Resurrection

[Noose]

I didnt make it up see . Most Everyone knows this scriputre I cant believe you are ignorant of it. Check it out.
1 thessalonians 4:13-18

Sorry noose I dont make up stories, please dont accuse me of that. I just read the Bible whats there.

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

I don't see anything to suggest that these things will happen in the distant future especially if one concentrates on the word 'we'. If Paul was indeed, exclusively talking of a distant future event, he would have easily said:

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that they who will be still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, they who will be still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so they will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Nothing prevented Paul from using the future tense.

 

[Jackson123]

Then why was it necessary for them to talk about their deaths while preaching the gospel?

Peter want them remember his teaching after his death.

The death of Jesus to forgive our sin, The death of Peter can not forgive our sin. The life of Peter teaching the way to salvation

 

[Noose]

Peter want them remember his teaching after his death.

The death of Jesus to forgive our sin, The death of Peter can not forgive our sin. The life of Peter teaching the way to salvation

He said, "15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times."

Meaning that his efforts go beyond the grave. If he wanted to mean what you think he meant he would have said:

15And I will make every effort to ensure that you will be able to recall these things at all times after my departure.

There's a difference in the two sentences.

 

[Jackson123]

He said, "15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times."

Meaning that his efforts go beyond the grave. If he wanted to mean what you think he meant he would have said:

15And I will make every effort to ensure that you will be able to recall these things at all times after my departure.

There's a difference in the two sentences.

So you believe that after death, Peter able to guide the living?

Jesus send Holy Spirit to help us, is Peter God Holy Spirit?

No

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Noose]

So you believe that after death, Peter able to guide the living?

Jesus send Holy Spirit to help us, is Peter God Holy Spirit?

No

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Not just believing but it is what what it is.

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

Heb 11:.....
37They were stoned, they were sawed in two,d they were put to death by the sword. They went around in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, oppressed, and mistreated. 38The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and hid in caves and holes in the ground.

39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

Heb 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles,and let us run with endurance the race set out for us.

 

[Jackson123]

Not just believing but it is what what it is.

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

Heb 11:.....
37They were stoned, they were sawed in two,d they were put to death by the sword. They went around in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, oppressed, and mistreated. 38The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and hid in caves and holes in the ground.

39These were all commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. 40God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

Heb 12:1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles,and let us run with endurance the race set out for us.

Read from verse 10 bro,

Verse 11.for we wich live always delivered unto death.

In his ministry Paul take risk, people may kill him (the death work on us/apostle)

ASo you have a life(know and accept the Lord from Paul and apostles )

So the death work in us(apostle) mean in their ministry's the apostle threatened with death.

This verse do not mean the death Peter come and dwell in our body.

Holy Spirit is not Peter.


2 Cor 4

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

 

[Noose]

Read from verse 10 bro,

Verse 11.for we wich live always delivered unto death.

In his ministry Paul take risk, people may kill him (the death work on us/apostle)

ASo you have a life(know and accept the Lord from Paul and apostles )

So the death work in us(apostle) mean in their ministry's the apostle threatened with death.

This verse do not mean the death Peter come and dwell in our body.

Holy Spirit is not Peter.


2 Cor 4

10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Paul is talking about resurrection:

2 Cor 4:

13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

Is Paul talking about death and resurrection of his ministry?

It is always funny how people don't want it to mean what it means. Why must this passage not mean resurrection?
Paul is saying that his resurrection will benefit his listeners just like Jesus' resurrection benefited the apostles and i know why- the dead in Christ resurrect and indwell a living believer. That is the truth.

 

[Jackson123]

Paul is talking about resurrection:

2 Cor 4:

13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.

Is Paul talking about death and resurrection of his ministry?

It is always funny how people don't want it to mean what it means. Why must this passage not mean resurrection?
Paul is saying that his resurrection will benefit his listeners just like Jesus' resurrection benefited the apostles and i know why- the dead in Christ resurrect and indwell a living believer. That is the truth.

But not say the death Peter dwell on us

 

[Noose]

But not say the death Peter dwell on us

So the earlier question was, how does Paul's death benefit his listeners? how?

 

[Lanolin]

Cloud of witnesses, because in the resurrection Jesus comes with the clouds?

Noose do you pray to the dead saints that have passed on, just wondering, as you seem kind of catholic in your beliefs.

 

[Lanolin]

Its not saying Paul dwells in us. Hes saying the one who raised Jesus eg God, will raise us. PAul does not dwell in us, the Holy spirit does. When he talks about the resurrection hes talking about the future God WILL raise us together.

I dont know why you arguing what we already know Noose.

 

[Lanolin]

Jackson you explain very well I dont quite uderstand what Noose is presenting that when we die we indwell with other believers, no thats not resurrection thats reincarnation.

This thread is about resurrection. There is only one who raises us that is God we dont raise others and we dont go dwell in other bodies. We all keep our own souls that are saved we dont swap souls with other bodies.

 

[Jackson123]

So the earlier question was, how does Paul's death benefit his listeners? how?

Paul death for the gospel. Gospel save human.

In that sense Paul death brought benefit, he willing to die for the gospel.

Not in the sense Paul become Holy Spirit and able to dwell in billions living Christian.

Holy Spirit is omnipresent so He able to dwell in billions people in every country. Paul is human, do not has that ability.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson you explain very well I dont quite uderstand what Noose is presenting that when we die we indwell with other believers, no thats not resurrection thats reincarnation.

This thread is about resurrection. There is only one who raises us that is God we dont raise others and we dont go dwell in other bodies. We all keep our own souls that are saved we dont swap souls with other bodies.

Thank lanolin.

 

[Noose]

Cloud of witnesses, because in the resurrection Jesus comes with the clouds?

Noose do you pray to the dead saints that have passed on, just wondering, as you seem kind of catholic in your beliefs.

Yes, Jesus comes with clouds of heaven which means two things; the resurrection is happening because Jesus is able to come with witnesses (10000 of his saints as Jude puts it), and there's no rapture at all.
I don't pray to dead saints but:

1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

 

[Noose]

Its not saying Paul dwells in us. Hes saying the one who raised Jesus eg God, will raise us. PAul does not dwell in us, the Holy spirit does. When he talks about the resurrection hes talking about the future God WILL raise us together.

I dont know why you arguing what we already know Noose.

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

I don't see anything indicating a distant future in this. Paul is talking to people by the way of a letter and telling them that his death will benefit them, even if Paul is talking about a distant future, how does his death benefit anyone because he clearly says his death will benefit people.

 

[Noose]

Jackson you explain very well I dont quite uderstand what Noose is presenting that when we die we indwell with other believers, no thats not resurrection thats reincarnation.

This thread is about resurrection. There is only one who raises us that is God we dont raise others and we dont go dwell in other bodies. We all keep our own souls that are saved we dont swap souls with other bodies.

Reincarnation or not, it is biblical; didn't the spirit of Elijah indwell John the baptist?

 

[Noose]

Paul death for the gospel. Gospel save human.

In that sense Paul death brought benefit, he willing to die for the gospel.

Not in the sense Paul become Holy Spirit and able to dwell in billions living Christian.

Holy Spirit is omnipresent so He able to dwell in billions people in every country. Paul is human, do not has that ability.

The bible says, "..the Lord cometh with 10000 of His saints..", it doesn't say 'the Lord becomes 10000 of his saints', so no, Paul doesn't become the Holy spirit but he comes with the holy spirit amongst the heavenly joyful assembly.

Heb 12:22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

 

[Jackson123]

The bible says, "..the Lord cometh with 10000 of His saints..", it doesn't say 'the Lord becomes 10000 of his saints', so no, Paul doesn't become the Holy spirit but he comes with the holy spirit amongst the heavenly joyful assembly.

Heb 12:22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

I do not understand what you try to say.

You believe Holy Spirit in every believer or not?
Do you believe Paul dwell in every believer?

 

[Noose]

I do not understand what you try to say.

You believe Holy Spirit in every believer or not?
Do you believe Paul dwell in every believer?

What does this mean:

Heb 12:
18You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” c 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” d

22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.