Requirements of Salvation

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K

Kim82

Guest
I think his point is that, so long as you try your best, and use 1 John 1:9 whenever you fail, that is the way a Christian should live to ensure he "stays saved".
One of the other men who was crucified with Christ. The only best he did was to believe in Jesus, and he was saved.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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This was not just some random sin. In verse 20, Peter made it clear to Simon, “your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.” Peter went on to tell Simon to repent of his wickedness and said he was poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. You call that saved? o_O

Verse 24 doesn’t change that and we see that Simon was fearful, but did it lead to repentance or was he only wanting to escape the consequences of his sin?
What comes after vv. 20-21? "Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you" (v. 22). Again, I ask you, have you committed any wickedness since you believed and were baptized?
 
K

Kim82

Guest
Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I agree with you, I have already stated that the OT is very useful for us in the Body of Christ, as long as you recognize it is not written to you.
Of course not. But when it comes to a section like Genesis chapters 1-11, what is the difference between 'to you' and 'for you' if you are a Gentile? (Remember there were no Jews before Abraham).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Of course not. But when it comes to a section like Genesis chapters 1-11, what is the difference between 'to you' and 'for you' if you are a Gentile? (Remember there were no Jews before Abraham).
For one thing, you won't build an ark when God commanded Noah to do so, because you know that instruction was directed only to him and only during that time.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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My point is obvious. This man believed and was saved. He did not work for his salvation.
How do you know he did not keep the Law of Moses up to that point where he committed that deed that caused him to be crucified?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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For one thing, you won't build an ark when God commanded Noah to do so, because you know that instruction was directed only to him and only during that time.
Well neither would a Jew living today. So that section is as much 'to me' as 'to the Jew'.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Well neither would a Jew living today. So that section is as much 'to me' as 'to the Jew'.
Yep, but there are also many instructions in the 4 gospels that only apply to Jews during that time, and not now to anyone, Jew or Gentile.

The idea is still to rightly divide the word of truth.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
How do you know he did not keep the Law of Moses up to that point where he committed that deed that caused him to be crucified?
Moses says you are to keep all the law. Not keep most of them and break one. So according to old testament this man is condemned. Are you going to now ask me how do I know if a sheep was not slaughtered on his behalf?

This man was saved only through grace.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
Again, I ask you, have you committed any wickedness since you believed and were baptized?
Christians do sin, and that is why Jesus has to continue justifying us.
Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Moses says you are to keep all the law. Not keep most of them and break one. So according to old testament this man is condemned. Are you going to now ask me how do I know if a sheep was not slaughtered on his behalf?

This man was saved only through grace.
The point is, BC's doctrine is not contradicted by using the thief on the cross example. He believed in Jesus, Jesus forgave him whatever his sins was, and he was saved.

You are reading into scripture, specifically reading Paul into the account.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Yep, but there are also many instructions in the 4 gospels that only apply to Jews during that time, and not now to anyone, Jew or Gentile.

The idea is still to rightly divide the word of truth.
Sure we must always ask when reading a passage, "Who was it for, Who was it to, When written, Where, Why, etc.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
How is it that people who are unable to perfectly obey God like to make a case that you have to work to be saved? They are liars and hypocrites.

They like to boast that they are not fornicators or murderers, but what about all the other commands that they break?

The "little" sins that they commit in their thoughts and in their actions, they ignore them.

Let's talk about God's grace. And pray that He releases his supernatural strength into our lives that we may do His will. That we may bear fruits.

Let us talk about the faithfulness, patience and longsuffering of God our maker in putting up with us.

Let's talk about how Jesus took our place on the cross.

We need to encourage each other to do good, but we must understand it is only by God's strength.

So not because you are strong in certain areas of your life, you are going to tell the person who is struggling that they are not saved. You need to pray for them and encourage them. That's how it should be.
 

BlessedCreator

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
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If you think you can live in sin willfully, living an unholy life contrary to God's will and still be saved, you are wrong.

It is all about having a good conscience toward God. That is why Christ died for our sins so that we could receive atonement for them. Meaning to appease God's anger toward us because our sins. If after being forgiven of our sins and we continue on in them willfully we are told in Hebrews 10:26-31
"
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Sin accidentally happens sometimes but we are to grow in purity and faith more and more until our last day, striving to be perfect until we are actually made on the day of judgment. If we sin, repent. But to those who willfully sin thinking you can have pleasure in unrighteousness and still be saved, you will be damned just as God tells us.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,941
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How is it that people who are unable to perfectly obey God like to make a case that you have to work to be saved? They are liars and hypocrites.

They like to boast that they are not fornicators or murderers, but what about all the other commands that they break?

The "little" sins that they commit in their thoughts and in their actions, they ignore them.
Yes they also ignore that which they ought to do like 'love the Lord their God with all their mind, all their heart, all their soul, all their strength...all the time and their neighbor as themselves. By this standard, they fall woefully short and if they think they are doing pretty well, they are woefully deceived.
 
K

Kim82

Guest
If you think you can live in sin willfully, living an unholy life contrary to God's will and still be saved, you are wrong.

It is all about having a good conscience toward God. That is why Christ died for our sins so that we could receive atonement for them. Meaning to appease God's anger toward us because our sins. If after being forgiven of our sins and we continue on in them willfully we are told in Hebrews 10:26-31
"
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Sin accidentally happens sometimes but we are to grow in purity and faith more and more until our last day, striving to be perfect until we are actually made on the day of judgment. If we sin, repent. But to those who willfully sin thinking you can have pleasure in unrighteousness and still be saved, you will be damned just as God tells us.
The fact of the matter is that you are not perfect. You need God's grace just as everyone else does.

I'm sorry if this hurts your pride. But that's just the way it is so that no one may boast Ephesians 2:9
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,941
3,354
113
If you think you can live in sin willfully, living an unholy life contrary to God's will and still be saved, you are wrong.

It is all about having a good conscience toward God. That is why Christ died for our sins so that we could receive atonement for them. Meaning to appease God's anger toward us because our sins. If after being forgiven of our sins and we continue on in them willfully we are told in Hebrews 10:26-31
"
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Sin accidentally happens sometimes but we are to grow in purity and faith more and more until our last day, striving to be perfect until we are actually made on the day of judgment. If we sin, repent. But to those who willfully sin thinking you can have pleasure in unrighteousness and still be saved, you will be damned just as God tells us.
Again yanking verses out of context.That passage in Hebrews is a warning to not turn from Christ by reverting back to the Levitical system for their forgiveness. Once they had come to the knowledge of forgiveness in Christ they would be spurning the precious blood of Jesus by reverting back to animal sacrifices. The backdrop was the new Hebrew converts were facing extreme pressure and persecution to deny this new faith.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
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I stand behind the post. Here is another from Hebrew dictionary translation for repent. I read several & chose to use Strongs (most popular today) in the post.

Milon dictionary English-Hebrew repent (verb) Biblical Hebrew, the idea of repentance (to return) !

Repentance: Strong's Hebrews ( H7725:שׁוּב ) to turn back, return, a wholehearted turning to God.

John the Baptist didn't write the book of Jn nor Jn 1, 2 or 3 that you referenced.

Matt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

John the Baptist, a Jew from the tribe of Levi. Is preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, to other Jews under Mosaic law. If your postion is that, John is speaking Greek, I strongly disagree. Best wishes, FD
Strongs is a Concordance. That means it is a back translation from Hebrew to English. What you need is a Lexicon.

The best example is BDB or Brown-Driver-Briggs for Hebrew, and Bauer or BDAG Bauer, Danker:
https://www.logos.com/product/3878/...t-and-other-early-christian-literature-3rd-ed

Further. I certainly never said anything about John the Baptist writing the John books. It was John, the beloved disciple of Jesus, who wrote them, in a simple English.

However my biggest objection to your post, is not that shuv means to turn away in Hebrew. It does mean that! However, the NT was written in Greek, and metanoia means repentance in the NT. Nor are the words perfectly the same, but close enough.

Please stop with all the red herrings, and admit that what repentance means in Hebrew is not the same word in Greek, which the NT was written in.