Romans 10:13

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brightfame52

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You guys are talking about a subject called ordo salutis, the order of salvation. It's been debated for about 2,000 years now. I don't think that you two are going to figure it out so y'all might as well shake hands and keep studying
Its nothing to figure out, and there is always going to be opposition to the Truth. A lost person is just that lost, dead, cant do a thing spiritually.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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Its nothing to figure out, and there is always going to be opposition to the Truth. A lost person is just that lost, dead, cant do a thing spiritually.
While that is true, the working of salvation in a person is a mysterious work of the Holy Spirit. And laying it out in step by step events is not possible.
So to let you know that i do not believe in decisionism, niether do i believe Calvin. The Bible says a lot of things on the matter and it clearly says salvation is a work of God, and that a man damned is by his own will.
 

brightfame52

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While that is true, the working of salvation in a person is a mysterious work of the Holy Spirit. And laying it out in step by step events is not possible.
So to let you know that i do not believe in decisionism, niether do i believe Calvin. The Bible says a lot of things on the matter and it clearly says salvation is a work of God, and that a man damned is by his own will.
You can spin it anyway you want, a lost person, a dead person cant do anything spiritually.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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You can spin it anyway you want, a lost person, a dead person cant do anything spiritually.
Did you read what I wrote, or did you impose upon what i your interpretation and feelings.

the working of salvation in a person is a mysterious work of the Holy Spirit
i do not believe in decisionism,
See we are now coming back to the moral issue of stupidity.
Because i also said that i reject the assumptions of Calvin you automatically imposed decisionism upon my words. Neglecting what i had written in its full context. Please dont do that its unbecoming of a honest person.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Did you read what I wrote, or did you impose upon what i your interpretation and feelings.





See we are now coming back to the moral issue of stupidity.
Because i also said that i reject the assumptions of Calvin you automatically imposed decisionism upon my words. Neglecting what i had written in its full context. Please dont do that its unbecoming of a honest person.
It doesnt matter what you wrote friend, dead folk, spiritually dead, can do nothing of spiritual worth and value until they are revived, quickened from the dead. Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
 
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Locoponydirtman

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It doesnt matter what you wrote friend, dead folk, spiritually dead, can do nothing of spiritual worth and value until they are revived, quickened from the dead. Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
I never said they did. I never said anything close. I never implied, insinuated, or otherwise suggest anything of the sort.
 

Inquisitor

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I cant help it you dont understand the scripture.
It would be more accurate to say.

I can't help it, if you do not understand my interpretation of the scripture.

Anyone who claims, that the scripture teaches that someone is saved before believing in Jesus Christ. Is seriously mistaken, I cannot understand why you can't see through this interpretation. It's obvious that Calvin has cooked the scripture.
 

Inquisitor

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Yes I posted it. If a person isn't already saved, they can never call upon the Name of the Lord, because they are dead to God and at enmity against Him.

What you are telling me is that you are a stranger to the Truth about these matters friend.
I am no stranger to the method of interpretation that you are applying to the scripture.

Anyone who believes that Romans 9, is discussing sovereign election, does not understand Romans 9,10, or 11.
 

Inquisitor

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Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Not hard to understand. Just hard for many people to accept.
Hard for many to accept and impossible for others.

The Lord could not make the good news any simpler to understand.

The fact, that Paul hammers the truth home in chapter ten, the culmination of the previous nine chapters. Somehow escapes even the most intelligent theologians. They cannot see that Paul was building up to chapter ten.

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

Well that can't be true, mailmandan.
 

brightfame52

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It would be more accurate to say.

I can't help it, if you do not understand my interpretation of the scripture.

Anyone who claims, that the scripture teaches that someone is saved before believing in Jesus Christ. Is seriously mistaken, I cannot understand why you can't see through this interpretation. It's obvious that Calvin has cooked the scripture.
Its correct the way I said it.
 

Inquisitor

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No God doesnt need to force anyone. This is about one needs to be saved, regenerated, prior to believing in Christ. Also if you reject calvinism, TULIP Truths, you reject the Gospel and call it calvinism
So Adam had freewill but no one else?

There are 3,4, and 5 point Calvinist, then there are ultra-Calvinists. Which faction in Calvinism are you referring too?

I would say that God forced Jeremiah, I felt sorry for Jeremiah.
 

Inquisitor

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Its correct the way I said it.
Which is one of many different interpretations that swirl throughout the Christian world. Every interpretation will cook the letter to the Romans.

I told you before that Romans 9, 10, 11, is explaining why Israel failed, why Israel was grafted out.

Romans 9,10, 11, has nothing to do with God's sovereign election.

Calvin cooked the books.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Not hard to understand. Just hard for many people to accept.
Amen!
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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You guys are talking about a subject called ordo salutis, the order of salvation. It's been debated for about 2,000 years now. I don't think that you two are going to figure it out so y'all might as well shake hands and keep studying
They seem to be talking about ohno assaultus. It is debated here 2000 times a day. But you are right...it is unlikely to be settled.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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So Adam had freewill but no one else?

There are 3,4, and 5 point Calvinist, then there are ultra-Calvinists. Which faction in Calvinism are you referring too?

I would say that God forced Jeremiah, I felt sorry for Jeremiah.
I don't know what you are talking about.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Which is one of many different interpretations that swirl throughout the Christian world. Every interpretation will cook the letter to the Romans.

I told you before that Romans 9, 10, 11, is explaining why Israel failed, why Israel was grafted out.

Romans 9,10, 11, has nothing to do with God's sovereign election.

Calvin cooked the books.
You don't have a clue.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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You don't have a clue.
Between the Tanakh and Septuagint, there's not only translation errors, but also the influence of the Hellenized Greek Language in the Septuagint. In Calvin's day, he only had access to the Septuagint. Which is why when you compare his interpretation it matches the Septuagint. Funny thing is, God gave the Jews that Same Passage of Scripture originally in Hebrew. And when you compare TULIP to the Hebrew, Calvin clearly had no idea what he was claiming. I think it's funny because YOUR Doctrine is based off the Hellenized Greek Septuagint, not the literal Words of God found in the Tanakh. Your Doctrine don't even match up Biblically to the Torah. one would think Calvin was a lunatic when you compare his notes from the Septuagint and place them side by side to the True Inspired Hebrew Tanakh.
 

Angela53510

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Between the Tanakh and Septuagint, there's not only translation errors, but also the influence of the Hellenized Greek Language in the Septuagint. In Calvin's day, he only had access to the Septuagint. Which is why when you compare his interpretation it matches the Septuagint. Funny thing is, God gave the Jews that Same Passage of Scripture originally in Hebrew. And when you compare TULIP to the Hebrew, Calvin clearly had no idea what he was claiming. I think it's funny because YOUR Doctrine is based off the Hellenized Greek Septuagint, not the literal Words of God found in the Tanakh. Your Doctrine don't even match up Biblically to the Torah. one would think Calvin was a lunatic when you compare his notes from the Septuagint and place them side by side to the True Inspired Hebrew Tanakh.
So then why did Jesus & his disciples quote the LXX 80% of the time? It was obviously perfectly acceptable to them.

Let's leave the Hebrew Roots nonsense out of this discussion. Besides, the way Brightfame is presenting this has nothing to do with Calvin. It's like he made up his own little strange soteriology which has nothing to do with anything any version of the Bible says!
 

Inquisitor

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I don't know what you are talking about.
You don't understand the following lines I wrote.

There are 3,4, and 5 point Calvinist, then there are Hyper Calvinists. Which faction in Calvinism are you referring too?

There are Calvinists that believe Adam had freewill and there are Calvinists, that believe Adam did not have freewill. Adam ate of the fruit because that was God's divine determination (Hyper Calvinist).

If you decide that Adam had freewill and the fall was not a determined event. Then you do not belong in the Hyper Calvinist faction.
The problem then arises, if God's will is sovereign, how could Adam choose to do anything but the will of God. How can Adam have freewill, if no one else has a freewill? If God's will is sovereign, Adam cannot have freewill.

The 3,4,5 points of Calvinism are the subgroups within Calvinism. Some folk reject different letters in TULIP.