Romans 3:25

[Sargilana]

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
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Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

 

[crossnote]

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
​

​

Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

Where can we look that up in HIS Word?

 

[dcontroversal]

"It pleased the Father to bruise Him" which is hard for us to fathom as I love my son and would die for him and in no way shape or form offer his life for anyone much less myself. That is why God writes of His ways being so much higher than our ways and as finite beings bound by space and time in the present situation it is very difficult for us to fully comprehend the Love that God had for us and what they were both willing to endure for the sake of humanity. They being both Jesus and the Heavenly Father. Jesus having tasted death for us has resulted in the best mediator that a human could have between us and The Father God. I.E. All God and ALL MAN both the Son of God and the Son of Man.

 

[reject-tech]

Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

It wasn't to appease His wrath, it was to appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will.

As for the being pleased to bruise Him part, along with similar phrases like "smite the shepherd", it was God's allowance of these things to happen that was necessary for Jesus to become the example that He did. It hurt God to provide this sacrifice, but more than that, "It was worth it" in other words.

 

[Starcrash]

It wasn't to appease His wrath, it was to appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will.

As for the being pleased to bruise Him part, along with similar phrases like "smite the shepherd", it was God's allowance of these things to happen that was necessary for Jesus to become the example that He did. It hurt God to provide this sacrifice, but more than that, "It was worth it" in other words.

It's only necessary according to God's arbitrary rules. Note that death and sacrifice wouldn't be concepts before God invented them... where do you think the rule that Jesus had to die for sin came from? Who do you think came up with it? God, from the Christian viewpoint, had to decide that atonement for sin would require his child's death.

If you're going to argue that argue that Jesus' death was "to appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will", then you ought to cite scripture that backs it up. It's quite easy to see how God's wrath leads to death, but I'm hard-pressed to find scripture that supports the idea that God requires death to "appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will". The gospel of John makes it clear that Jesus was the "sacrificial lamb", comparing him to animals that had to have their blood spilled for sin so that God would forgive.

But if we really were to accept your premise that "it hurt God to provide this sacrifice", one only needs to ask what God could have done instead. After all, if God made heaven and hell then he certainly made the rules by which one goes to either place, otherwise it challenges the idea of His omnipotence (if He's bound to someone else's rules and can't change them). But even inside of God's rules, no blood has to be spilled for atonement. While it's true that lambs and turtledoves were sacrificed, as I stated above, the poor who couldn't afford these animals could offer a tenth of an ephah of fine flour instead. Does it need to be stated that flour doesn't bleed? Sacrificing Jesus didn't make much sense, even if you grant that atonement had to be made for the sins of the world.

 

[p_rehbein]

It's only necessary according to God's arbitrary rules. Note that death and sacrifice wouldn't be concepts before God invented them... where do you think the rule that Jesus had to die for sin came from? Who do you think came up with it? God, from the Christian viewpoint, had to decide that atonement for sin would require his child's death.

If you're going to argue that argue that Jesus' death was "to appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will", then you ought to cite scripture that backs it up. It's quite easy to see how God's wrath leads to death, but I'm hard-pressed to find scripture that supports the idea that God requires death to "appease His yearning for someone to finally do His will". The gospel of John makes it clear that Jesus was the "sacrificial lamb", comparing him to animals that had to have their blood spilled for sin so that God would forgive.

But if we really were to accept your premise that "it hurt God to provide this sacrifice", one only needs to ask what God could have done instead. After all, if God made heaven and hell then he certainly made the rules by which one goes to either place, otherwise it challenges the idea of His omnipotence (if He's bound to someone else's rules and can't change them). But even inside of God's rules, no blood has to be spilled for atonement. While it's true that lambs and turtledoves were sacrificed, as I stated above, the poor who couldn't afford these animals could offer a tenth of an ephah of fine flour instead. Does it need to be stated that flour doesn't bleed? Sacrificing Jesus didn't make much sense, even if you grant that atonement had to be made for the sins of the world.

Well, as you seem to place value on "what makes sense," consider that your presence on a Christian web site doesn't make sense given that you are anti-Christ.

 

[nathan3]

God cares and is loving . And Christ is perfect, He was never angry at Him. The way I would resolved some of the misconceptions about what this all means, is really opening up the word and study.

 

[nathan3]

If any wrath is for, its for wicked people, and Christ prayed for that to pass from people. But God was never angry with Him.

this is just me rambling on about this, you know, dont take anything for facts unless you read it yourself in the Bible.

people are in a low state right now, you dont need anyone to witness to you about people, your hear in the dirt of it all. And there needs to be a resolution to all this. People are not just going to be able, to do wrong, and get away with it. They cant just reject all and the One who is righteous, and expect to be okay .People need help

And we learning, that the only way is by Christ. no other way. When some one wrongs some one, they cant just get away with it. When some one is unwilling to change, they are not going to be around for much longer. Christ is the way to get out of that mess. A way out. There's no greater love then to lay down your life , in the place of someone you care about. Think about it, look at state people, are in now. They need help , because it is life or death. Not of the temporary life here, but the soul.

We cant have these people raising trouble in the eternity; people with no desire to be there. But there is the Lords day keep in mind.


Christ is a way to erase these sins we are piling on ourselves, and make Real Change, Real long lasting hope. So we can through Christ, obtain Eternal life. Theres no other way. The word makes that clear.


It's God's way. And when you realize the facts of the matter. God did not just lay down His sons life, because if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father. He put His own life in the flesh, down for us. Paying that price, with his Righteous perfect blood. Atonement, to take away our sins, when we believe upon Christ and all He accomplished and repent.

If you give time to His word, then you'll maybe see in time that we really have a Father in heaven, that is looking out for us, not trying to hurt, but heal , protect, and get His children in order. But He is not going to force anyone. We need to make that choice ,and ask Him for some serious help.

 

[Elin]

If any wrath is for, its for wicked people, and Christ prayed for that to pass from people. But God was never angry with Him.

this is just me rambling on about this, you know, dont take anything for facts unless you read it yourself in the Bible.

Your rambling misunderstanding of Scripture is too voluminous to address, without re-presenting the whole Bible.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
​

Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

Jesus was the object of God's love.

Jesus denied his own will to do the will of the Father therefore laying down his life for us so that we could be reconciled to God and stand before him in righteousness.

Wherefore as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: . . . .But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. . . . . For if by one man's (Adam's) offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. . . . . For as by one man's (Adam's) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.
Romans 5

Christ death reconciled us back to God, brought about our justification, our sanctification, our righteousness - all about LOVE.

 

[pug32]

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
​

Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

[SUP]John 15:12 [/SUP]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


Not wrath or anger, HIS LOVE.

What other way can God show creation, His Love. God determine that blood was need to cleansing sin for the singular reason to show His Love. God never ask for a human sacrifice, but sent His Son, for to show His love. He never ask for anything of any creation he would not do Himself.

[SUP]John 3:16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[SUP]Heb. 9:7 [/SUP]But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, as you seem to place value on "what makes sense," consider that your presence on a Christian web site doesn't make sense given that you are anti-Christ.

HAHAH thumbs up and touché!

 

[posthuman]

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith.
He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
(Romans 3:23-26)

without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
(Hebrews 9:22)


a·tone·ment

1. making of amends: the making of reparation for a sin or a mistake

if mankind was to be reconciled with God, someone had to die.

do we not believe God is holy, & loves justice? and He also loves mercy. Jesus did not present Himself on the cross to "show us that people kill each other" when they do not forgive. history is a scratched record, repeating this from the time of Cain to today. Jesus came to the cross to pay your spiritual tab.

 

[Mark51]

Adam had sold his future offspring, without their consent, into slavery to sin and death. The price he received for the “sale” was the selfish doing of what he wanted to do, stepping out in rebellion against God. (Romans 7:14) Man’s helplessness in getting free from enslavement to death is expressed in the forty-ninth Psalm, verses six to nine: “Those who are trusting in their means of maintenance, and who keep boasting about the abundance of their riches, not one of them can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him; (and the redemption price of their soul is so precious that it has ceased to time indefinite) that he should still live forever and not see the pit.” The price was too precious, too high, beyond the reach of all mankind. As far as imperfect man’s ability was concerned, relief was so far away that it was “to time indefinite,” actually beyond hope. So, if man was ever to be delivered, God had to act to make provision.-Compare Psalm 79:9.

In order to have dealings with those who were born in sin, though it was through no fault of their own, God had to have some legal basis on which to deal with them. (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12) Otherwise, all men would have to die forever, since God’s law required that sinners be removed from the universe. Only the sacrifice of another man, a perfect one, as a “precious” price, could buy back what Adam had lost.-1　Timothy 2:5, 6.

Accordingly, Jehovah needed someone-one whose sacrifice would be the legal basis-through whom he could deal. Just as a human government could not properly negotiate with criminals, so Jehovah God could not deal directly with sinful people and still maintain the dignity and righteousness of his government.

By establishing this legal basis, Jehovah would be able to demonstrate the rightness of his universal rulership, showing also the extreme badness of sin. At the same time he could show mercy to humans. The apostle Paul expresses it at Romans 3:23-26.

Actually, God deals with the human family through his Son, Jesus Christ, who acts as Jehovah’s representative in the matter. Those obedient to God’s arrangement come to have a legal standing with Him. They are redeemed and reconciled or brought into harmony with God. (Colossians 1:13, 14, 20) They gain a personal relationship and are able to call upon Him as “Father.”-Matthew 6:9.

 

[crossnote]

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
​

​

Was Jesus the object of God's wrath?

I can not believe that God had to kill someone to satisfy his anger.
How can a father hit the child, if he is very angry with another person.

I do not believe that God had to solve the problem of whom to kill. To appease his anger, to restore justice.

God by his death showed that restores justice and revenge - is a sin.

Christ died to show that people kill each other when not forgive. When demand justice.

He didn't just show us a way, He jumped down into this snakepit and rescued us.