Revelation's 42 Months and 1260 Days

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Therapon

Guest
[QUOTE=AgeofKnowledge;952270]The truth is that you're no Micah and we aren't false prophets. Micah was orthodox and never believe in nor advocated a heretical dual covenant theology. I'd discuss this further with you but I have somewhere to be. Bye.[/QUOTE]

Running off, are we? I thought you guys would be all over me for Micaiah, and you didn’t disappoint, however you misread the intent. You really don't get it, do you? The point was this: When has the crowd ever gotten it right? "Group-think" has always led the church to believe in false doctrines.

To prove what I'm talking about, go back to the original post and disprove the day-years. You can't, but don't feel bad about that; nobody else has been able to in 35 years and some real heavyweights have tried. And you're wrong if you think they are just a mathematical anomaly and no big deal.

Those day-years, fulfilled in the Dome of the Rock, 688 A.D., in new Israel, 1948 A.D., and in Jerusalem, 1967 A.D., plus the time-times and 1/2, fulfilled in 1948 and 1967, are the death knell of the seven-year trib, a coming Antichrist and a rebuilt temple and many other myths that some hug so desperately to their bosoms. <grin>

 
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First of all, true Christians get their doctrine from the Bible not from Wikipedia.

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For those who have a Trinity of Father, Son and the Bible, they are forced to go to Wikki, and red hugely of scholars and theologians to learn, who else is there to show them truth?
 
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Jan 11, 2013
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Whoa , Mark where are going with this.
It seems to me earl that many on websites like these have read hugely of scholars and theologians, and often paste huge amounts of their work on threads. Yet, they are the people, from what I have seen who seem to put the least emphasis on the Holy Spirit, He is hardly ever mentioned
 
Feb 17, 2013
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It seems to me earl that many on websites like these have read hugely of scholars and theologians, and often paste huge amounts of their work on threads. Yet, they are the people, from what I have seen who seem to put the least emphasis on the Holy Spirit, He is hardly ever mentioned
Amen to that brother. I was just looking at past post on this thread and seen many post of Hollywood. There is no Spirit in that other that the one we don'y want.
 
Feb 17, 2013
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Therapon, What are talking about, the tribulation, the rapture, or the ressurrection. I must admit I have not followed this thread much and do not ask you to repeat all that you have said. but, in a nut shell can you expound. sorry
 
Feb 17, 2013
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I mean I've read about the 70 weeks given in Daniel and how they will be shortened. But what exactly are you getting at. You don't have to explain as to one who doesn't know. Just plainly say what you are saying. If that makes sense.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Back. I see you asked when has the crowd ever got it right? Obviously, when God/Jesus/Holy Spirit was leading His flock would be the correct answer of which there are numerous examples in both old and new testament scripture.

If only the Harold Campings and other lone wolf false prophets had heeded the voice of the shepherd and joined the flock rather than departing from it to construct their own ideas.

And obviously people hold their beliefs close to "their bosom" as you call it. You do too.

Now I don't accept the eschatological model you've constructed at this time but certainly don't begrudge you it either. The problem is with heresy and dual covenant theology IS heresy.

Dual covenant theology asserts that God's covenant with the Jews is different than the one He gave the Gentiles and makes it unnecessary for them to receive Jesus as their Messiah to be saved.

Zone is right that this is unscriptural blatant heresy. IF (and that's an IF) you teach dual covenant theology, then you are teaching heresy.

Running off, are we? I thought you guys would be all over me for Micaiah, and you didn’t disappoint, however you misread the intent. You really don't get it, do you? The point was this: When has the crowd ever gotten it right? "Group-think" has always led the church to believe in false doctrines.

To prove what I'm talking about, go back to the original post and disprove the day-years. You can't, but don't feel bad about that; nobody else has been able to in 35 years and some real heavyweights have tried. And you're wrong if you think they are just a mathematical anomaly and no big deal.

Those day-years, fulfilled in the Dome of the Rock, 688 A.D., in new Israel, 1948 A.D., and in Jerusalem, 1967 A.D., plus the time-times and 1/2, fulfilled in 1948 and 1967, are the death knell of the seven-year trib, a coming Antichrist and a rebuilt temple and many other myths that some hug so desperately to their bosoms. <grin>

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Running off, are we? I thought you guys would be all over me for Micaiah, and you didn’t disappoint, however you misread the intent. You really don't get it, do you? The point was this: When has the crowd ever gotten it right? "Group-think" has always led the church to believe in false doctrines.
Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ

1I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?a 10He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherdsb and teachers,c 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,d to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

2 Peter 2
False Prophets and Teachers

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Matthew 7:15
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

1 Corinthians 11:19
No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

2 Corinthians 11:13
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Jude 1:4
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord




The OP's brand of Dual Covenant heresy says unbelieving Jews today can openly deny and despise Jesus Christ Our only Sovereign and Lord, while 'waiting for, looking to' some other mosiach they think they might see in the Tanakh.

the OPs brand of Dual Covenant heresy says God has mercifully blinded Faithful "Old Testament Wineskins" from the True Identity of Jesus Christ of Nazareth of whom Moses and the prophets wrote, Christ our only Sovereign and Lord, since if they knew Him by Name they would explode and perish.

So, while simultaneously reviling and rejecting The Very Real Person Jesus of Nazareth, The King of Israel, the Son of God, the Kinsman Redeemer of Israel, the Only Sacrifice for sins, the Only Way of salvation, the Only Mediator between man and God, the Only Name by which men may be saved - the JEWS ARE STILL SAVED.

Talmudic or secular Israelis who are bombing and practicing all manner of depravity and sin and rebellion (like all unbelievers) ARE SAVED ANYWAY. they have a licence to commit any abomination yet ARE SAVED because they hold some hope of some other christ, some other gospel.

the unbelieving jews are just unbelievers...like all unbelievers, jew or gentile. they believe falsely that the Messiah wasn't Jesus, that some other is to come. this is understood, and they need the Gospel of Jesus of Nazareth. on the other hand, when we have people WHO CLAIM they know the True Christ, and CLAIM they know the Bible, and CLAIM they know the Gospel, yet devise and promote this 'other christ, this other gospel' - it is THESE Jude spoke of.

not unbelieving jews who just do and believe what what their rabbis tell them to.

yet the OP has a special provision for jews who reject Christ, something he claims God is only revealing to THIS generation - that God "found a way to saved His people (unbeliving jews)" without them needing to believe in the very Messiah God sent the Israelites of old. He blinded them and called them Old Wine Skins and made them One of Two Witnesses.

the OP has made TWO OLIVE TREES, not One....One Tree is beloved and preserved while REJECTING JESUS OF NAZARETH.

while the Other Tree is gentiles (and some jews? no way around THIS fact) - the Other Witness.

and people put up with this DAMNABLE HERESY readily enough. openly claiming it is OKAY to deny and reject Jesus of Nazareth!

why? because they have to band together to hold their own heresies tightly in their bosoms.
i.e: Arianism.....any post in a storm.

"tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes."

what more deceitful scheme could there be than blatantly corrupt the very 70 weeks God was Glorified in and by as He sent His Only Son to die to redeem ISRAEL!!!!

To prove what I'm talking about, go back to the original post and disprove the day-years. You can't, but don't feel bad about that; nobody else has been able to in 35 years and some real heavyweights have tried. And you're wrong if you think they are just a mathematical anomaly and no big deal.
what dis-prove? "the day-years"

you apply that formula to EVERYTHING (you deal with)...you have to!

but Jesus of Nazareth laid in the grave for 3 days...was that 3 YEARS ELLIS?

Those day-years, fulfilled in the Dome of the Rock, 688 A.D., in new Israel, 1948 A.D., and in Jerusalem, 1967 A.D., plus the time-times and 1/2, fulfilled in 1948 and 1967, are the death knell of the seven-year trib, a coming Antichrist and a rebuilt temple and many other myths that some hug so desperately to their bosoms. <grin>
this false gospel; false teaching; and demonic soteriology which DENIES the VERY LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO BOUGHT SALVATION FOR ISRAEL is the death knell for those who teach it, and for those who believe it.

YOU CAN HAVE IT.
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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according to Therapon's false gospel, this man is SAVED, simply because he says he believes in A messiah. it doesn't matter which one...he says he believes in A messiah...that means he is an "Old Testament Wineskin", preserved as a WITNESS of God - SAVED:


The Messiah's Message to the World

By asking the Jews for spiritual guidance and turning back to "Old Testament" Law, a Child of Noah also accomplishes the most important task of all: He helps bring the Messiah to redeem the entire world.

The Messiah is a Jewish king who will gather all the Jewish people to Israel, destroy all evil, rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, and bring true freedom to the world by returning everyone to the Law. He will institute G-d's eternal kingdom here on earth.

The Messiah will teach the Word of G-d to all nations, causing Christianity and all other religions to disappear. The Bible says that everyone will become a Hasidic Gentile, thirsting for the ancient Truth:

O L-rd, my strength and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of distress, gentiles will come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'We have inherited only lies from our fathers, vanity and things which are not useful. Can a man make gods for himself, and they are not gods?'

Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this time I will let them know My hand and My strength, and they will know that My Name is Hashem (8).

In our generation, the spiritual leader of the Jewish people—and therefore of the whole world—is Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson (known as the Lubavitcher Rebbe"), in New York. He is a righteous prophet who has never sinned, nor even been tempted, in his entire life; indeed, he has brought hundreds of thousands of Jews and gentiles back to the Law. Moreover, he is a direct descendant of King David.

The Rebbe has revealed that the Messiah will finally arrive now, in our generation, amidst great miracles. He has also announced that every Jew, and every gentile, is a representative of G-d to help bring the Messiah immediately.

Who is the Son of G-d? < click


this "gospel"...this belief is OKAY WITH GOD, who says, according to Therapon, this author, this Old Testament Wineskin is preserved, and SAVED anyways...."God found a way to save him"....by blinding him to the True Identity of JESUS OF NAZARETH whom he hates!:

G-d's Firstborn Son

So how has G-d brought His message of truth to the world? According to the Bible, G-d declares that He does have a special son whose mission is to bring His blessings and His salvation to the entire world.

Who is this son? Many religious leaders have offered their opinions on the identity of His son, but really we should find out G-d's "opinion" on this matter.

In the book of Exodus, G-d openly proclaims His son to the world: "Thus says the L-rd: My firstborn son is Israel" (4).

"Israel" is the Jewish people—all of them. The Jews were chosen by G-d to be His special "son," to be, in the words of the Bible, "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" for the whole world (5).

All people are G-d's children, of course, but the Jews are like a "firstborn son" who brings G-d's Word to his younger brothers. Every person who learns from the Jews, and helps them fulfill their special role, becomes a part of G-d's kingdom.

Unfortunately, many times people have not listened to the Jews. For many centuries, the Christian church killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Jews—men, women, and children -- to prevent their holy message from reaching the rest of the world. Today, church leaders still try to silence the Jewish message by sending missionaries to convert Jews to Christianity!"

Who is the Son of G-d? < click


anyone who has monitored the OP's message, can see easily he IS FORCED to agree with this:

"For many centuries, the Christian church killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Jews—men, women, and children -- to prevent their holy message from reaching the rest of the world. Today, church leaders still try to silence the Jewish message by sending missionaries to convert Jews to Christianity!"


and the obvious logic to the OP's thesis is.....DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES try to convert jews to Christ, since God Himself has preserved them in their blindness, and if you pour THE NEW WINE of JESUS OF NAZARETH THEIR PROPITIATION into them, YOU will be responsible for causing them to PERISH!
 
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psychomom

Guest
seems worth repeating...

Acts 4

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health. [SUP]
11 [/SUP]He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
 
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stek

Guest
I have only shown here and in various other threads, a smattering of the biblical evidence showing that a devout Jew of our own time could be saved without recognizing Yeshua as his Messiah.
1. If false, then I'm a false teacher. I'll repent and with head hanging, fade into the sunset never to be seen again.

2. If provably true, however, then no matter how painful, we have to get our doctrines in line with observable reality or we are believing in false doctrine.

So John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you really know me, you will know[SUP][b][/SUP] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
is meaningless?
 
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doulos

Guest
Therapon, are you saying that you know the hour or the day.
No that is not what he is saying. He does say that we are in the season and that some of those who saw the events of Israel becoming a nation (1948) and the Jews taking Jerusalem (1967) will still be alive when Christ returns.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1. If false, then I'm a false teacher. I'll repent and with head hanging, fade into the sunset never to be seen again.

2. If provably true, however, then no matter how painful, we have to get our doctrines in line with observable reality or we are believing in false doctrine.

So John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you really know me, you will know[SUP][b][/SUP] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
is meaningless?
If salvation is ONLY recieved by faith in the PAST work of Christ. then how can anyone be saved who does not believe he died for them in the PAST?

there is no future suffering servant coming for Isreal or anyone else. he already came. the ones who reject the one who came, reject salvation..
 
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doulos

Guest
1. If false, then I'm a false teacher. I'll repent and with head hanging, fade into the sunset never to be seen again.

2. If provably true, however, then no matter how painful, we have to get our doctrines in line with observable reality or we are believing in false doctrine.

So John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you really know me, you will know[SUP][b][/SUP] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
is meaningless?
No it is not meaningless. Didn't all the Old Testament saints come to know Christ? Weren't they born again?
1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Is the Old Covenant an everlsating covenant? How can it be an everlasting covenant if there are not some Jews still under that covenant?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression
How can a Jew that has been sovereignly blinded to Christ's advent and the gospel until the fulness of the gentiles comes in be in transgression, in light of Romans4:15? What is the purpose of provoking them to jealousy if they are doomed? Could the sovereignly blinded Jew that has been provoked to jealousy return to the only Scriptures they are allowed to see (Old Covenant) and be born again just as Moses and Abraham were? Wouldn't that allow God to be true to His word that the Old Covenant was an everlasting covenant? If not then how could we trust God? Do you believe the Old covenant was an everlasting covenant? How can it be everlasting if God has not kept a remnant under it?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No it is not meaningless. Didn't all the Old Testament saints come to know Christ? Weren't they born again?
1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Is the Old Covenant an everlsating covenant? How can it be an everlasting covenant if there are not some Jews still under that covenant?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression
How can a Jew that has been sovereignly blinded to Christ's advent and the gospel until the fulness of the gentiles comes in be in transgression, in light of Romans4:15? What is the purpose of provoking them to jealousy if they are doomed? Could the sovereignly blinded Jew that has been provoked to jealousy return to the only Scriptures they are allowed to see (Old Covenant) and be born again just as Moses and Abraham were? Wouldn't that allow God to be true to His word that the Old Covenant was an everlasting covenant? If not then how could we trust God? Do you believe the Old covenant was an everlasting covenant? How can it be everlasting if God has not kept a remnant under it?
No, this would not be true.. One who rejected God is not saved, under the old or the new.
 
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doulos

Guest
No, this would not be true.. One who rejected God is not saved, under the old or the new.
Just because some of the Jews have been sovereignly blinded to the first advent of Christ and the gospel does not eliminate the possibility that they can come to know Christ from the only Scriptures they are allowed to see. If the Old Testament Scriptures were good enough to allow Abraham and Moses to be born again there is no reason those who are not in transgression because of Rom4:15 can't also come to know Christ and be born again also. Do you believe God lied and that the Old Covenant was not really an everlasting covenant? If not then how could it be an everlasting covenant if there is not a remnant held under it? Wouldn't this also explain how a Jew can be an enemy of the gospel yet still be elect?

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Just because some of the Jews have been sovereignly blinded to the first advent of Christ and the gospel does not eliminate the possibility that they can come to know Christ from the only Scriptures they are allowed to see. If the Old Testament Scriptures were good enough to allow Abraham and Moses to be born again there is no reason those who are not in transgression because of Rom4:15 can't also come to know Christ and be born again also. Do you believe God lied and that the Old Covenant was not really an everlasting covenant? If not then how could it be an everlasting covenant if there is not a remnant held under it? Wouldn't this also explain how a Jew can be an enemy of the gospel yet still be elect?

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
1. Abraham was saved because he had faith in God.
2. No one is saved different in any age, everyone has always been saved by faith.
3. Anyone who relied on the law, or on pagan Gods to saved them, and not on faith is not saved, no matter what.
4. The jew is my enemy because of th egospel because they lead people to hell by their gospel. and themselves also. They are beloved because of the promise (nation) this is not speaking of individuals..

No one has ever been saved apart from faith in God.. And no one has ever been saved by the works of the law. Hebrews is VERY CLEAR ON THIS. why would I want to let a jew who thinks he is saved by law, who has denied Jesus as the messiah and his payment for sin, to think it is ok. God will save you anyway? I would be in serious error, and allowing a guy to send himself to eternal hellfire.