Resurrection and Rapture verse in John 11

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Aug 2, 2021
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#21
You just quoted the verse which has both the Resurrection and the Rapture happening at the same time.
1 Cor ch15, which again, clearly shows the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ Rising BEFORE the remaining living Saints.

The rapture is subordinate to the Resurrection.

Satan knows this and the main reason why he placed the error of a rapture before the Resurrection.

This is a major assault on Truth and the Body of Christ to divide us.

Think now Brother, since our LORD and Savior says: "I am the Resurrection."

Since HE , in Fact, is the Totality/Completeness of the entire Volume of the Book, His Life portrayed for us the Complete Picture of Salvation including His Second Coming = our Resurrection.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep/died.
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#22
I don't see how that is possible....
It is One Event but this One Event has ORDER

Have you never heard this phrase - 'the first order of the day'

The FIRST Order of the Day of the LORD is to Resurrect the Saints = 1 Thess & 2 Thess & 1 John and Matthew ch24
AFTER that
HE transforms the living/remaining Saints into His Likeness as they are being 'Called UP' to meet the Resurrected Saints in the Clouds of GLORY
AFTER that
the DAY of Judgment upon those who received the Mark of the Beast and the Slaying of their King - the Antichrist.
included in this Judgment are those nations who fought against Israel in this End Time Scenario which is NOW beginning to take place.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#23
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Your thoughts!
I'm wondering how you got "rapture" out of verse 25?

Mayhaps someone else has already asked..........
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#24
Oh........ I see

this has gone straight into that whole Pre/Post Trib stuff.......sigh.......

Ressurection and rapture are not the same. Lazarus was never said to have been "raptured" after Jesus raised him from the dead. Not in Scripture anyhoo.

Y'all enjoy your Pre/Post trib stuff
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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#26
You said: "Now let's make some sense out of this, Verse 15, this is talking about the dead and those who are still alive and both are coming back with Jesus to meet him in the clouds."

Maybe a typo because NO WHERE does verse 15 say that those alive are coming back with Christ.

Verse 14 : them also which sleep/died in Jesus will God bring with him.
verse 15 : For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep

verse 16: The Lord is descending which means coming down from the Third Heaven, the voice of archangel and trumpet are sound, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

verse 17: AFTER that, we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
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#27
You said: "Now let's make some sense out of this, Verse 15, this is talking about the dead and those who are still alive and both are coming back with Jesus to meet him in the clouds."

Maybe a typo because NO WHERE does verse 15 say that those alive are coming back with Christ.

Verse 14 : them also which sleep/died in Jesus will God bring with him.
verse 15 : For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord
shall not prevent them which are asleep

verse 16: The Lord is descending which means coming down from the Third Heaven, the voice of archangel and trumpet are sound, and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

verse 17: AFTER that, we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Let's take a look and see another way Paul is saying, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord. Let's go to 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Now we see how all this verses and scriptures connection with each other. Last Verse 17. Now we will meet the Lord in the clouds, those that are dead in Christ and those who are still alive and made it out the great tribulation or out of the place of safety (wilderness). Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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#28
When our Savior returns on the clouds those who sleep in the hope of Him will betaken up to meet Him first followed immediately by all who yet are alive. This,s, I suppose, is the resurrections, all will be transformed in body I believe.

The rapture spoken of a lot in movies are is not mentioned in the Word as it has been depicted by many. If the reunion is as described in the Word, it cannot be as depicted by Hollywood. It is plainly written in the Book.
Can anybody give a clear definition of the term "rapture"? Is that a sudden disappearance like "puff"? An ascension like Jesus or the two witnesses? Or deliverance that sends us into a hiding place and nourishes us for three and a half years?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#29
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Your thoughts!
This is "the resurrection and the life" verse so, is the rapture the life as distinct from the resurrection? Rather, I think, the distinction is between the reality of those (who believe in Him) that (physically) die' hope of resurrection and that of those that 'yet shall live,' (shall"" as in 'will live' as opposed to 'shalt' meaning 'should') being of the same category as those 'crossing over' into a paradoxical here/but not here, there/but not there, yet/but not yet reality of existence in Christ whom will never die, but live yet as he dies or "never die but, as Jesus had just spoken in a preceding verse, sleep.

I hope that terribly long run-on sentence wasn't too hard to follow. :oops:
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#30
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die (physical death, i.e., death of the body), yet shall he live (live spiritually, i.e., retain their spirit at death and go to Heaven), 26 and whoever lives (lives spiritually) and believes in me shall never die (eternal life). Do you believe this?”
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#31
Let's take a look and see another way Paul is saying, we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord. Let's go to 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Now we see how all this verses and scriptures connection with each other. Last Verse 17. Now we will meet the Lord in the clouds, those that are dead in Christ and those who are still alive and made it out the great tribulation or out of the place of safety (wilderness). Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
100% Correct = there is only one Second Coming of Christ whereby the dead in Him are the First to be Raised UP.
AFTER that all the alive/remaining Saints are Caught UP.

So in essence we have the first group called the Sprouts and the second group called the Ketchups.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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#32
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Your thoughts!
I don't see how this verse relates to the title of this thread. Can you explain?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#33
I don't see how this verse relates to the title of this thread. Can you explain?
Since Jesus Himself in "the Resurrection" He comes PERSONALLY with the saints who have passed on in order to give them resurrection bodies. He does not send His angels, but comes personally at the Resurrection/Rapture (one event). Which means that Matthew 24:31 is NOT about the Rapture.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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#34
Since Jesus Himself in "the Resurrection" He comes PERSONALLY with the saints who have passed on in order to give them resurrection bodies. He does not send His angels, but comes personally at the Resurrection/Rapture (one event). Which means that Matthew 24:31 is NOT about the Rapture.
Seems most people think of "rapture" as that trip to heaven in glorified bodies. But there aren't any verses that describe that trip.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#35
Paul calls the 7th Trump 'the LAST TRUMP' or 'trump of God' because he hadn't read Revelation to know how many there were.


The resurrection of THE DEAD aka the resurrection of the just and the unjust aka them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


CAN NOT BE 'caught up' BECAUSE 1. the unjust can not receive immortality and 2. the judgment of THE DEAD doesn't take place until the end of the Lords Day.


Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

some to everlasting life

some to damnation


And those who didn't resurrect when Christ returned once THE DEAD have been judged are THEN


13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


THE HARVEST AT THE END OF THE WORLD IS EITHER FOR WHEAT OR TARES, THOSE WHO ENDURED TO THE END OR THOSE WHO FELL AWAY, THOSE WHO OVERCAME OR THOSE WHO WORSHIPPED THE IMAGE, THOSE WHO STOOD OR THOSE WHO BOUGHT AND SOLD, THOSE WHO WERE GIVEN UP TO TRIAL OR THOSE WHO TOOK THE MARK, THOSE WHO REMAINED FAITHFUL OR THOSE WHO WERE DECEIVED, THOSE WHO STAYED VIRGINS OR THOSE WHO WERE WITH CHILD, ETC.


THE ANGELS GATHER THE ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS AND HEAVEN, NOT FROM THE DEAD

NOTHING TAKES PLACE PRE TRIB EXCEPT WHAT CHRIST TOLD US WOULD, HE DIDN'T FORGET ANYTHING

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.


CHRIST CAME FOR THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF ISRAEL. If anyone thinks that for the past 2000 years there have been NONE of who Christ came for in HIS CHURCH, HIS BODY well, they have been deceived. If anyone TRIES TO DIVIDE WHAT CHRIST HAS BROUGHT TOGETHER, i feel sorry for them. If anyone thinks GOD wouldn't do that, they have never studied HIS WORDS and are living their own religion, not living HIS REALITY. Salvation was opened up for the gentiles to JOIN, not INSTEAD OF. Judah has remained BLIND to Christ. The OTHER 10, 11, 12 OR 13 TRIBES (depends on when counting) scattered to the world BECAME CHRISTIANS AS SOON AS THEY HEARD HIS VOICE. WE ARE LIKE SHEEP LEAD TO THE SLAUGHTER, not leaving everything for someone else to do or quitting before the work is done to go to a feast while others go to war. THAT IS SO UN RIGHTEOUS, i CAN'T believe anyone falls for it. GOD NEVER CHANGES AND IS JUST THEREFORE MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO TREAT ONE GENERATION DIFFERENT THAN ANOTHER WHICH REQUIRES HIM TO VOID HIS OWN WORDS.

WHY DO I WRITE THESE THINGS? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN WHAT IS WRITTEN.


Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

GO AHEAD, DIVIDE UP WHAT THE LORD DIED TO BRING TOGETHER. LET'S SEE HOW WELL THAT IS GOING TO GO OVER ON JUDGMENT DAY. Far from being pre trib raptured His wrath is going to fall upon those who TAKE PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUNESS. BE LUCKY to be amongst the dead that rise.

Me? I believe HIM when He says "And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die'.

Believest thou this?

Not if you believe someone who never dies can or will be found amongst the DEAD at any time anywhere for any reason.



Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

IT IS FLAT OUT A LIE THAT THE CHURCH IS A SEPARATE ENTITY especially because THE ONLY REASON FOR IT IS PRE TRIB RAPTURE DOCTRINE.


Hosea 4:1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

Hosea 4:2 By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

Hosea 4:3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

Hosea 4:4 Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest.

Hosea 4:5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.






Hosea 6:4 O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hosea 6:7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.


 
Dec 15, 2021
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#36
Since Jesus Himself in "the Resurrection" He comes PERSONALLY with the saints who have passed on in order to give them resurrection bodies. He does not send His angels, but comes personally at the Resurrection/Rapture (one event). Which means that Matthew 24:31 is NOT about the Rapture.

He meets up PERSONALLY and brings us to the Father on our last day, but comes with the angels, saints and armies at the 2nd Advent.


FLESH isn't resurrected, EVER. No one, never. As we have born the earth we will bear the heavenly. The MOST this flesh body 'provides' is a 'seed', A BARE GRAIN. NOT TWO. ONE.

Breath/spirit/soul leave the earth flesh and what is left is a carcass going back to dust. WHAT is raised is is raised in WHAT EVER BODY GOD GIVES. Wheat or some other. Immortal or still mortal. ALL imperishable EXCEPT of course, in the lake of Fire when HELL gives it up.
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#37
CORRECT

The rapture is never mentioned in the Gospels because it cannot occur before the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ.
Thus His Announcement that the LIFE of GOD has come for HE is the Resurrection.

When the Gospel is preached in all the world - then HIS Second Coming and the Resurrection of His Saints/Elect/Church.
The OT Prophets and Christ Himself would never speak of a "rapture" because it is subordinate to the Resurrection which is the TRIUMPH of GOD over Death for ALL who died in Christ.

There will be a rapture AFTER the Resurrection of the dead in Christ for only one reason.

According to scripture - do you know that reason?
If the DEAD DON'T RISE then Christ isn't risen.

What it DOESN'T SAY is If Christ don't rise then Christ isn't risen.


Firstfruits of THEM THAT SLEPT.
Who was 'sleeping' at that time? Those who died under THE LAW.


ALL souls who were ever amongst the dead ROSE WITH HIM. SINCE that time we are SAVED FROM DEATH. So can't be amongst the dead. Truly that simple.

If you think about it,

if THE DEAD DON'T RISE THEN WHO DO WE RULE AND REIGN OVER?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#38
He meets up PERSONALLY and brings us to the Father on our last day, but comes with the angels, saints and armies at the 2nd Advent.
Another person confusing and confounding the Resurrection/Rapture with the Second Coming of Christ. TWO ENTIRELY DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT EVENTS.

Did you know that "the last day" is a metaphor for a period of over 1,000 years?
 
Dec 15, 2021
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#39
Another person confusing and confounding the Resurrection/Rapture with the Second Coming of Christ. TWO ENTIRELY DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT EVENTS.

Did you know that "the last day" is a metaphor for a period of over 1,000 years?

Did you know this word?



2990. lanthanó
Strong's Concordance
lanthanó: to escape notice​
Original Word: λανθάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lanthanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lan-than'-o)
Definition: to escape notice
Usage: I am hidden (concealed), lie hid, escape notice, sometimes with acc. of person from whom concealment takes place; I do so and so unconsciously, unknown to myself, I shut my eyes to so and so.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from a prim. root lath-
Definition
to escape notice
NASB Translation
escape...notice (2), escape notice (1), escaped notice (1), escapes...notice (1), without knowing (1).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2990: λανθάνω

λανθάνω (lengthened form of λήθω); 2 aorist ἔλαθόν, (whence Latinlatere); the Sept. several times for נֶעְלַם, etc.; (from Homer down); to be hidden: Mark 7:24; Luke 8:47; τινα, to be hidden from one, Acts 26:26; 2 Peter 3:5 (on which see θέλω, 1 under the end), 8; accusative to the well-known classic usage, joined in a finite form to a participle equivalent to secretly, unawares, without knowing (cf. Matthiae, § 552 β.; Passow, under the word, ii., p. 18{b}; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, A. 2); Winers Grammar, § 54, 4; (Buttmann, § 144, 14)): ἔλαθόν ξενίσαντες, have unawares entertained, Hebrews 13:2. (Compare: ἐκλανθάνω, ἐπιλανθάνω (λανθάνομαι).)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
to escape notice
A prolonged form of a primary verb, which is used only as an alternate in certain tenses; to lie hid (literally or figuratively); often used adverbially, unwittingly -- be hid, be ignorant of, unawares.​


as it came from biblehub
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,196
6,539
113
#40
Can anybody give a clear definition of the term "rapture"? Is that a sudden disappearance like "puff"? An ascension like Jesus or the two witnesses? Or deliverance that sends us into a hiding place and nourishes us for three and a half years?
Sure, that's easy, but I do understand why you would ask. Many folks don't understand it.

Here, lemme give you an example of "rapture" used in a sentence:

Daddy seed ya steeling cookies from the jar, and he raptured knuckles.

Understand now?