Revelation Timeline

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DP

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I'd advise those not aware of the events involving the 70 weeks prophecy from the Book of Daniel to be careful of listening to those who say all those periods given were fulfilled in the past, because the final symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 has NOT been fulfilled yet today.

Nor was it Christ that is the prince involving the destruction of the city in Dan.9.

Nor did Christ confirm (or strengthen) ANY covenant in Jerusalem for a period of 7 years, and then BREAK IT, like the Dan.9:27 verse is declaring a coming false one will do.

These folks want you to concentrate JUST on the Dan.9 chapter about the 70 weeks prophecy and not continue with more of the given prophecy in the Daniel 11 chapter about the false one there which makes the "league" with a small people in Jerusalem (i.e, the confirming the covenant of Dan.9:27) which is also the "vile person" who will place the abomination (idol) that maketh desolate (makes the temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate), and that is specifically the warning our Lord Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters.
 

Bookends

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Aug 28, 2012
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The Jews were in exile in Babylon for 70 years.

In Leviticius 26 God said, "23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

So the seventy weeks is the extension of their punishment, 70x7. Initially they were punished 70 years, but God said He would punish them 7 times that amount if they didn't fully repent and return to Him wholeheartedly. Israels return to the land wasn't really a picnic yah know! Lots to struggles, wars, etc. etc. Earthly Israel never really recovered after the Babylonian captivity, they never had a king, yes they lived in the land but they didn't run things.

However, true Israel, believing Israel did receive their king! Jesus did restore the kingdom and right now God sees Israel as if they're sitting right next to Christ in heavenly places. Jesus said to the believing disciples, "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. (Luke 12:32)..
What is also quit interesting, Peter came to Jesus and asked Him how often should he forgive his brother, up to seven times? Remarkably Jesus answered and said, "22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven (Matthew 18:21).

Hmmmm, where have we heard this before?

For the whole length of the 490 years Israel wasn't uprooted again, although at times persecuted by other kings etc. But now Jesus is making proclamation, that there is an end to forgiveness for someone (however, not for us humans who live up to only a 80-100 years if we are lucky, or in some cases unlucky). This someone, who has an end to forgiveness is physical ancient Israel itself. Jesus proclaimed that Israel/Jerusalem would be destroyed and (His) armies would move against her. The fact that the destruction of Israel didn't happen till 40 years later really has no consequence, the judgment was handed down by Jesus Himself within the 70th week. Jesus, being a gracious as He is, gave everyone individually (not the national entity) approximately 40 years to repent. The destruction of Israel wasn't part of the 70 weeks, but an event to come after.
 
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Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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I'd advise those not aware of the events involving the 70 weeks prophecy from the Book of Daniel to be careful of listening to those who say all those periods given were fulfilled in the past, because the final symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 has NOT been fulfilled yet today.

Nor was it Christ that is the prince involving the destruction of the city in Dan.9.

Nor did Christ confirm (or strengthen) ANY covenant in Jerusalem for a period of 7 years, and then BREAK IT, like the Dan.9:27 verse is declaring a coming false one will do.

These folks want you to concentrate JUST on the Dan.9 chapter about the 70 weeks prophecy and not continue with more of the given prophecy in the Daniel 11 chapter about the false one there which makes the "league" with a small people in Jerusalem (i.e, the confirming the covenant of Dan.9:27) which is also the "vile person" who will place the abomination (idol) that maketh desolate (makes the temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate), and that is specifically the warning our Lord Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters.
Jesus did confirm His covenant with His disciples at the Last Supper, right before Christ's death, right when they all needed to hear it the most. The middle of the 70th week. It happened 3 and 1/2 years after His inauguration of His earthly ministry. And He did bring an end to sacrifice and offering because He fulfilled the meaning of the sacrificial law. An animal sacrificed on the alter after Christ's death was an abomination to God because Christ was the ultimate sacrifice to end all sacrifices.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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I'd advise those not aware of the events involving the 70 weeks prophecy from the Book of Daniel to be careful of listening to those who say all those periods given were fulfilled in the past, because the final symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 has NOT been fulfilled yet today.

Nor was it Christ that is the prince involving the destruction of the city in Dan.9.

Nor did Christ confirm (or strengthen) ANY covenant in Jerusalem for a period of 7 years, and then BREAK IT, like the Dan.9:27 verse is declaring a coming false one will do.

These folks want you to concentrate JUST on the Dan.9 chapter about the 70 weeks prophecy and not continue with more of the given prophecy in the Daniel 11 chapter about the false one there which makes the "league" with a small people in Jerusalem (i.e, the confirming the covenant of Dan.9:27) which is also the "vile person" who will place the abomination (idol) that maketh desolate (makes the temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate), and that is specifically the warning our Lord Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters.
This dispensational theory falls apart unless you add a parenthesis (GAP) between the 69th and 70th week. Where in the Word do you justify that? As Daniel, not me, stated before in Daniel 9:24 70 years are determined, these seventy years are a whole and lumped together, but later broken down to further explain the details.

Daniel 11 deals with another prophecy which isn't at all related to Daniel 9. This prophecy deals with a time within the 490 years when The kings of the North (Antiochus Epiphanes) and South (Egypt- Ptolemy) were at war, with Jerusalem stuck in the middle.

However, like Gary, I know I'm wasting my time with most dispensationalist, because their eschatology theology is so deeply ingrained in their minds that they can't stop to look at the truth or what any opposing system has to say. Its just not exciting enough, history is boring, it doesn't sell Christian books and movies. God couldn't have just focus on Christ alone for this last age, no, the dispensationalist tell you to focus on Israel (the counterfeit).
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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I'd advise those not aware of the events involving the 70 weeks prophecy from the Book of Daniel to be careful of listening to those who say all those periods given were fulfilled in the past, because the final symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 has NOT been fulfilled yet today.

Nor was it Christ that is the prince involving the destruction of the city in Dan.9.

Nor did Christ confirm (or strengthen) ANY covenant in Jerusalem for a period of 7 years, and then BREAK IT, like the Dan.9:27 verse is declaring a coming false one will do.

These folks want you to concentrate JUST on the Dan.9 chapter about the 70 weeks prophecy and not continue with more of the given prophecy in the Daniel 11 chapter about the false one there which makes the "league" with a small people in Jerusalem (i.e, the confirming the covenant of Dan.9:27) which is also the "vile person" who will place the abomination (idol) that maketh desolate (makes the temple in Jerusalem spiritually desolate), and that is specifically the warning our Lord Jesus gave about the "abomination of desolation" event from Daniel in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters.
Galatians says that Jesus confirmed the covenant when he came 2000 years ago. When Jesus died confirming this covenant, the need for animal scrifice ended. Knowing this, why would anyone think Daniel 9:27 is a broken 7 years peace treaty between Antichrist and Israel? A peace treaty or breaking a peace treaty is not even mentioned in Daniel 9:27, nor are Israel and Antichrist mentioned.

Galatians 3:17 KJV
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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No covenant was ever made by my Lord Jesus with His disciples, nor Israel, for a 7 year period with His breaking it in the middle of a 7 years period. Christ's Ministry in no way fits the Dan.9:27 prophecy.

Instead, Jesus made an everlasting covenant (New Covenant) with those who believe on Him as The Savior and His death and resurrection. This is why He is NOT the one in Dan.9:27.

The one of Dan.9:27 is the one shown in Dan.11 that comes to power peacefully, and makes a "league" with a "small people" in Jerusalem, and then later ends the sacrifices and places an idol abomination in the Jerusalem temple in false worship. The closest blueprint of history of one doing that was Antiochus Epiphenes who in 170 B.C. took Jerusalem, went into the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and then setup an idol in pagan Zeus worship. Yet that was back in 170 B.C., when around 200 years later at Jesus 1st coming, He warned of the coming "abomination of desolation" event in a temple in Jerusalem for the end of days.

This points to another temple in Jerusalem built for the final end of days prior to Christ's 2nd coming, and the re-establishing of sacrifices in Jerusalem, and the false one coming there to play God with ending sacrifices and setting an idol abomination instead (Matt.24; 2 Thess.2:4; Rev.13:11 forward).

Orthodox Jews today in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to built another temple and establish old covenant sacrifices again. They have also been finding Levitical priests and making the temple articles of old covenant worship, along with the Jewish Sanhedrin having formed up again.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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No covenant was ever made by my Lord Jesus with His disciples, nor Israel, for a 7 year period with His breaking it in the middle of a 7 years period. Christ's Ministry in no way fits the Dan.9:27 prophecy.

Instead, Jesus made an everlasting covenant (New Covenant) with those who believe on Him as The Savior and His death and resurrection. This is why He is NOT the one in Dan.9:27.

The one of Dan.9:27 is the one shown in Dan.11 that comes to power peacefully, and makes a "league" with a "small people" in Jerusalem, and then later ends the sacrifices and places an idol abomination in the Jerusalem temple in false worship. The closest blueprint of history of one doing that was Antiochus Epiphenes who in 170 B.C. took Jerusalem, went into the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, and then setup an idol in pagan Zeus worship. Yet that was back in 170 B.C., when around 200 years later at Jesus 1st coming, He warned of the coming "abomination of desolation" event in a temple in Jerusalem for the end of days.

This points to another temple in Jerusalem built for the final end of days prior to Christ's 2nd coming, and the re-establishing of sacrifices in Jerusalem, and the false one coming there to play God with ending sacrifices and setting an idol abomination instead (Matt.24; 2 Thess.2:4; Rev.13:11 forward).

Orthodox Jews today in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to built another temple and establish old covenant sacrifices again. They have also been finding Levitical priests and making the temple articles of old covenant worship, along with the Jewish Sanhedrin having formed up again.
There's nothing in Daniel 9:27 about breaking a covenant... where do you get that from?
 

DP

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Galatians says that Jesus confirmed the covenant when he came 2000 years ago. When Jesus died confirming this covenant, the need for animal scrifice ended. Knowing this, why would anyone think Daniel 9:27 is a broken 7 years peace treaty between Antichrist and Israel? A peace treaty or breaking a peace treaty is not even mentioned in Daniel 9:27, nor are Israel and Antichrist mentioned.

Galatians 3:17 KJV
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The Dan.9:27 verse says that one of that verse makes a covenant (or strengthens) for a period of 7 years (via the final 7, which is the "one week" of that verse), and then after 3.5 years causes sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and THEN causes the abomination that maketh desolate to be placed in the temple (Dan.11:23 & 11:31 is of the Dan.9:27 events).

Jesus did NONE of that. What Jesus did was come to offer the New Covenant, which is an Everlasting Covenant that He has NEVER broken, nor will it ever be broken and substituted with an idol abomination ("abomination of desolation").

Gal.3:17 was about the confirming of God's Promise of Salvation by FAITH to Abraham, 430 years BEFORE the old covenant was offered. That Promise by FAITH to Abraham was The NEW COVENANT, which is what Apostle Paul was explaining there in Gal.3. The weight of your argument from the doctrine of men you espouse is how Jesus broke the old covenant, which He did no such confirming of the old covenant.

But the "vile person" of Dan.11 is to come and confirm the old covenant at the end of this world, which is why in the middle of the Dan.9:27 "one week" that vile person will end it by ending sacrifices and the oblation and by placing the idol abomination in idol worship in Jerusalem.
 

DP

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Here is the Dan.11 prophecy about the "vile person" which is the one of the Dan.9:27 verse:

Dan 11:21-32
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

That "vile person" rises up, and takes over the kingdom peacefully using flatteries. He makes a "league" with a "small people" in Jerusalem, showing certain leaders in Jerusalem will be his allies working with him.


24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him.
26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain.
27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Then he will work against the king of the south and his army, but the king of the south will fail.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

That is the first hint that the "league" the "vile person" made with a "small people" in Jerusalem involved confirming the old covenant with them. And now at this verse the vile person's heart is against that old covenant.

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Because the next verses mention his taking away the sacrifices, this above v.30 also shows the "league" of verse 23 he made involved the establishing of the old covenant in Jerusalem again, which explains how sacrifices and the oblation have started up again. Here he has "indignation against the holy covenant", and meets with those in Jerusalem that forsake the holy covenant, to end it, or BREAK it, if you will, and establish an abomination instead:

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
KJV

That "vile person" will use arms to pollute the sanctuary. What sanctuary? The temple that will be built as included with the "league" of v.23, which is how there will be a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem in order to place that idol abomination into. That v.31 is about the "abomination of desolation" event in a temple in Jerusalem that Jesus warned about in Matt.24 and Mark 13.

Be careful brethren, of anyone leading you astray from understanding how this Dan.11 Scripture is a detail of the events in Dan.9:27, which is definitely NOT about our Lord Jesus, nor His 1st coming.
 

DP

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This dispensational theory falls apart unless you add a parenthesis (GAP) between the 69th and 70th week. Where in the Word do you justify that? As Daniel, not me, stated before in Daniel 9:24 70 years are determined, these seventy years are a whole and lumped together, but later broken down to further explain the details.

Daniel 11 deals with another prophecy which isn't at all related to Daniel 9. This prophecy deals with a time within the 490 years when The kings of the North (Antiochus Epiphanes) and South (Egypt- Ptolemy) were at war, with Jerusalem stuck in the middle.

However, like Gary, I know I'm wasting my time with most dispensationalist, because their eschatology theology is so deeply ingrained in their minds that they can't stop to look at the truth or what any opposing system has to say. Its just not exciting enough, history is boring, it doesn't sell Christian books and movies. God couldn't have just focus on Christ alone for this last age, no, the dispensationalist tell you to focus on Israel (the counterfeit).
I don't hold to Darby's Dispensational theories. I don't believe in a Pre-trib Rapture either, just in case you want to try the discredit tricks with that too in getting off the subject.

About your GAP vanity, then you need to ask God Himself that question, because there is a noted gap in between Isaiah 61:1-2 because in Luke 4 Jesus stopped reading that after a specific point, because the last two phrases of Isa.61:2 are for His future 2nd coming. So no one added a gap to the 70 weeks Daniel prophecy. It has been there all along.

Dan.11 relates DIRECTLY to the Dan.9:27 verse, and other parts of the Book of Daniel involving the transgression of desolation, which is what the "abomination of desolation" Jesus quoted in Matt.24 and Mark 13 is about for the very end. And that warning Jesus gave of the "abomination of desolation" from Daniel was given to His disicples approximately 200 years AFTER Antiochus did his thing back in 170 B.C.
 

Ahwatukee

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How ya doin' KJV1611?

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
In the verse above, the covenant spoken of was the one that was made with father Abraham when God credited him with righteousness because he believed what God said about giving him a son. This covenant was given 430 years before the law was given. What Paul is saying here is that, the law, which God gave through Moses to the Israelites, does not do away with the previous covenant 430 years earlier that was given to Abraham as a promise and has nothing to do with Jesus making a covenant during the time that he was on the earth. Consequently, when God said to Abraham regarding that covenant, "I will make you the father of many nations" we as believers are the recipients of that promise, having the same faith as Abraham.

Knowing this, why would anyone think Daniel 9:27 is a broken 7 years peace treaty between Antichrist and Israel? A peace treaty or breaking a peace treaty is not even mentioned in Daniel 9:27, nor are Israel and Antichrist mentioned
Here is the scripture in question:

"After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[SUP] [/SUP]In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Now, I have included verse 26 above to demonstrate that at the end of sixty-nine of those seventy seven year periods, "the Anointed One" is said to be cut off, that is, Christ crucified, then "the ruler" of the people is mentioned. Then in verse 27, it states that "He" will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven'. The "He" in the verse must then refer back to the previous person which was spoken of, which would have to be "the ruler" of the people, who is mentioned after the Anointed One is cut off. Therefore, it is that ruler that is the one who makes the covenant for one seven year period.

why would anyone think Daniel 9:27 is a broken 7 years peace treaty between Antichrist and Israel?
Regarding the above, first of all, according to the scripture, we know that "He" the ruler, confirms a covenant with "Many" for one 'seven', that is, one seven year period. The way in which we know that the covenant is made with Israel is one, that last seven years is the completion of the decree of seventy 'sevens' that was given to Israel and Jerusalem in verse 24 and therefore, that last seven years is the fulfillment of that seventy seven years prophecy that was decreed upon Israel.

And two, after the ruler makes the covenant, it states that in the middle of the covenant, he causes the sacrifice and offerings to cease and on a wing of the temple he sets up an abomination that causes desolation. Therefore, being that the last seven years is the fulfillment of the prophecy given to Israel, this would demonstrate that the offerings and sacrifices that he causes to cease and that he sets up an abomination in the holy place within the temple, then we know that this is in reference to Israel. Furthermore, the causing of the sacrifice and offerings to cease, demonstrates that the ability to perform them was apart of the covenant that was made and that Israel is at least part of the "many" mentioned in the scripture.

All that said, the "He" in the verse does three things:

1.) He makes a covenant with many for one seven year period

2.) In the middle of the seven years, he stops the offerings and sacrifices

3.) In the middle of the seven years, he sets up an abomination in the holy place within the temple

Since there is only one person mentioned in Dan.9:27, which is he/the ruler, then he is the one performing the events referred to in Dan.27. Therefore, since He/the ruler in the verse is the one making the covenant and is also causing the offerings and sacrifices to cease, then he is also the same one who will be setting up the abomination in the temple and therein lies the problem. My point is that, if you make Jesus the "He" in the verse as the one who makes the covenant and the one who is causing the sacrifices and offerings to ceasae, then Jesus would also have to be the One who sets up the abomination, which is impossible. For one, he was said to be "cut off" (crucified) prior to the mention of "the ruler" and therefore, the Anointed One is already gone before the ruler comes. And two, the word "Bdelugma" translated as "abomination" is defined as a reeking stench, a foul odor, a detestable thing before God. That said, if you have Jesus as the one who is setting up the abomination, he would be blaspheming God the Father and himself. This being true, then Jesus cannot be the "He" mentioned in the verse, but is that ruler, the antichrist, that man of lawlessness, who is the one who will perform all three of the above mentioned.

I hope that this helps give you some understanding of this scripture.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The Dan.9:27 verse says that one of that verse makes a covenant (or strengthens) for a period of 7 years (via the final 7, which is the "one week" of that verse), and then after 3.5 years causes sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and THEN causes the abomination that maketh desolate to be placed in the temple (Dan.11:23 & 11:31 is of the Dan.9:27 events).

Jesus did NONE of that. What Jesus did was come to offer the New Covenant, which is an Everlasting Covenant that He has NEVER broken, nor will it ever be broken and substituted with an idol abomination ("abomination of desolation").

Gal.3:17 was about the confirming of God's Promise of Salvation by FAITH to Abraham, 430 years BEFORE the old covenant was offered. That Promise by FAITH to Abraham was The NEW COVENANT, which is what Apostle Paul was explaining there in Gal.3. The weight of your argument from the doctrine of men you espouse is how Jesus broke the old covenant, which He did no such confirming of the old covenant.

But the "vile person" of Dan.11 is to come and confirm the old covenant at the end of this world, which is why in the middle of the Dan.9:27 "one week" that vile person will end it by ending sacrifices and the oblation and by placing the idol abomination in idol worship in Jerusalem.
DP sorry but you're wrong right off the bat. Daniel 9:27 is not a new covenant, it is the confirmation of an existing covenant. "He shall confirm" or He shall establish the truth or correctness of something PREVIOUSLY believed. If you say otherwise then your changing the bible.

confirm - establish the truth or correctness of (something previously believed, suspected, or feared to be the case).

Show me in the bible where the Anitchrist made a covenant somewhere in the past and then later in the last days he is going to CONFIRM that covenant.... it doesn't exist.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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How ya doin' KJV1611?



In the verse above, the covenant spoken of was the one that was made with father Abraham when God credited him with righteousness because he believed what God said about giving him a son. This covenant was given 430 years before the law was given. What Paul is saying here is that, the law, which God gave through Moses to the Israelites, does not do away with the previous covenant 430 years earlier that was given to Abraham as a promise and has nothing to do with Jesus making a covenant during the time that he was on the earth. Consequently, when God said to Abraham regarding that covenant, "I will make you the father of many nations" we as believers are the recipients of that promise, having the same faith as Abraham.
Paul didn't say anything about Jesus making a new covenant during the time he was on earth, read the verse again. I mean really read it and understand what it says.

Galatians 3:17 KJV
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now read it again until you can see that Paul said that Jesus CONFIRMED the covenant God made with Abraham. Daniel 9:27 says exactly the same thing except that Daniel says it looking forward to when Jesus wil come to confirm the covenant.

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Here is the scripture in question:

"After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
Why do you conclude that the "he" that confirms the covenant is the prince that shall come? The previous verse talks about both Jesus and the prince that shall come. Just because the prince that shall come is mentioned last in the previous verse doesn't mean the "he" in the next verse is still talking about the prince that shall come.

Remember, the "he" in Daniel 9:27 is confirming an already existing covenant... he's not making a new covenant or peace treaty, he's confirming one that already exist... where is this covenant in scripture?
 

DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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DP sorry but you're wrong right off the bat. Daniel 9:27 is not a new covenant, it is the confirmation of an existing covenant. "He shall confirm" or He shall establish the truth or correctness of something PREVIOUSLY believed. If you say otherwise then your changing the bible.

confirm - establish the truth or correctness of (something previously believed, suspected, or feared to be the case).

Show me in the bible where the Anitchrist made a covenant somewhere in the past and then later in the last days he is going to CONFIRM that covenant.... it doesn't exist.
I'm not "off the bat", as you say, which I don't know where in the world that expression comes from anyway.

Dan.9:27 is about the "league" the "vile person" of Dan.11 makes with a "small people". It will involve strengthening the old covenant among the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem for they still reject Jesus as The Messiah. And I covered that point when I went through the Dan.11 section of verses above, which you obviously have not yet read.

Dan.11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

That "vile person" rises up, and takes over the kingdom peacefully using flatteries. He makes a "league" with a "small people" in Jerusalem, showing certain leaders in Jerusalem will be his allies working with him.

Dan.11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

That is the first hint that the "league" the "vile person" made with a "small people" in Jerusalem involved confirming the old covenant with them. And now at this verse the vile person's heart is against that old covenant.

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Because the next verses mention his taking away the sacrifices, this above v.30 also shows the "league" of verse 23 he made involved the establishing of the old covenant in Jerusalem again, which explains how sacrifices and the oblation have started up again. Here he has "indignation against the holy covenant", and meets with those in Jerusalem that forsake the holy covenant, to end it, or BREAK it, if you will, and establish an abomination instead:

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
KJV

That "vile person" will use arms to pollute the sanctuary. What sanctuary? The temple that will be built as included with the "league" of v.23, which is how there will be a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem in order to place that idol abomination into. That v.31 is about the "abomination of desolation" event in a temple in Jerusalem that Jesus warned about in Matt.24 and Mark 13.

 
Nov 23, 2013
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I'm not "off the bat", as you say, which I don't know where in the world that expression comes from anyway.

Dan.9:27 is about the "league" the "vile person" of Dan.11 makes with a "small people". It will involve strengthening the old covenant among the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem for they still reject Jesus as The Messiah. And I covered that point when I went through the Dan.11 section of verses above, which you obviously have not yet read.

Dan.11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

That "vile person" rises up, and takes over the kingdom peacefully using flatteries. He makes a "league" with a "small people" in Jerusalem, showing certain leaders in Jerusalem will be his allies working with him.

Dan.11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

That is the first hint that the "league" the "vile person" made with a "small people" in Jerusalem involved confirming the old covenant with them. And now at this verse the vile person's heart is against that old covenant.

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Because the next verses mention his taking away the sacrifices, this above v.30 also shows the "league" of verse 23 he made involved the establishing of the old covenant in Jerusalem again, which explains how sacrifices and the oblation have started up again. Here he has "indignation against the holy covenant", and meets with those in Jerusalem that forsake the holy covenant, to end it, or BREAK it, if you will, and establish an abomination instead:

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
KJV

That "vile person" will use arms to pollute the sanctuary. What sanctuary? The temple that will be built as included with the "league" of v.23, which is how there will be a standing Jewish temple in Jerusalem in order to place that idol abomination into. That v.31 is about the "abomination of desolation" event in a temple in Jerusalem that Jesus warned about in Matt.24 and Mark 13.

When did the vile person make this contract? Remember Daniel 9:27 is not a new covenant, it's confirming an already existing covenant.

Right off the bat is a Southern expression meaning you're wrong right from the get go. :eek:
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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Paul didn't say anything about Jesus making a new covenant during the time he was on earth, read the verse again. I mean really read it and understand what it says.

Galatians 3:17 KJV
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now read it again until you can see that Paul said that Jesus CONFIRMED the covenant God made with Abraham. Daniel 9:27 says exactly the same thing except that Daniel says it looking forward to when Jesus wil come to confirm the covenant.

Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
You're actually the one misunderstanding that Gal.3:17 verse. It's not about the old covenant at all!

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.


7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Paul was contrasting the law which is allied to the old covenant vs. Faith which is allied to the New Covenant. The Promise God first gave to Abraham did NOT involve the law nor the old covenant.

What don't you understand about that Promise by Faith given Abraham 430 years PRIOR TO THE LAW AND OLD COVENANT?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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When did the vile person make this contract? Remember Daniel 9:27 is not a new covenant, it's confirming an already existing covenant.

Right off the bat is a Southern expression meaning you're wrong right from the get go. :eek:
The "vile person" is the coming false one in the near future time of great tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. Antiochus came close to fulfilling it, but Jesus gave the "abomination of desolation" warning from Daniel later, after Antiochus Epiphenes had long been dead. How hard is that to understand?

The "league" the "vile person" of Dan.11 will... make, involves strengthening the old covenant among the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, which is when they will build another temple in our near future, and start old covenant worship again, a goal they have had ever since Israel became a nation again in 1948 by U.N. Charter vote, (and even before actually since the 2nd temple was destroyed and they haven't been able to fulfill the full requirements of the old covenant worship).
 
A

AboundingGrace

Guest
If Anyone can show me Scriptures which proves something in this picture is not correct, i would like to see it, please.
Please keep personal opinions, personal interpretations, personal thoughts, personal beliefs, out of it. Please just show me Scriptures which proves something in the picture below is not accurate.

View attachment 141823

It is not for me to show scripture concerning your chart, but rather for you to

Show scripture to support your chart:

*) that the first 5 seals are opened before the 7yr tribulation.

*) that the 144,000 Jewish tribes are sealed before the 7yr tribulation.

*) that the great falling away happens during (the first 3 1/2 years) a time of peace.

*) that (prophetic future) the mark of the beast is optional, yet (past history and present) from the 1930's the social security card (to be employed-to buy or sell) is not optional.

*) that in the Millennium the saints reign over the 144,000.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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When did the vile person make this contract? Remember Daniel 9:27 is not a new covenant, it's confirming an already existing covenant.

Right off the bat is a Southern expression meaning you're wrong right from the get go. :eek:
Hi KJV1611,

In Dan.9:24, the angel told Daniel that seventy 'sevens' that is, seventy seven year periods have been decreed upon Israel and their holy city Jerusalem.

Seven 'sevens' = to restore and build Jerusalem (Dan.9:25)

At the end of Sixty-two 'sevens' = Anointed One cut off, which is Christ crucified (Dan.9:26)

Total = Sixty-nine 'sevens'

After the Anointed One was cut off, which was Christ crucified, God put a hold on that last seven year period and began to build the church, which is still in progress. Once the full number of the church has been completed, then Christ will appear and the resurrection and catching away of the church will take place. After that event happens, then God will take up where he left off with Israel regarding the fulfillment of the seventy 'sevens' beginning with that ruler, the antichrist, making his covenant for one 'seven' which is that last seven year period. This last seven years is what is still to come. It is during this time that God will finish the decree which was made regarding Israel. And according to Dan.2:31-45, this same seven years will be when God will dismantle all of human governments in preparation for the Lord's thousand year reign, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will be in fulfillment of "the day of the Lord."

I hope this makes this event a little clearer