Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Here are some verses telling us that Christians are not judged.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.

Hebrews 9:28
So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

All Jesus teaching are correlated each other, not contradict
The problem with you is you think those verses is contradict Matt 25
That was wrong
Those verses that you quote consistence with Matt 25
On the last judgement the Lord Jesus not or not remember The sheep sin any,
More, not because they never sin, all are sinner
But because the sheep believe in Jesus than they are save
In the same time for the same reason, (because they believe in Jesus) Jesus in them change they life style become what Jesus say in Matt 25

It is wrong to say Matt 25 contradict that verses
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It imply the sheep in Matt 25 is non believer
How you believe non believer go to eternal life
That is out of contact
They were tribulation saints doing good works out of faith.

And you think this verse contradict Matt 25

Read that verse again

Christ live the in me

What happen if Christ live in you

He produce agape love, helping the needy and you bear it

So that verse not contradict Matt 25
OIC, we're back on Matt 25...again.
Let me ask you, how many people do you need to feed, clothe and visit until you can proclaim with Paul...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (gal 2.20)
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Why are Matthew's Gospel and the letter from James, so popular amongst the works based churches.

I could not count the number of times I have seen quotations from Matthew's Gospel.

I also see Matthew's Gospel quoted in eschatology threads often, rarely ever, from Luke's Gospel.

I feel like I am in the Christian twilight zone.

The New Testament only has two letters in it, Matthew's Gospel and James.
And notice, these same work-a-holics have Pauline phobia?
 
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And notice, these same work-a-holics have Pauline phobia?
I don't have Pauline phobia at all, I love St. Paul. And in many passages, like Rom 2:6-7 and 1 Cor 3:13-15, the Apostle speaks of Good Works done in Faith and their importance and value.

But does the list include Revelation? I think the clearest statements against antinomianism and any form of licentiousness post-justification to be in the Book of Revelation by Jesus Himself.

Jesus said:"be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Rev 2:10)

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" (Rev 2:26)

We must be "faithful unto death" and "keep [Christ's] works unto the end" in order to receive a victorious welcome from the Lord into His Kingdom. And this is echoed by St. John himself in his second epistle: "Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward." (2 Jn 1:8)
 

crossnote

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Why don't you ask to Jesus
Matt 25 is His teaching, Jesus teaching not mine
The whole Bible is Jesus teaching...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2Ti 3:16)
 

Jackson123

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I see again and again people think Matt 25 is contradict john 3:16 and some of Paul letter
It is wrong

Paul say Noah save from flood because of faith
For some people that not use logic to read the Bible will say Noah save from flood because he work hard to build an arch

Read it again, why he build an arch

He build an arch because he have faith and believe all information from the Lird
The root couse is faith

That is why I believe he save by faith not by work

But yes his faith drive him to work hard to build an arch
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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But does the list include Revelation? I think the clearest statements against antinomianism and any form of licentiousness post-justification to be in the Book of Revelation by Jesus Himself.
I didn't realize post-justification licentiousness was the topic. I don't think anyone would argue for licentiousness.
Our faithfulness and fruits of righteousness are linked to the New Life we received in regeneration...a new heart, a new love, a new will.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The whole Bible is Jesus teaching...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2Ti 3:16)
You are correct all Bible include Matt 25 are Jesus teaching
They are related not contradict each other
But seem to me you think Matt 25 teach work salvation
To me Matt 25 is also faith salvation To me in Matt 25 Jesus teach about the manifestation of faith
 
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I didn't realize post-justification licentiousness was the topic. I don't think anyone would argue for licentiousness.
Our faithfulness and fruits of righteousness are linked to the New Life we received in regeneration...a new heart, a new love, a new will.
Hi Crossnote.

With the bolded, I agree. I would only add, Good Works done post-regeneration, when we receive a new heart and a new love, are promised rewards in Heaven (as opposed to good works without the new heart which aren't). Do you agree?

Verses for that: 1 Cor 3:8, 13-14: "8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour ... 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Recently, Catholic and Lutheran Theologians signed the below Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.

"4.7 The Good Works of the Justified

37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.

38.According to Catholic understanding, good works, made possible by grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, contribute to growth in grace, so that the righteousness that comes from God is preserved and communion with Christ is deepened. When Catholics affirm the "meritorious" character of good works, they wish to say that, according to the biblical witness, a reward in heaven is promised to these works. Their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions, not to contest the character of those works as gifts, or far less to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace.

39.The concept of a preservation of grace and a growth in grace and faith is also held by Lutherans. They do emphasize that righteousness as acceptance by God and sharing in the righteousness of Christ is always complete. At the same time, they state that there can be growth in its effects in Christian living. When they view the good works of Christians as the fruits and signs of justification and not as one's own "merits", they nevertheless also understand eternal life in accord with the New Testament as unmerited "reward" in the sense of the fulfillment of God's promise to the believer. [See Sources for section 4.7]. " https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/joint-declaration-on-the-doctrine-of-justification-2356

God Bless.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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Free Grace, here's a Catch 22 for you, 2 in fact. According to you, those who do what 2 Pet 1:5-11 (my signature) below exhorts will not just go to Heaven, but receive an Abundant Entrance, or more Rewards. Well, very good then. I'm going to aim for that, and work for that, by God's Grace.
Before there are any rewards, there must be the qualification for entrance itself. By that, I mean, being saved in the first place.

When a mere earthly job or whatever promises more rewards, how many people rush to try to have it. So much more should we store Treasures in Heaven, as the Lord said, by doing Good Works.
So far, no catch 22.

And where I disagree is not indeed that those who don't labor more won't be rewarded more; they will, be as also 1 Cor 3:8, and 3:13-15 says, but that these Good Works, by God's Grace, "help confirm our calling and election". If you need to do something to confirm a plane ticket, say, it's not confirmed already.
Well, I certainly disagree with that. Peter wasn't saying that the "ticket to heaven" hasn't been confirmed yet. And it is only confirmed by a change in lifestyle. That would be salvation by works, whether you understand that or not.

Peter WAS saying that one's calling and election IS confirmed or evidenced by the list that Peter gave.

That's why this verse is strong evidence against OSAS.
Not at all. It's about reward for those who ARE saved. This is how Peter opened his epistle: 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

So, right here, in v.1, Peter is confirming his audience's salvation. Then he moves past the issue of getting saved, to the issue of reward.

OSAS is true if we mean Once Justified, Always Justified. Once Baptized, Always Baptized. Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified. And also, if you Persevere in Faith, or in Good Works, then you received the Grace to Persevere from the Lord.
OK, I see that you are confused. To be "justified" means the SAME thing as to be saved. Why do you apparently think otherwise?

How about these, as well: once a son, always a son. (OSAS :)). Once a recipient of eternal life, shall never perish (John 10:28).

But not once saved, always saved, in the sense you mean it.
I mean it in the SAME SENSE that Jesus spoke of in John 10:28. He gives eternal life, and the recipient shall never perish. You can call that what you want. I call it OSAS.

I agree if you sin little, and don't work for the Lord, you'll lose rewards from Him. Such persons will be "saved, but only through fire", with their works burned up as 1 Cor 3:13-14 also says. But if you sin gravely, unto death, and don't repent at all, and even turn your back on Christ, you won't be saved at all.
Except no verse says this. There are no verses that clearly communicate that salvation can be lost.

So, EVERY verse Arminians use to "defend" the warning about loss of salvation simply do not understand the verses.

But, here's the 2nd Catch 22 for you. According to you, most everyone who has ever said a 30 Second Sinners Prayers (and I'm sure most on this forum have said it, including me; and including most non-OSASers) are once saved, always saved, and nothing absolutely whatever they do or don't do can change then. Well, very good then, we're pretty much all saved then!
You have just one teeny tiny problem here with your supposed catch 22. I reject ANY kind of prayer that saves. That started sometime in the 18th Century, I think. Say a prayer, repeat after me, etc.

Words DON'T save anyone. There are zero examples of anyone being told to pray for salvation. That's NOT how one receives salvation.

The key is what a person BELIEVES.

So much for your catch 22's.

Final question: if someone who you believe was OSAS has now backslidden from Christ and is an Atheist, would you even try to Evangelize him?
If that person had believed on the work of Christ alone for his salvation, then Jesus GAVE him eternal life. And on that basis, and THAT basis alone, Jesus says he shall never perish. I believe what Jesus said. You either still don't understand or you simply don't believe Him.

So, no, evangelization is irrelevant in that case. What that person needs is a strong rebuke for leaving the faith.

According to you, he's still going to Heaven, right? If you sin gravely, i.e. unto death, you lose Christ, or the Holy Spirit, Who is our life.
No, you don't lose either. Where are you getting your ideas from? you make claims, but don't back them up with verses that clearly teach what you claim.

If you die without having Christ in you, you cannot go to Heaven.
That would be a person who NEVER believed. So, I agtee, they cannot go to heaven.

That's why it says clearly: "6God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” 7To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. (Rom 2:6-7) King David (Psa 62:2) and King Solomon (Prov 24:12) said similar things.
<sigh> Paul was telling his audience (including us) how to EARN eternal life. iow, be perfect. That's what "by perseverance in doing good" refers to. Paul meant by keeping the law perfectly one would EARN eternal life. And such a person would have NO NEED for Jesus to die for their sins. They wouldn't need a Savior, since they would have EARNED salvation by themselves.

Do you think you can fulfill Rom 2:6-8? That would be you already have been since early childhood.

But, Paul went on to make very clear that NO ONE can fulfill Rom 2:6-8.
Rom 3:9,10, 20, and 23 prove that.

Notice that Jesus Christ Himself says the same as Rom 2:6 in Rev 22:12, which means it still applies in the New Covenant: "12“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done." (Rev 22:12)

God Bless.
Well, you apparently missed the key word in v.12 "My reward". That's the key. Heaven or salvation isn't a reward. That would mean it is EARNED.

But Eph 2:8,9 refutes that idea completely.

Do you understand the meaning of grace? It means 'unmerited favor'. iow, salvation without having to work for it.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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Jackson123 said:
How about Matt 25
Jesus saved people because they help the poor
Abraham believe than work hard walk more than 2000 mile brought all his animal move to israel

Actually, Jesus gave us a future account of what a crowd says to Him about getting into the kingdom.

Matt 7-
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

v.21 kinda sounds like getting into the kingdom will be based on doing things, such as "the will of My Father".

So v.22 shows this crowd appealing to Jesus on the basis of doing really good things, and EVEN in His Name: casting out demons, and performing many miracles!!

But, in v.23 Jesus tells them plainly that He "never knew" them. If any of them had ever believed in Him alone for salvation, He couldn't have said that to them. So what He did say to them proves that they never believed in Him.
I agree with what you said.

The apostles performed the identical works as those folk in Matthew chapter seven.

Imitation works performed not through that faith in Jesus, but by the name of the Lord only.

Look at our works Lord!
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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And notice, these same work-a-holics have Pauline phobia?
Some of them are not at all fluent in Paul's letters. Others will cherry pick from the letter to the Romans. The rest of Paul's letters do not exist.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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All Jesus teaching are correlated each other, not contradict
The problem with you is you think those verses is contradict Matt 25
That was wrong
Those verses that you quote consistence with Matt 25
On the last judgement the Lord Jesus not or not remember The sheep sin any,
More, not because they never sin, all are sinner
But because the sheep believe in Jesus than they are save
In the same time for the same reason, (because they believe in Jesus) Jesus in them change they life style become what Jesus say in Matt 25

It is wrong to say Matt 25 contradict that verses
You cannot say that we are saved by believing in Jesus. Then also say that we are saved by our works. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ through faith. The works actually perfect that faith.

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,440
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Hi Crossnote.

With the bolded, I agree. I would only add, Good Works done post-regeneration, when we receive a new heart and a new love, are promised rewards in Heaven (as opposed to good works without the new heart which aren't). Do you agree?

Verses for that: 1 Cor 3:8, 13-14: "8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour ... 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Recently, Catholic and Lutheran Theologians signed the below Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification.

"4.7 The Good Works of the Justified

37.We confess together that good works - a Christian life lived in faith, hope and love - follow justification and are its fruits. When the justified live in Christ and act in the grace they receive, they bring forth, in biblical terms, good fruit. Since Christians struggle against sin their entire lives, this consequence of justification is also for them an obligation they must fulfill. Thus both Jesus and the apostolic Scriptures admonish Christians to bring forth the works of love.

38.According to Catholic understanding, good works, made possible by grace and the working of the Holy Spirit, contribute to growth in grace, so that the righteousness that comes from God is preserved and communion with Christ is deepened. When Catholics affirm the "meritorious" character of good works, they wish to say that, according to the biblical witness, a reward in heaven is promised to these works. Their intention is to emphasize the responsibility of persons for their actions, not to contest the character of those works as gifts, or far less to deny that justification always remains the unmerited gift of grace.

39.The concept of a preservation of grace and a growth in grace and faith is also held by Lutherans. They do emphasize that righteousness as acceptance by God and sharing in the righteousness of Christ is always complete. At the same time, they state that there can be growth in its effects in Christian living. When they view the good works of Christians as the fruits and signs of justification and not as one's own "merits", they nevertheless also understand eternal life in accord with the New Testament as unmerited "reward" in the sense of the fulfillment of God's promise to the believer. [See Sources for section 4.7]. " https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/joint-declaration-on-the-doctrine-of-justification-2356

God Bless.
Remember, those were compromising and are liberal Lutherans, now embracing wokism and gay marriage.
They failed to see the real divide which spurred the Reformation, and that was a man is justified before God by faith ALONE, do you believe that, or do you side with Rome who anathematized those who held to such a view, at the Council of Trent?
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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You cannot say that we are saved by believing in Jesus. Then also say that we are saved by our works. We are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ through faith. The works actually perfect that faith.

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.
We save by faith, not work but work is manifestation of faith

What saved Noah from the fload
Faith

But hard work to build an arch is manifestation of his faith

How He say believe on God information about the coming fload but not work to build an arch?

Faith saved him, his faith drive him to work build an arch

Not only work, example farming is work
But work because he have faith if the coming fload
Work correlate to faith

For our salvation our work must invite Jesus into outer heart

Than Jesus in us change our heart
It will bear fruit