^^^ <continued with the post on the previous page>
Finally, what shall be done with verses in the bible that appear to go both directions when it comes to what exactly God is forgiving? Some state the passage with pronouns, indicating a person or people are forgiven, and other plainly talk about the forgiveness of sin with no pronoun references at all.
To me, considering all I spelled out above, God forgives people and only people. Sin is dealt with through death. The way I reconcile the split in what is said in different verses is by understanding that we are expected to fill in the blanks as it were by reading into them all a more complete understand that what is being said. Kind of how you read through an abbreviated or short handed statement... some of the details left out must simply be understood even if not mentioned.
Before you get upset at this idea, please note it already happens in the bible in ways we usually don't think about. We just fill in the blanks in our heads. For instance:
Here we see Jesus literally talking to a woman (and none else at the time as they were alone) when He explains: "I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life." She immediately ask for the living water because she knows He is offering it to her even though he only used masculine pronouns in His statement.
We all know it applies to males and females because it would be absurd to suggest that only men can get saved. We fill in the unstated truths with common sense (BTW, I do NOT agree with the trend of bible translations that try to gender-neutral passages like these... the Lord has His reasons for what He says and why),
Here's another "fill in the blanks" example from the bible in this passage about Job:
We are told that Job is blessed by God with double in all that he had. So is this verse a contradiction?
He lost 7K sheep, and God restored 14K sheep. That's double, just like the earlier verse said. The same is true for the camels, oxen and donkeys... he received double over what he originally had. But Job had ten children at the beginning of the book, and God some would point out that he only received ten children at the end.
That's not double, unless you fill-in-the-blanks: as far as God is concerned, the ten children that died are still Job's children, unlike the animals that died. The complete statement is that "He had seven sons and three daughters <along with the ten children that passed on>. This assumption is supported by scripture when David said of his dead infant to his servants:
People today, saved or not, will comment on children that prematurely passed on before them as still being their children all the time. Here's another example where Jesus is talking to the condemned sinner on judgement day:
Is it true Jesus had no idea who that person was when He declared that "I never knew you"? Of course not. Fill in the blanks. The Lord didn't have an eternally close relationship with that person because salvation was rejected.
So apply that same principal with some of the verses that seem to suggest a forgiveness of sin when we can instead fill-in-the-blanks for a more complete statement when supported by what the Lord clearly shows in the rest of scripture as I've laid out. Here's one example of what that looks like:
Hopefully that's all a bit clearer.
Finally, what shall be done with verses in the bible that appear to go both directions when it comes to what exactly God is forgiving? Some state the passage with pronouns, indicating a person or people are forgiven, and other plainly talk about the forgiveness of sin with no pronoun references at all.
To me, considering all I spelled out above, God forgives people and only people. Sin is dealt with through death. The way I reconcile the split in what is said in different verses is by understanding that we are expected to fill in the blanks as it were by reading into them all a more complete understand that what is being said. Kind of how you read through an abbreviated or short handed statement... some of the details left out must simply be understood even if not mentioned.
Before you get upset at this idea, please note it already happens in the bible in ways we usually don't think about. We just fill in the blanks in our heads. For instance:
John 4:13-14
Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
Here we see Jesus literally talking to a woman (and none else at the time as they were alone) when He explains: "I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life." She immediately ask for the living water because she knows He is offering it to her even though he only used masculine pronouns in His statement.
We all know it applies to males and females because it would be absurd to suggest that only men can get saved. We fill in the unstated truths with common sense (BTW, I do NOT agree with the trend of bible translations that try to gender-neutral passages like these... the Lord has His reasons for what He says and why),
Here's another "fill in the blanks" example from the bible in this passage about Job:
Job 1:2-3
Seven sons and three daughters were born to him. 3 His possessions also were 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and very many servants; and that man was the greatest of all the [a]men of the east.
We all know that Job's ten children and animals all died, right? At the end of the book, we are told this about what God restored to him:Job 42:10
The Lord restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the Lord increased all that Job had twofold.
We are told that Job is blessed by God with double in all that he had. So is this verse a contradiction?
Job 42:12-13
The Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning; and he had 14,000 sheep and 6,000 camels and 1,000 yoke of oxen and 1,000 female donkeys. He had seven sons and three daughters.
He lost 7K sheep, and God restored 14K sheep. That's double, just like the earlier verse said. The same is true for the camels, oxen and donkeys... he received double over what he originally had. But Job had ten children at the beginning of the book, and God some would point out that he only received ten children at the end.
That's not double, unless you fill-in-the-blanks: as far as God is concerned, the ten children that died are still Job's children, unlike the animals that died. The complete statement is that "He had seven sons and three daughters <along with the ten children that passed on>. This assumption is supported by scripture when David said of his dead infant to his servants:
2 Samuel 12:22-23
He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”
People today, saved or not, will comment on children that prematurely passed on before them as still being their children all the time. Here's another example where Jesus is talking to the condemned sinner on judgement day:
Matthew 7:23
And then i will declare to them, ‘i never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.’
Is it true Jesus had no idea who that person was when He declared that "I never knew you"? Of course not. Fill in the blanks. The Lord didn't have an eternally close relationship with that person because salvation was rejected.
So apply that same principal with some of the verses that seem to suggest a forgiveness of sin when we can instead fill-in-the-blanks for a more complete statement when supported by what the Lord clearly shows in the rest of scripture as I've laid out. Here's one example of what that looks like:
Luke 7:47-48
For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.”
The parts not stated here but are supported by scripture gives a more complete understanding of what is being said:"...I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven..." and “Your sins have been forgiven.”
<...<because instead I volunteer to die for those sins to pay the debt that is owed so she does not have to die and will have eternal life>
Hopefully that's all a bit clearer.
