Sabbath

[TMS]

You can debate this for hours and i have but i've found that the best thing to do is to share how loving God was in giving us this beautiful blessing called the Sabbath and how much it has been a blessing to me and everyone that delights in it (Including Christ). It can be a burden or a blessing. sometimes God leaves left hooks to hang our doubts on because we refuse to believe. Some people choose to reject the blessing and that's their loss.


Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

 

[gotime]

Agreed, I was going to answer some more objections but then I decided not to bother cause it will just go around in circles. and in the end it is each to their own.

I love this promise and have experienced it:

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

 

[gotime]

there is no mention of the cross in Isaiah 66. Isaiah was talking while the shadow was still in force. After the cross the shadow was no longer necessary.

No, GOD said, 'the sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath'. Nowhere in the New Testament does He require the observance of the Sabbath. What He does declare is that we are not 'under the Law'. Not even James mentions the observance of the Sabbath.

In fact Gentile slaves COULD NOT observe the Sabbath (for Jews the Roman law made provision) . They were forced to work. Time for you to think about the facts.

I have and we disagree, but I respect your right to your view.

blessings.

 

[TMS]

quote 156
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Yes this is talking about the Ten commandments, We are not under the law and have been set free from the law.
But wait Paul is talking to people that are trying to be saved by law keeping, and when you read things in context you also see what was said in the next verse Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Shall we transgress the law because we are not under it, or free from the consequences of it? No we keep the law not because it saves us but because Christ saved us by grace. (Grace overlooks our law breaking).

If you marry someone and they promise to never leave you no matter what, does that give you a licence to be unfaithful?

 

[sparty-g]

Valiant, you are correct: Gen 2:2-3 says "seventh day" and does not specifically call it the "sabbath day." But the Hebrew in v.2 says that God ended His work and then "shabbat-ed," meaning He sabbath-ed. V.3 repeats that He blessed and consecrated it because He "shabbat-ed" on it; i.e., He sabbath-ed on it. The connection cannot be any simpler or more clear: the seventh day is declared the day on which He sabbath-ed.

The next time the seventh day of the week is mentioned in Scripture, it is called the Sabbath day (Ex. 16:23-29). When the fourth commandment is given in Ex. 20:11, God recounts the creation week using the "seventh day" and "sabbath day" interchangeably: For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Here, He refers to the seventh day blessed at creation as the Sabbath day: he blessed the Sabbath day at creation. The two are so intricately linked that the seventh day of the week is simply called "the sabbath day" in common Hebrew, even to this day.

Also, the linking of the two is not dependent on the Mosaic covenant or the Torah-Law that was revealed at Mt. Sinai. It is called the Sabbath day (alt., a Sabbath day of rest) before the covenant at Mt. Sinai (Ex. 16:23-29). It is also referred to as the Sabbath day throughout the NT writings after the cross. The linking of the two occurred at creation, when God sabbath-ed on the seventh day, and they are eternally linked. The seventh day is intrinsically linked with the concept of sabbath-ing because that is what the creator did on the day. This is what makes the day what it is. If not, then week would be six days long and would have simply went right back to the first day after the sixth.

In my opinion, the case you probably will want to argue is whether or not mankind was expected to "remember and keep the Sabbath day holy" before the nation of Israel accepted the Sinai covenant. But on the topic of when the seventh day was blessed, consecrated, and made holy as the Sabbath day, I believe you are on much thinner ground trying to argue this did not happen at creation.

And it's not very difficult to consider why the Hebrews needed to be reminded of the Sabbath day in Ex. 16: 400 years of slavery can do that to a people.

 

[4enlightment]

Romans 4:14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Roman 7: 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. 7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

 

[kohelet]

Here Jesus mentions the Sabbath:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

According to the verse,

who was the Sabbath made for, Just Jews or all of mankind?

gotime,

Why don't we look at your verses in context?

The Pharisees were questioning Jesus, who refers them to the story of David in the time of Abiathar when he ate the bread of the presence in the house of God. The Pharisees would have been aware of the broader context of the discussion of the Sabbath, that it was a token of the covenant with Moses, a sign between God and Israel and a sign that Israel had been set apart by God (Ex. 31:12-17); they would be aware that it was to remind Israel of the Exodus (Deut. 5:12-15; Ezek. 20:10-12); and it was a sign that Jahweh was Israel's God (Ezek. 20:20). Every reason given for the observance of the Sabbath has relevance only to Israel, not to the Gentiles or the Church.

The context was what was lawful on the Sabbath and the law in question was the law of Moses, given to the Jews. For Jesus to specify the Jews in His reply would have been superfluous. Who else would he have been referring to?

 

[michael56]

well it is easy to answer that question, it is because Colossians was referring to ALL sabbaths whether seven day or ceremonial.
But note that in the verse sabbaths is paralleled with new moons. these were regular holy days every new moon. the sabbath was a holy day every sabbath. So clearly the thought of the seven day sabbath was primary.

the sabbath was a shadow of things to come. Read Hebrews 4. Genesis does not mention the sabbath. the seventh day only became connected with the sabbath in God's covenant with Israel.

now you have been enlightened

You've made some great points in my view, but may I say, it does not matter how much you state only the Holy Spirit can turn on the light and actually ''enlighten'(or convict) the individual. But great posts, it was nice to read them

 

[gotime]

gotime,

Why don't we look at your verses in context?

The Pharisees were questioning Jesus, who refers them to the story of David in the time of Abiathar when he ate the bread of the presence in the house of God. The Pharisees would have been aware of the broader context of the discussion of the Sabbath, that it was a token of the covenant with Moses, a sign between God and Israel and a sign that Israel had been set apart by God (Ex. 31:12-17); they would be aware that it was to remind Israel of the Exodus (Deut. 5:12-15; Ezek. 20:10-12); and it was a sign that Jahweh was Israel's God (Ezek. 20:20). Every reason given for the observance of the Sabbath has relevance only to Israel, not to the Gentiles or the Church.

The context was what was lawful on the Sabbath and the law in question was the law of Moses, given to the Jews. For Jesus to specify the Jews in His reply would have been superfluous. Who else would he have been referring to?

Jesus is our exodus from slavery to sin/the Devil.

 

[gotime]

Jesus is our exodus from slavery to sin/the Devil.

As it is written:

1Co_5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

 

[TMS]

Because we are free from the law, can we murder?

 

[gotime]

Because we are free from the law, can we murder?

This is the real crux of the matter to me. We are not under the law yet that does not mean we are free to sin.

 

[TMS]

Quote 166
If i'm trying to earn my way to heaven by my own good deeds, (self righteousness), instead of Christ's righteousness, (righteousness by faith), then someone needs to tell me faith means nothing and the promise is worthless Roms 4:14, i also need to be told we have been released from the law Rom 7:6 andby the works of the law no one will be justified, and i also need to be told Christ died for nothing!, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Gal 2.
Paul was talking to people that were pushing the Sabbath (and other laws) to be saved, The Sabbath wasn't wrong it was the motive behind why they where keeping it. Jesus said Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Tintin]

Oh, brilliant! Another thread on the Sabbath.

In short, Christians have Christ as their Sabbath. He is our place of rest and we are called to live our lives daily in service to Him (we're living sacrifices). We live under Grace, not Law.

 

[TMS]

This is the real crux of the matter to me. We are not under the law yet that does not mean we are free to sin.

True,
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[gotime]

I can't speak for every one but there is a reason The Sabbath is so important.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

There is a warning to not receive a mark and there is a description of those who do not receive it,

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So we know that the mark is the opposite to the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

God has a sign/mark for His people and notice again:

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

The law of God is here referred to the 10 commandments are Gods mark on the hand and the forehead. and also notice the next line like the Exodus 13 account comes the mark of redemption through the blood of the lamb.

So notice the two things listed here that are Gods mark:

Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Bind what?

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

The 10 commandments read chapter 5 and 6 for context. and the second thing:

Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Passover as seen in exodus 13 is also Gods mark.

So the 10 commandments and the blood of the lamb are the mark now notice Revelation again:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Two things again, commandments and faith in the blood of Jesus our Passover.

but one part of the law in particular is also mentioned by itself as a sign:

Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

This is exactly what Hebrews 3 and 4 are saying that the Sabbath sign is still there.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

In Exodus God uses the Sabbath as a test to see if they will keep His law or not:

Exo 16:4 Then said Jehovah unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day's portion every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or not.

This is part of the imagery borrowed by Hebrews.

So while you may disagree it would be selfish and heartless not to try and warn you.

 

[michael56]

True,
1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard Lev19:27

Do you transgress this law or obey it?

 

[TMS]

Gotime
Its great to see that your looking to the Old Testament to help you understand the New Testament. It's all relevant. Some people try to create a different God for the new Testament.

 

[TMS]

Hi Michael56
are you from the Neverlands? What time is it there?

 

[michael56]

Hi Michael56
are you from the Neverlands? What time is it there?

Obviously not time to receive an answer to a question