Revelation 17

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Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#1
Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. Revelation 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. Revelation 17:11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. Revelation 17:8 shows that this beat kingdom existed in the past. Daniel and revelation show us that this best will have geographical areas that encompass the Lion Babylon, bear Persia, and Greece leopard. There are only 2 empires before John that held this land for a good length of time and that is the Person and Greece empires. We know 5 kings have fallen at John's time and Rome existed at the time so it can not be, " once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. "Another kingdom is to come after Rome and have power over the beautiful land. Islam including the Ottoman Empire came after Rome and ruled over Jerusalem for about 1300 years. England's mandate was from 1918-1948. did not control the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard, but the Ottoman Empire did control the areas. This would make Islam or the Ottoman Empire the 7 head. At this time Islam wants to revive the Caliphate. If the Caliphate is revived and rules the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard it would be of the 7 but also an 8th.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
#2
Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. Revelation 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. Revelation 17:11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. Revelation 17:8 shows that this beat kingdom existed in the past. Daniel and revelation show us that this best will have geographical areas that encompass the Lion Babylon, bear Persia, and Greece leopard. There are only 2 empires before John that held this land for a good length of time and that is the Person and Greece empires. We know 5 kings have fallen at John's time and Rome existed at the time so it can not be, " once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. "Another kingdom is to come after Rome and have power over the beautiful land. Islam including the Ottoman Empire came after Rome and ruled over Jerusalem for about 1300 years. England's mandate was from 1918-1948. did not control the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard, but the Ottoman Empire did control the areas. This would make Islam or the Ottoman Empire the 7 head. At this time Islam wants to revive the Caliphate. If the Caliphate is revived and rules the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard it would be of the 7 but also an 8th.

Why would you start with Revelation 17:8 which is referring to a beast(nation/kingdom) that is in the abyss/pit at the time Rev.17:8 was written (1st century ad) and come to the conclusion that it's a religion(Islam/Muslim ) that never existed prior to the 1st century ad? Wouldn't it make more sense to think it's an kingdom/nation that existed prior to the 1st century ad and that had received an deadly wound in battle(sword) and no longer had it's kingdom/nation(was,IS NOT,yet is)?
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#3
Why would you start with Revelation 17:8 which is referring to a beast(nation/kingdom) that is in the abyss/pit at the time Rev.17:8 was written (1st century ad) and come to the conclusion that it's a religion(Islam/Muslim ) that never existed prior to the 1st century ad? Wouldn't it make more sense to think it's an kingdom/nation that existed prior to the 1st century ad and that had received an deadly wound in battle(sword) and no longer had it's kingdom/nation(was,IS NOT,yet is)?
look at the old testament you will find the moon god in the book of Danel with Babylon and Persia. The moon god has many names including Sin, Nanna, Suen among others. Also in the book of Judges Gideon comes across the crescent moon jewelry.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
746
252
63
#4
Daniel had a vision of 4 beasts that were different than each other.

One like a lion, Babylon which represents human religion, the occult, and when they lost the revelation of God they were known as the kingdom of man.

One was like a bear, Medo-Persia, which represents physical cruelty in war.

One was like a leopard, Greece, which represents human wisdom.

One was like iron, Roman Empire which represents pushing for power, dominion.

The first 3 beasts will never have physical dominion again, but their ways are still on earth.

The fourth beast does not lose their physical dominion until Jesus puts the world down.

10 horns come from the fourth beast which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which the Bible says they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

All 4 kingdoms ways are at the beast kingdom.

10 horns, Roman Empire, physical dominion of the beast kingdom.

Lion, Babylon, human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man.

The beast kingdom is known as Babylon but this is Babylon in spirit for she will never have physical dominion again.

She represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man which is what the beast kingdom is about.

Bear, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty in war, which they go against all people who oppose them.

Leopard, Greece, human wisdom.

The kingdom of man in its entirety.

There are 7 kings.

5 are fallen, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece.

One is at the time John wrote Revelation, which is the Roman Empire.

One is to come which is the 10 horn kingdom the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which will continue for a short space which is three and one half years.

The 8th king is the antichrist which rules for the three and one half years.

The 8th king is of the 7 kings because the devil influenced those 7 kingdoms which are 7 heads.

In Revelation chapter 12 the dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns, and the crowns are on the heads which is Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by the 7 kingdoms.

In chapter 13 the crowns are on the horns which is Satan deceiving people in the natural realm as the antichrist.

The Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts the world down.

The new age movement will cause the world to rebel against God, and the antichrist will try to replace the current belief system of the world to the new age movement belief system.

Which they interpret the Bible according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual, and a god, and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master, and there is no God, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher.

The new age movement is a Caucasian led plan which they focus on the Aryans which they call white people.

They believe they are in the 5th root race, Aryans, 6th sub race, of the evolutionary process, and the next process after that will be in 28,000 years.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement which they follow Lucifer believing he gave intelligence to mankind, and he is a god, and an alien, and will cause people to evolve along with the New Age Christ who will be Lucifer inhabiting a human body.

They do not look at Lucifer as a fallen angel because they do not believe in a God.

It is the new age movement that will take over the world, and the Roman Empire has the dominion, and the New Age Christ will be a Caucasian man.

Babylon, and Persia, will never have any physical dominion as well as any Arab nation.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,857
1,565
113
#5
And there is the one kingdom that everyone neglects to remember that ruled from the river to Egypt when tallying up the heads and their rule,, is it because after Solomon it began to decay in sin until it eventually rejected Jesus? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_kings/4-21.htm
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,272
4,963
113
#6
Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. Revelation 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. Revelation 17:11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. Revelation 17:8 shows that this beat kingdom existed in the past. Daniel and revelation show us that this best will have geographical areas that encompass the Lion Babylon, bear Persia, and Greece leopard. There are only 2 empires before John that held this land for a good length of time and that is the Person and Greece empires. We know 5 kings have fallen at John's time and Rome existed at the time so it can not be, " once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. "Another kingdom is to come after Rome and have power over the beautiful land. Islam including the Ottoman Empire came after Rome and ruled over Jerusalem for about 1300 years. England's mandate was from 1918-1948. did not control the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard, but the Ottoman Empire did control the areas. This would make Islam or the Ottoman Empire the 7 head. At this time Islam wants to revive the Caliphate. If the Caliphate is revived and rules the areas of the Lion Babylon, Bear Persia, and Greece Leopard it would be of the 7 but also an 8th.
Amen Daniel has several visions regarding the same things so does John which I’m sure is somethings you’ve seen reading your post here .

Daniels perspective in time is as Babylon is rising up to rule the earth , the first head . Before the second Persia and thiers with four heads ( geeks Alexander the Greats four generals after his death rich beast the Roman Empire johns perspective is after five of the heads have already died Ed and fallen the sixth was ruling and one was left to rise up , followed by the beast with ten horns of which three fall and he becomes the eighth among them

“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; and of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.( because three fall before him he himself becaomes the ruler of the seven remaining being the 8th)

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:7-8, 17-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Johns vision is of one beast because five are already passed Babylon , Persia , Greece have already fallen and greeces four heads have become the Roman Empire under Titus soon to be Nero. You see daniels four beasts in the description of johns but there’s so much more in revelation that requires daniels vision to be heard also

“And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:2-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And there are seven kings: five are fallen,( the past )

and one is, ( johns present day )

and the other is not yet come; ( future ) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


( but now another an 8th )

And the beast that was, ( past ) and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of Lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8, 10-14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

also ezekiel and zechariah have sections pertaining to this in different visions a few other prophets also make references like Isaiah and Hosea all the different perspectives makes it all reall clear and revelation just sets it all in order a narrative of indersrsndknf the biblical imagery k own from prior prophecy like a simple example

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

john did t see two olive trees standing before the lord of the earth , Ezekiel did johns just referencing it

“and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:2-3, 11, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Johns two witnesses ….are a reference to Ezekiel’s vision and then revealed on the Mount of transfiguration in the gospel as to the identity of the teo stending by the lord of all