaven but there’s also a second death of the spirit this is the death we are saved from by Jesus

“And I saw the dead, ( everyone who died once) small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭

there’s the first death , judgement for believers and eternal Life with Jesus , then there’s the jidgement of the dead in the last resurrection some are in hell , some are sleeping in death , but notice the ones in heaven aren’t judged last that already were judged innocent by the gospel through repentance and remission ( making thoer clothes white with his blood of the new covenant )

then there’s the last death where everything not eternal is cast into the lake of fire the eternal destruction of evil .
hell Is a temporary holding place for wicked spirits of wicked people and demons a place of torment and pain. But the kingdom of God is forever.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
654
113
#31
repentance means your Intentions are to do right always and when you realize that you’ve done something wrong along the way it should affect your conscience when you realize it and bring guilt which causes us to repent and gives us a spirit of supplication. Turns us away from willful sin teaching us from within
Have you ever heard the saying: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions?"
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,896
5,634
113
#32
Have you ever heard the saying: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions?"
yep I’m pretty old so I’ve hear just about every dab nagged saying there is , I remember when “sufferin’ succotash “ was a saying lol

what’s your point ? We shouldn’t have good intentions or we’re headed for hell ?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,946
6,520
113
62
#33
Based on Charles Spurgeon sermon;.. accidents, not punishments,........click link to listen or ???
I have difficulty recalling scriptures and many things people mention about the Bible still can confuse me. I think of it as Alice in Wonderland syndrome. Or like reading a book I once came across about advanced mathematics, I could read and have some idea what the individual was conveying, but once I put the book down I wouldn't be able to explain any of it but I knew it made sense. Lewis Carrol aka Charles Dodgson was a math teacher by profession, and penned 'Alice' and ???. Spurgeon states in his sermon, referring to Luke 13:1 that we after accepting Jesus as our Savior & baptized are on PROBATION. Again it makes sense when I listen to it but cannot explain it. Maybe we are going to still be penalized for all sins and not being very mindful of God during this life. Maybe like the song about whose naughty or nice.
https://www.spurgeongems.org/audio/175chs.mp3
1There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had [a]mingled with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
I think we are overthinking the passage. There are many in Jesus time as well as today who believe those who suffer extreme sickness of handicap horrific deaths in some way were deserving of it having committed egregious sin. Jesus is reminding the people of His time as well as all time that death isn't the issue. We will all die. The question is whether you will die in your sins never having made peace with God. Thus the warning to repent as death often comes quickly and unexpectedly.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,878
847
113
#34
My take is that some people like the Apostles who Jesus as flesh & blood man selected are to be given positions as judges. Moses is the foreshadow of The King and his father in law recommended he delegate authority. Possibly Heavens court will allow subpoenas and depositions?
I get to judge the sinners also. I will judge the world.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,878
847
113
#35
Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Judgement is for those that are not clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

We do not stand before the Lord wearing our own twisted and selfish righteousness!

Will you be wearing the appropriate clothing on that day?

Who would dare accuse the elect of sin?
 
P

persistent

Guest
#36
I think we are overthinking the passage. There are many in Jesus time as well as today who believe those who suffer extreme sickness of handicap horrific deaths in some way were deserving of it having committed egregious sin. Jesus is reminding the people of His time as well as all time that death isn't the issue. We will all die. The question is whether you will die in your sins never having made peace with God. Thus the warning to repent as death often comes quickly and unexpectedly.
The mention about them being greater sinners seem little unusual. If anyone listens to the sermon Spurgeon early on 'mistakenly' implies that accidentally dying is a gateway to hades. I think the way he puts that phrase is wrong. I early on, was listening to a internet 'preacher' by name Hoggard in Festus, Mo., and he was going on about people close to him, maybe relatives who he hoped would make a deathbed acceptance of Jesus and be 'saved'. I talked with Hoggard on the phone a few times and he told me my experience on which I started to seek God was devil's doing it. He seems like he doesn't know what he is talking about. And just about 30 minutes ago I had jw's at my front door and I had the one of them here for the third time. Some of these things I mention just because they are a bit frustrating to me. Hoggard was a preacher I was listening to around 2018. Thought here is someone maybe knows the way to teach. I think he may still be on but changed tactics. I was listening all kinds of stuff and get too many screwball ideas from wanna be preachers. Here we get debate and maybe figure out what certain passages really say.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,878
847
113
#37
It depends upon which verses we recognize and honor. For example:

Acts 17:31 NIV - "For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."
This is the point.

How you understand the New Testament is based on your interpretation of the scripture.

Which verses you highlight and which verses you ignore or even fail to notice.

As you said, "verses we recognize and honor".

Everyone does that, they apply an interpretation to the scripture.

The greatest Christian authors and preachers in church history, all of them have an interpretation of the scripture.

Churches blatantly, at times, hold to different interpretations of the New Testament.

We can never be free and perfect in our reading of the scripture, it's impossible.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,878
847
113
#38
The mention about them being greater sinners seem little unusual. If anyone listens to the sermon Spurgeon early on 'mistakenly' implies that accidentally dying is a gateway to hades. I think the way he puts that phrase is wrong. I early on, was listening to a internet 'preacher' by name Hoggard in Festus, Mo., and he was going on about people close to him, maybe relatives who he hoped would make a deathbed acceptance of Jesus and be 'saved'. I talked with Hoggard on the phone a few times and he told me my experience on which I started to seek God was devil's doing it. He seems like he doesn't know what he is talking about. And just about 30 minutes ago I had jw's at my front door and I had the one of them here for the third time. Some of these things I mention just because they are a bit frustrating to me. Hoggard was a preacher I was listening to around 2018. Thought here is someone maybe knows the way to teach. I think he may still be on but changed tactics. I was listening all kinds of stuff and get too many screwball ideas from wanna be preachers. Here we get debate and maybe figure out what certain passages really say.
The main problem is two thousand years of church history has muddied the water we drink from.

The apostles made lots of mistakes and they were tapped into the source itself.

God help the rest of us.
 
P

persistent

Guest
#39
I know some folks on here have serious interests in the Bible and then also there are those that have it all figured out. I also have listened to enough of Spurgeons work to know that he was as legitimate as possible. However, unlike the Popes claims of infallibility, Spurgeon never claimed that. It is recorded in some of his sermons that he would express his regrets that his preaching was a catalyst to encourage some to turn away from faith. Not in those words but that is the gist.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,878
847
113
#40
The way things go are going and have been done seem to not truly reflect the genuine nature of God. Heavens court may correct all that has gone before. Seems our short time here almost 'necessitates' we resort to baser 'instincts'. Eternity is a reality which our mental capacities find difficult to comprehend. The only sense of eternity I can think of is in numbers. Any number can have '1' added to it and go on forever. We are limited at this time but the Heavenly Realm is not and Paul mentions that in addition to Jesus words as a flesh and blood man. Why would a Father put a Son in a terrible situation and also administer undeserved 'punishment' to His own Son?
The gospel is directly aimed at your heart rather than your intellect. A difficult truth to accept. I have never been fond of this.

God is love!

And that is the shortest and most powerful three words in the scripture.

Love is a gift of the Holy Spirit and is poured directly into our hearts.

All the apostles teaching was given to enable you to express a perfect, fervent, love towards the brethren.

Make no mistake, we were destined to be conformed to the image of Christ. That image is perfect and eternal love.

Once again, this is not easy to accept and you should struggle with this revelation.