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you pretend you don't come to the Scriptures with presuppositions absorbed the same way the rest of the West has - via those devils Irving/Darby/Wescott/Hort & Scofield.
you don't know WHAT you believe.
if you did, you'd know THE FANTASY FUTURE MILLENNIUM is a BRANCH on the DISPENSATIONAL TREE.
it is a DISPENSATION.
set aside for national israel to 'get right with God" under some bizarre flesh/spirit combination of Law & Grace (the church - whatever THAT is, since original dispensationalism says jews AREN'T PART OF THE CHURCH....will be somewhere else while israel does things with bulls and goats - YA RIGHT)
but, since you don't believe Scripture is the Ultimate Authority, you'll likely never be bothered to even consider the fact you've been HAD. you think you go to the bible without presuppositions or ideas implanted in your mind.....YOU DO NOT.
but, if you don't care enough to even consider the fact that you could be very very wrong, that's your problem. and if you think it doesn't matter, believe me VW - it does.....PRETRIB RAPTURE and Scofieldism are setting the stage for THE GRAND DECEPTION. if you don't care enough to double triple check your beliefs, that's your choice.
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no....it isn't.
and my calling is to tear this FALSE DOCTRINE down....and i intend to do it. and all it's branches: PRETRIB RAPTURE/ISRAEL NOT IN THE CHURCH/etc etc
ever have a little nagging suspicion you may be wrong? hair stand on end for a minute or two? bit of a guilty conscience? you should listen to it.
if you intend to feed the sheep, you better make sure you're feeding them the right food.
Matthew 25
45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
and my calling is to tear this FALSE DOCTRINE down....and i intend to do it. and all it's branches: PRETRIB RAPTURE/ISRAEL NOT IN THE CHURCH/etc etc
ever have a little nagging suspicion you may be wrong? hair stand on end for a minute or two? bit of a guilty conscience? you should listen to it.
if you intend to feed the sheep, you better make sure you're feeding them the right food.
Matthew 25
45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
I suppose that you are completely free of any pre-suppositions. Yeah. Right.
If the scripture is the ultimate authority you claim, then why do you not believe it? Because you do not want to, it disagrees with what you already believe.
I do not believe that the 1000 years of Christ's rule on this world is for Israel to get right with Him. I don't believe that it is even possible for one to "get right" with God. I believe that this is a vile lie from hell. What happens is God decides to save someone, out of His love for them. No one comes to Jesus but the Father draws them.
The so called grand deception you claim is coming is not having anything to do with Jesus. It has to do with an impostor, who takes the throne and claims to be God. And many will believe. The other deception is one God sends on those who refuse to receive the love of the truth, which comes only by the Holy Spirit. And they are deluded, sent a deluding influence, so that they would believe a lie. And that lie is not the rapture, it is that God is bound by anything at all, including scripture. It is that one must belong to a church to be of the church. It is that faith in the bible equates faith in God. It leads to hell.
I have never read any of those people you mention. not even one. All I have read I have read with my ear to the Spirit. He never lies.
If the scripture is the ultimate authority you claim, then why do you not believe it? Because you do not want to, it disagrees with what you already believe.
I do not believe that the 1000 years of Christ's rule on this world is for Israel to get right with Him. I don't believe that it is even possible for one to "get right" with God. I believe that this is a vile lie from hell. What happens is God decides to save someone, out of His love for them. No one comes to Jesus but the Father draws them.
The so called grand deception you claim is coming is not having anything to do with Jesus. It has to do with an impostor, who takes the throne and claims to be God. And many will believe. The other deception is one God sends on those who refuse to receive the love of the truth, which comes only by the Holy Spirit. And they are deluded, sent a deluding influence, so that they would believe a lie. And that lie is not the rapture, it is that God is bound by anything at all, including scripture. It is that one must belong to a church to be of the church. It is that faith in the bible equates faith in God. It leads to hell.
I have never read any of those people you mention. not even one. All I have read I have read with my ear to the Spirit. He never lies.
no! of course not!
fortunately i NEVER believed prtrib.
and i ALWAYS SAW God's promises to Israel finding their fulfillment in His Church....all the first christians were jews!
and i saw God's Plan unfolding spiritually NOW on earth as people are saved and added to the church.
i saw One Second Advent, with Judgment immediately at that time.
which is why is struggled for so long with the presuppositions that there was any provision for, need for, or biblical proof of a literal 1,000 years reign.
so i decided to leave the millennial teachings alone until i understood The Plan of Redemption, the New Covenant and God's intended purpose that Israel be the first-fruits of His Church, then the gentiles grafted in.
i could see that Jesus had fulfilled Daniel's 70th Week.
but still those proclamations by christians that there simply HAD to be a literal 1,000 years reign on earth with flesh men and men and rations rebelling persisted , so i decided to put all that aside until i was grounded in the rest.
what cinched it for me was when a friend asked: NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH? or RE-NEWED OLD EARTH?
...think about that for a time.
after that i began millennial studies and very quickly saw the folly of dispensationalism at work.
i do believe it.
and i agree with what it says.
what's it for then?
why not just eternity?
huh?
nominal Christians who believe falsley about jesus are in trouble.
you yourself said elsewhere you doubted if people who believed in pretrib rapture were even saved!
I have never read any of those people you mention. not even one. All I have read I have read with my ear to the Spirit. He never lies.[/quote]
1) you're kidding right? people who trust God's Word are hell-bound?
2) you've been indoctrinated by dispensationalsim...those are your presuppositions: if you want that literal 1,000 years after the Second Advent, you'll see it.
fortunately i NEVER believed prtrib.
and i ALWAYS SAW God's promises to Israel finding their fulfillment in His Church....all the first christians were jews!
and i saw God's Plan unfolding spiritually NOW on earth as people are saved and added to the church.
i saw One Second Advent, with Judgment immediately at that time.
which is why is struggled for so long with the presuppositions that there was any provision for, need for, or biblical proof of a literal 1,000 years reign.
so i decided to leave the millennial teachings alone until i understood The Plan of Redemption, the New Covenant and God's intended purpose that Israel be the first-fruits of His Church, then the gentiles grafted in.
i could see that Jesus had fulfilled Daniel's 70th Week.
but still those proclamations by christians that there simply HAD to be a literal 1,000 years reign on earth with flesh men and men and rations rebelling persisted , so i decided to put all that aside until i was grounded in the rest.
what cinched it for me was when a friend asked: NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH? or RE-NEWED OLD EARTH?
...think about that for a time.
after that i began millennial studies and very quickly saw the folly of dispensationalism at work.
i do believe it.
and i agree with what it says.
what's it for then?
why not just eternity?
huh?
nominal Christians who believe falsley about jesus are in trouble.
you yourself said elsewhere you doubted if people who believed in pretrib rapture were even saved!
I have never read any of those people you mention. not even one. All I have read I have read with my ear to the Spirit. He never lies.[/quote]
1) you're kidding right? people who trust God's Word are hell-bound?
2) you've been indoctrinated by dispensationalsim...those are your presuppositions: if you want that literal 1,000 years after the Second Advent, you'll see it.
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i used to volunteer to help addicts and alcoholics reach places of safety until they could accept and deal with their problems.
the hardest ones to deal with were the ones who denied they were addicts. denied they had a problem. denied their problem was their own fault. denied their problem was hurting those around them......as they cracked their second Fifth.
i'm tired of dealing with your ABSURD teachings, and your associations.
This theological concept, which has many forms, is primarily referred to as the “Two Covenant” or “Dual Covenant” theory.
CRI introduced Hagee this way:
the hardest ones to deal with were the ones who denied they were addicts. denied they had a problem. denied their problem was their own fault. denied their problem was hurting those around them......as they cracked their second Fifth.
i'm tired of dealing with your ABSURD teachings, and your associations.
CHRISTIAN ZIONISM AND ETHNIC SALVATION
by G. Richard Fisher
by G. Richard Fisher
“An astonishing and horrible thing has been committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule by their own power; And my people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?” (Jeremiah 5:30-31).
“For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek” (Romans 1:16).
Most people who see and hear the Rev. John C. Hagee are impressed. He is rotund, strident, authoritative (and could well pass for Rush Limbaugh’s older and more serious brother). His delivery alone gives the impression of one who really knows what he is talking about. However, careful evaluation of the teachings of Hagee, pastor at the San Antonio-based Cornerstone Church, reveals false teaching and a defective view of a basic and essential issue regarding salvation and the Gospel. Hagee preaches another way of salvation for the Jew, which is in direct violation of Paul’s warnings in Galatians 1:6-9.
This theological concept, which has many forms, is primarily referred to as the “Two Covenant” or “Dual Covenant” theory.
CRI introduced Hagee this way:
“Well-known to millions of Christians because of his television ministry, Rev. Hagee (the book lists him as Dr., but he does not have an earned doctorate) is the pastor of one of America’s largest Word-Faith churches. He has been granted several awards from Jewish organizations for his outspoken advocacy for the nation of Israel and Jewish rights.”1
There is no denying that Hagee sells books and lots of them. Should we be impressed that he has generated a number of best-sellers? Maybe not, because as Robert Boston reminds us:
“How a book sells is not an indication of its merit. The American public has a seemingly bottomless appetite for nonsense, as evidenced by the countless tomes about astrology, aliens from outer space, quack diets, and UFOs that have regularly graced best-seller lists over the years. Some books that sold millions have later been exposed as hoaxes. A slot on the best-seller list tells you exactly one thing about a book: that a lot of people bought it.”2
The Houston Chronicle article further reported:
And further revealed:
The Houston Chronicle article further reported:
“John Hagee, fundamentalist pastor from San Antonio and friend of Israel, is truly a strange fish. ... The man has a mission. He’s out to attack anti-Semitism. He also believes that Jews can come to God without going through Jesus Christ.”10
The Houston newspaper then quoted Hagee’s own shocking words: “I’m not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith.”
And further revealed:
“In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity, he says.”11
Even more recent are the remarks Hagee made during an interview at the Christian Booksellers Association convention in July 1998. David Becker of the Religion & Politics Digest asked Hagee to comment as to his position that Jews do not need to be converted to Christianity. Hagee responded that:
Even more recent are the remarks Hagee made during an interview at the Christian Booksellers Association convention in July 1998. David Becker of the Religion & Politics Digest asked Hagee to comment as to his position that Jews do not need to be converted to Christianity. Hagee responded that:
“In Romans 10, Romans 11, Paul opens with a question, Has God forsaken Israel? And emphatically he says, ‘No!’ He asks the same question again in 11:11, Has God forsaken Israel? He says, ‘No!’ But the fact is he says that God has a remnant chosen by the election of grace, meaning that there are a group of Jewish people that have a relationship with God because of sovereign election. And he explains sovereign election in Romans 11. Many people understand sovereign election. Many people do not understand sovereign election. ... So he said, I have chosen some of the remnant of Abraham who have, quote, a relationship with God by the election of grace. Some of them have stumbled over Jesus Christ because I have, Romans 11, judicially blinded them to the identity of Jesus Christ. Here’s the Christian dilemma. That if God has judicially blinded the Jews to whom Jesus Christ is, why are Christians berating them for not seeing it?”18
In short, Hagee believes that some Jews are not saved by the cross of Christ but by prior election and their pedigree in Abraham. There is a way of salvation in Christ and an election of grace for the Jew apart from Christ. No matter how you nuance it or define it, this is “Two Covenant” theology. This can be classified technically as a modified “Dual Covenant” idea regardless of what Hagee wants to call it or not call it. Hagee believes that two covenants are in force: A covenant of election for the Jew and a covenant of grace for the Gentile. This is an attack on the very Gospel as presented by Jesus and Paul, as we’ll see. And then what about half Jews or Jewish converts? Where do they stand?
In a very strange twist, the man most responsible for popularizing the “Two Covenant” view (in the 1920s and 1930s) was a Jewish thinker and author named Franz Rosenzweig. Much like Hagee does today, Rosenzweig attempted to create a rationale for not evangelizing Jews while leaving intact the viability, authenticity and acceptability of both Judaism and Christianity. Predating postmodernism but in postmodern fashion, Rosenzweig argued that Jews had their own subjective truth inside Judaism and Christians had their own subjective truth in Christ. Both were right, according to Rosenzweig.
As well, Rosenzweig taught that Jewish blood inherently gave all Jews shelter under the Old Covenant (the New Covenant being only for Gentiles), but John 1:12-13 asserts that only receiving Christ gives salvation and linkage to the family of God and that the salvation given is given to those “who were not born of blood. ... but of God.”
Rosenzweig’s ideas were a master stroke of accommodation, tolerance and ecumenicity but simply are not true to the New Testament. Arguments like Rosenzweig’s, we must remember, appeared at least in germ form in the second century with Trypho and were soundly refuted by Justin Martyr.24 Church history shows that even the first inklings of a double way of salvation were never tolerated by the Church. Early Christians only affirmed what they knew the Bible taught.
Nearly everyone who champions this “Two Covenant” idea since Rosenzweig, knowingly or unknowingly, repeats his arguments. In 1949, Rosenzweig’s “Two Covenant” view was seriously demolished by Jakob Jocz in his book, The Jewish People and Jesus Christ.25
Jocz was astute in pointing out that election under the Old Covenant was national, whereas under the New Covenant in the age of grace election is individual. This is the key to understanding the “Two Covenant” error. Individual Jews and individual Gentiles must accept God’s offer of salvation in Christ.
Hagee grossly misinterprets Romans 11:25-26 (i.e., that all Israel will be saved) to mean, it seems, that most Jews are automatically saved. Historically (and most major commentaries will affirm this) these verses have been seen as a promise for a future national restoration of the nation. The words “will be” indicate future activity. The verse does not say “are saved” but “will be.” This agrees with and is in keeping with the OT Prophets’ visions and messages of a national interruption in the Covenant until the end times. When Jesus spoke of Israel’s House being left desolate (Luke 13:35), He was addressing the period of interruption when Israel would be without a temple, without a sacrifice, without a priesthood and without a Covenant (Hosea 3:4-5).
Hagee has the Jewish people turning to the Messiah in a future day on pages 158-159 of his book, Beginning of the End. Given his views of an automatic salvation for some Jews under a Covenant of election, it is easy to see how he can teach that Jews come to an awareness of the Messiah, rather than an acceptance, since they already have salvation. Hagee’s view renders all evangelistic efforts to Jews as foolish and unnecessary.
Hagee must have missed the Book of Hebrews, which shows that all Israel is to come under the New Covenant (Heb. 8:6-12) because the Old Covenant was obsolete and ready to vanish (Heb. 8:13). A reading of Paul’s letter to the Galatians will quickly silence any ideas that salvation can be obtained by anyone on the basis of links to Law or Abraham. The first eleven chapters of Romans also establishes the same truth.
The Other Gospel of John Hagee
...............................
i find these ideas despicable and hurtful to the jews, and preparing christians who teach this for serious discussions with Jesus on Judgment Day.
anyways Red.....i can't help you see what i see, i'm not going to your theories, so i'd rather not talk you any more, ok?
anyways....why would you even converse with one like me who has lied to the world AND the Holy Spirit?
thanks
zone.
As well, Rosenzweig taught that Jewish blood inherently gave all Jews shelter under the Old Covenant (the New Covenant being only for Gentiles), but John 1:12-13 asserts that only receiving Christ gives salvation and linkage to the family of God and that the salvation given is given to those “who were not born of blood. ... but of God.”
Rosenzweig’s ideas were a master stroke of accommodation, tolerance and ecumenicity but simply are not true to the New Testament. Arguments like Rosenzweig’s, we must remember, appeared at least in germ form in the second century with Trypho and were soundly refuted by Justin Martyr.24 Church history shows that even the first inklings of a double way of salvation were never tolerated by the Church. Early Christians only affirmed what they knew the Bible taught.
Nearly everyone who champions this “Two Covenant” idea since Rosenzweig, knowingly or unknowingly, repeats his arguments. In 1949, Rosenzweig’s “Two Covenant” view was seriously demolished by Jakob Jocz in his book, The Jewish People and Jesus Christ.25
Jocz was astute in pointing out that election under the Old Covenant was national, whereas under the New Covenant in the age of grace election is individual. This is the key to understanding the “Two Covenant” error. Individual Jews and individual Gentiles must accept God’s offer of salvation in Christ.
Hagee grossly misinterprets Romans 11:25-26 (i.e., that all Israel will be saved) to mean, it seems, that most Jews are automatically saved. Historically (and most major commentaries will affirm this) these verses have been seen as a promise for a future national restoration of the nation. The words “will be” indicate future activity. The verse does not say “are saved” but “will be.” This agrees with and is in keeping with the OT Prophets’ visions and messages of a national interruption in the Covenant until the end times. When Jesus spoke of Israel’s House being left desolate (Luke 13:35), He was addressing the period of interruption when Israel would be without a temple, without a sacrifice, without a priesthood and without a Covenant (Hosea 3:4-5).
Hagee has the Jewish people turning to the Messiah in a future day on pages 158-159 of his book, Beginning of the End. Given his views of an automatic salvation for some Jews under a Covenant of election, it is easy to see how he can teach that Jews come to an awareness of the Messiah, rather than an acceptance, since they already have salvation. Hagee’s view renders all evangelistic efforts to Jews as foolish and unnecessary.
Hagee must have missed the Book of Hebrews, which shows that all Israel is to come under the New Covenant (Heb. 8:6-12) because the Old Covenant was obsolete and ready to vanish (Heb. 8:13). A reading of Paul’s letter to the Galatians will quickly silence any ideas that salvation can be obtained by anyone on the basis of links to Law or Abraham. The first eleven chapters of Romans also establishes the same truth.
The Other Gospel of John Hagee
...............................
i find these ideas despicable and hurtful to the jews, and preparing christians who teach this for serious discussions with Jesus on Judgment Day.
anyways Red.....i can't help you see what i see, i'm not going to your theories, so i'd rather not talk you any more, ok?
anyways....why would you even converse with one like me who has lied to the world AND the Holy Spirit?
thanks
zone.
[/QUOTE]
Indoctrination is a horrible word, and is actually what happened in Nazi Germany. The entire population was indoctrinated to believe that Jews were a subhuman race and were responsible for all the ills of the nation Germany. I am not indoctrinated.
If you believe that faith in the bible will save you, then you are lost. If you believe that Jesus will save you, then you will be saved. If you live in Jesus then you are already saved. If you are alive in His resurrection, then you will never die.
Ask God why the 1000 years. He is doing it, and He is the One who inspired John to write about it. Do you still deny that there is a thousand years between the first resurrection and the second resurrection? They you deny scripture.
So where is your faith?
If my Lord wants to sit on a throne in Jerusalem for 1000 years, requiring that the nations bring sacrifices to Him, and all of the other things that are prophesied about, I am not going to tell Him or anyone else that this is a great lie, a deception sent from hell to mislead the elect. It is testified to and of by scripture.
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
And for the record, I did not say that people who believe in the pretrib rapture are not saved. I said that many profess salvation in order to feel that they can escape the tribulation by just making a profession, and I know that the men who teach this have a large bill to pay. Salvation is drawing near to God, period.
Indoctrination is a horrible word, and is actually what happened in Nazi Germany. The entire population was indoctrinated to believe that Jews were a subhuman race and were responsible for all the ills of the nation Germany. I am not indoctrinated.
If you believe that faith in the bible will save you, then you are lost. If you believe that Jesus will save you, then you will be saved. If you live in Jesus then you are already saved. If you are alive in His resurrection, then you will never die.
Ask God why the 1000 years. He is doing it, and He is the One who inspired John to write about it. Do you still deny that there is a thousand years between the first resurrection and the second resurrection? They you deny scripture.
So where is your faith?
If my Lord wants to sit on a throne in Jerusalem for 1000 years, requiring that the nations bring sacrifices to Him, and all of the other things that are prophesied about, I am not going to tell Him or anyone else that this is a great lie, a deception sent from hell to mislead the elect. It is testified to and of by scripture.
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
And for the record, I did not say that people who believe in the pretrib rapture are not saved. I said that many profess salvation in order to feel that they can escape the tribulation by just making a profession, and I know that the men who teach this have a large bill to pay. Salvation is drawing near to God, period.
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If you believe that faith in the bible will save you, then you are lost. If you believe that Jesus will save you, then you will be saved. If you live in Jesus then you are already saved. If you are alive in His resurrection, then you will never die.
get real VW. i know how i was justified.
anyway.....i thought you said people who believe in pretrib rapture aren't saved?
Ask God why the 1000 years. He is doing it, and He is the One who inspired John to write about it. Do you still deny that there is a thousand years between the first resurrection and the second resurrection? They you deny scripture.
no. i do not deny that.
the first resurrection began at The First Advent.
the second resurrection takes place at the Second Advent.
none of that has anything to do with a literal 1,000 years AFTER the Second Advent.
CARNAL THINKING.
putting aside the ONLY place a thousand years is mentioned regarding the kingdom (Rev 20),
please look at these verses and tell me if Jesus (speaking about This world and ETERNITY) says there is a 1,000 year GAP between this age (world), and the age (world) to come:
Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Mark 10:28-30
Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
and Paul:
1 Timothy 4:8
for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
and please tell me here in Jesus' description of the end of the world is He says there's a 1,000 years between His Coming and the gathering and burning of the tares:
Matthew 13:38-43
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.[the eternal state in the everlasting Kingdom - the world to come]
notice also Jesus ALSO says the kingdom is in place NOW:
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
I DON'T AND NEVER HAVE INVALIDATED THE REIGN OF CHRIST (figuratively named a thousand years)! He's reigning NOW! its others who say He isn't reigning now! others say Jesus' Kingdom didn't begin at The First Advent!
And for the record, I did not say that people who believe in the pretrib rapture are not saved. I said that many profess salvation in order to feel that they can escape the tribulation by just making a profession, and I know that the men who teach this have a large bill to pay. Salvation is drawing near to God, period.
ya, actually, you did.
if its not such a big deal to teach dispensationalism, why will men have to answer for it?
what's the problem?
get real VW. i know how i was justified.
anyway.....i thought you said people who believe in pretrib rapture aren't saved?
Ask God why the 1000 years. He is doing it, and He is the One who inspired John to write about it. Do you still deny that there is a thousand years between the first resurrection and the second resurrection? They you deny scripture.
no. i do not deny that.
the first resurrection began at The First Advent.
the second resurrection takes place at the Second Advent.
none of that has anything to do with a literal 1,000 years AFTER the Second Advent.
CARNAL THINKING.
putting aside the ONLY place a thousand years is mentioned regarding the kingdom (Rev 20),
please look at these verses and tell me if Jesus (speaking about This world and ETERNITY) says there is a 1,000 year GAP between this age (world), and the age (world) to come:
Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
Mark 10:28-30
Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
and Paul:
1 Timothy 4:8
for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
and please tell me here in Jesus' description of the end of the world is He says there's a 1,000 years between His Coming and the gathering and burning of the tares:
Matthew 13:38-43
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.[the eternal state in the everlasting Kingdom - the world to come]
notice also Jesus ALSO says the kingdom is in place NOW:
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
I DON'T AND NEVER HAVE INVALIDATED THE REIGN OF CHRIST (figuratively named a thousand years)! He's reigning NOW! its others who say He isn't reigning now! others say Jesus' Kingdom didn't begin at The First Advent!
And for the record, I did not say that people who believe in the pretrib rapture are not saved. I said that many profess salvation in order to feel that they can escape the tribulation by just making a profession, and I know that the men who teach this have a large bill to pay. Salvation is drawing near to God, period.
ya, actually, you did.
if its not such a big deal to teach dispensationalism, why will men have to answer for it?
what's the problem?
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The Seven Dispensations
Understanding the seven dispensations is necessary to rightly divide the Word of God, meaning to correctly understand the Bible. Everything written in the Bible is written for us, but everything written is not necessarily written to us. Commandments, promises, blessings and warnings given to Israel in the Dispensation of Law do not apply to the Christian Church today in this Dispensation of Grace. We are not under the law but under grace. Instructions given to Adam and Eve do not apply to us today. The dietary restrictions given by God to Israel do not apply to us today. We must follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul as they apply to Church in this Dispensation of Grace.
1,000 YEAR REIGN FROM OLD JERUSALEM?
The Seven Dispensations
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
by Dr. C. I. Scofield
The Scriptures divide time (by which is meant the entire period from the creation of Adam to the "new heaven and a new earth" of Rev. 21: 1) into seven unequal periods, usually called dispensations (Eph. 3:2), although these periods are also called ages (Eph. 2:7) and days, as in "day of the Lord."
These periods are marked off in Scripture by some change in God's method of dealing with mankind, or a portion of mankind, in respect of the two questions: of sin, and of man's responsibility. Each of the dispensations may be regarded as a new test of the natural man, and each ends in judgment, marking his utter failure in every dispensation. Five of these dispensations, or periods of time, have been fulfilled; we are living in the sixth, probably toward its close, and have before us the seventh, and last: the millennium.
1. Man innocent.
2. Man under conscience.
3. Man in authority over the earth.
4. Man under promise.
5. Man under law.
6. Man under grace.
7. Man under the personal reign of Christ.
These periods are marked off in Scripture by some change in God's method of dealing with mankind, or a portion of mankind, in respect of the two questions: of sin, and of man's responsibility. Each of the dispensations may be regarded as a new test of the natural man, and each ends in judgment, marking his utter failure in every dispensation. Five of these dispensations, or periods of time, have been fulfilled; we are living in the sixth, probably toward its close, and have before us the seventh, and last: the millennium.
1. Man innocent.
"This dispensation extends from the creation of Adam in Genesis 2:7 to the expulsion from Eden. Adam, created innocent and ignorant of good and evil, was placed in the garden of Eden with his wife, Eve, and put under responsibility to abstain from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The dispensation of innocence resulted in the first failure of man, and in its far-reaching effects, the most disastrous. It closed in judgment: "So he drove out the man." See Gen. 1:26; Gen. 2:16,17; Gen. 3:6; Gen. 3:22-24.)"
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
"By the fall, Adam and Eve acquired and transmitted to the race the knowledge of good and evil. This gave conscience a basis for right moral judgment, and hence the race came under this measure of responsibility -- to do good and eschew evil. The result of the dispensation of conscience, from Eden to the flood (while there was no institution of government and of law), was that "all flesh had corrupted his way on the earth," that "the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually," and God closed the second testing of the natural man with judgment: the flood. See Gen. 3:7, 22; Gen. 6:5,11-12; Gen. 7:11-12, 23.)"
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Do good and do not do evil, or love what is good and hate what is evil.
Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.
"Out of the fearful judgment of the flood God saved eight persons, to whom, after the waters were assuaged, He gave the purified earth with ample power to govern it. This, Noah and his descendants were responsible to do. The dispensation of human government resulted, upon the plain of Shinar, in the impious attempt to become independent of God and closed in judgment: the confusion of tongues. (See Gen. 9: 1, 2; Gen. 11: 1-4; Gen. 11:5-8.)"
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Believe God and build an ark.
Genesis 6:16 "You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it [with] lower, second, and third [decks]. 17 "And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which [is] the breath of life; everything that [is] on the earth shall die. 18 "But I will establish My covenant with you; and you shall go into the ark--you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you.
"Out of the dispersed descendants of the builders of Babel, God called one man, Abram, with whom He enters into covenant. Some of the promises to Abram and his descendants were purely gracious and unconditional. These either have been or will yet be literally fulfilled. Other promises were conditional upon the faithfulness and obedience of the Israelites. Every one of these conditions was violated, and the dispensation of promise resulted in the failure of Israel and closed in the judgment of bondage in Egypt."
"The book of Genesis, which opens with the sublime words, "In the beginning God created," closes with, "In a coffin in Egypt." (See Gen. 12:1-3; Gen. 13:14-17; Gen. 15:5; Gen. 26:3; Gen. 28:12-13; Exod. 1: 13-14.)"
"The book of Genesis, which opens with the sublime words, "In the beginning God created," closes with, "In a coffin in Egypt." (See Gen. 12:1-3; Gen. 13:14-17; Gen. 15:5; Gen. 26:3; Gen. 28:12-13; Exod. 1: 13-14.)"
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Believe God's promise.
Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you.
Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you.
"Again the grace of God came to the help of helpless man and redeemed the chosen people out of the hand of the oppressor. In the wilderness of Sinai He proposed to them the covenant of law. Instead of humbly pleading for a continued relation of grace, they presumptuously answered: "All that the Lord hath spoken we will do." The history of Israel in the wilderness and in the land is one long record of flagrant, persistent violation of the law, and at last, after multiplied warnings, God closed the testing of man by law in judgment: first Israel, and then Judah, were driven out of the land into a dispersion which still continues. A feeble remnant returned under Ezra and Nehemiah, of which, in due time, Christ came: "Born of a woman-made under the law." Both Jews and Gentiles conspired to crucify Him. (See Exod. 19:1-8; 2 Kings 17:1-18; 2 Kings 25: 1 -11; Acts 2:22-23; Acts 7:5152; Rom. 3:19-20; Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3: 10.)"
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Obey God and keep His commandments.
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth [is] Mine.
"The sacrificial death of the Lord Jesus Christ introduced the dispensation of pure grace, which means undeserved favor, or God giving righteousness, instead of God requiring righteousness, as under law. Salvation, perfect and eternal, is now freely offered to Jew and Gentile upon the acknowledgment of sin, or repentance, with faith in Christ."
"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:29). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (John 6:47). "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24). "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10:27-28). "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).
The predicted result of this testing of man under grace is judgment upon an unbelieving world and an apostate church. (See Luke 17:26-30; Luke 18:8; 2 Thess. 2:7-12; Rev. 3:15-16.)
The first event in the closing of this dispensation will be the descent of the Lord from heaven, when sleeping saints will be raised and, together with believers then living, caught up "to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (I Thess. 4:16-17). Then follows the brief period called "the great tribulation." (See Jer. 30:5-7; Dan. 12:1; Zeph. 1:15-18; Matt. 24:21-22.)
After this the personal return of the Lord to the earth in power and great glory occurs, and the judgments which introduce the seventh, and last dispensation. (See Matt. 25:31-46 and Matt. 24:29- 30.)"
Comment:
Some teachers number the Tribulation as one of the dispensations, while combining the dispensations of Promise & Law. However, we see the Tribulation as a special period during which human civilization crumbles under the weight of the combined features of its ages long rejection of God.
Salvation Gospel in this dispensation:
Confess Jesus as Lord and believe in His resurrection.
Confess Jesus as Lord and believe in His resurrection.
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
"After the purifying judgments which attend the personal return of Christ to the earth, He will reign over restored Israel and over the earth for one thousand years. This is the period commonly called the millennium. The seat of His power will be Jerusalem, and the saints, including the saved of the dispensation of grace, namely the church, will be associated with Him in His glory. (See Isa. 2:1-4; Isa. 11; Acts 15:14-17; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 20:1-6.
But when Satan is "loosed a little season," he finds the natural heart as prone to evil as ever, and easily gathers the nations to battle against the Lord and His saints, and this last dispensation closes, like all the others, in judgment. The great white throne is set, the wicked dead are raised and finally judged, and then come the "new heaven and a new earth." Eternity is begun. (See Rev. 20:3,7-15; Rev. 21 and 22.)"
^by Dr. C. I. Scofield^
Ask God why the 1000 years. He is doing it, and He is the One who inspired John to write about it. Do you still deny that there is a thousand years between the first resurrection and the second resurrection? They you deny scripture.
YES you do REJECT THAT. HELLO....over TWO THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED ALREADY !!! Millennium means 1000. But thats right...you said in another post that the Jews identified the millennium straight away as meaning 2000 years !!!! that THEY (Jews) understood the millennium as some messianic age whatever that means...so what you declare is that YOU will listen to those of whom God declared: MY PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW ME !!!!! And : "Because thou hast REJECTED knowledge, I will ALSO REJECT thee. So God is telling us that Israel DO NOT KNOW HIM, nor do they have KNOWLEDGE (of Him)...yet YOU accept their version of millennium? So if THEY do NOT know Him, and you cast your lot with THEIR interpretation...well...do i need say any more?
UNTIL you are able to discern that there is indeed the Jewish Kingdom of Israel, and the Spiritual Kingdom where the saints will be gathered to, you will not be able to match scripture with understanding.
notice also Jesus ALSO says the kingdom is in place NOW:
Can you not grasp that there is a earthly kingdom known as kingdom of Israel? Haven't you read the scriptures declaring it both old and new? NOT the kingdom WE wait for, but the Jewish earthly kingdom of whom SEPARATE PROMISES were made to since the days of Moses? BEFORE Christs church came?
You also conveniently left out something: Matthew 13:30 ........but GATHER the WHEAT INTO MY BARN. Here the BARN is His SPIRITUAL KINGDOM. IF they are already in this kingdom, what is this GATHER THEM INTO MY BARN? They should ALREADY be there by YOUR theory. But instead we see that His people need to be PUT into this BARN, GATHERED out of the world and PUT into His BARN. And IF we are already in this kingdom, WHY are we still flesh?
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
ERROR. Your theory does indeed cancel out Christs Word. You still conveniently PUT ASIDE Matthew25 amongst many others:
WHEN the Son of man SHALL COME in His glory, and ALL the Holy angels with Him, THEN SHALL He SIT upon the throne of His glory.
When...when...WHEN He COMES...WHEN He COMES...WHEN He COMES THEN...when He COMES THEN...WHEN He COMES THEN shall HE SIT...THEN shall He SIT...SHALL SIT...SHALL SIT...SHALL SIT upon the THRONE...SHALL SIT upon the THRONE...upon the THRONE of HIS GLORY. WHEN HE COMES !!!!
This was written AFTER He was crucified !!!!!!
How is this hard to understand?
what's the problem? [/quote]
Until you are able to discern the difference of kingdoms, and the TWO ages, the rest of what you wrote is a waste of time answering.
YES you do REJECT THAT. HELLO....over TWO THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED ALREADY !!! Millennium means 1000. But thats right...you said in another post that the Jews identified the millennium straight away as meaning 2000 years !!!! that THEY (Jews) understood the millennium as some messianic age whatever that means...so what you declare is that YOU will listen to those of whom God declared: MY PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW ME !!!!! And : "Because thou hast REJECTED knowledge, I will ALSO REJECT thee. So God is telling us that Israel DO NOT KNOW HIM, nor do they have KNOWLEDGE (of Him)...yet YOU accept their version of millennium? So if THEY do NOT know Him, and you cast your lot with THEIR interpretation...well...do i need say any more?
UNTIL you are able to discern that there is indeed the Jewish Kingdom of Israel, and the Spiritual Kingdom where the saints will be gathered to, you will not be able to match scripture with understanding.
notice also Jesus ALSO says the kingdom is in place NOW:
Can you not grasp that there is a earthly kingdom known as kingdom of Israel? Haven't you read the scriptures declaring it both old and new? NOT the kingdom WE wait for, but the Jewish earthly kingdom of whom SEPARATE PROMISES were made to since the days of Moses? BEFORE Christs church came?
You also conveniently left out something: Matthew 13:30 ........but GATHER the WHEAT INTO MY BARN. Here the BARN is His SPIRITUAL KINGDOM. IF they are already in this kingdom, what is this GATHER THEM INTO MY BARN? They should ALREADY be there by YOUR theory. But instead we see that His people need to be PUT into this BARN, GATHERED out of the world and PUT into His BARN. And IF we are already in this kingdom, WHY are we still flesh?
Dispensations and the belief in them may be wrong, but this does not invalidate the 1000 year reign of Christ, which is spoken of often in scripture. To deny it so is not a salvation issue, but the way in which you deny this is cause for concern.
ERROR. Your theory does indeed cancel out Christs Word. You still conveniently PUT ASIDE Matthew25 amongst many others:
WHEN the Son of man SHALL COME in His glory, and ALL the Holy angels with Him, THEN SHALL He SIT upon the throne of His glory.
When...when...WHEN He COMES...WHEN He COMES...WHEN He COMES THEN...when He COMES THEN...WHEN He COMES THEN shall HE SIT...THEN shall He SIT...SHALL SIT...SHALL SIT...SHALL SIT upon the THRONE...SHALL SIT upon the THRONE...upon the THRONE of HIS GLORY. WHEN HE COMES !!!!
This was written AFTER He was crucified !!!!!!
How is this hard to understand?
what's the problem? [/quote]
Until you are able to discern the difference of kingdoms, and the TWO ages, the rest of what you wrote is a waste of time answering.
1,000 YEAR REIGN FROM OLD JERUSALEM?
The Seven Dispensations
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth
by Dr. C. I. Scofield
ERROR. There are only TWO ages in Gods eyes. So you see, i already disagree with this person YOU say i endorse. So that is TWO errors.
ERROR. God set a trap for Satan here. Why do you think He ALLOWED Satan to deceive Eve? It is a PLAN in progress. Do you suppose God did not know this would happen considering he is yesterday today and tomorrow?
God accomplished His will. NOW man had a conscience to CHOOSE good or evil. NOW God can sift the people. Those that are to be His, and those who are not. This man/doctrine obviously does not understand His PLAN.
There are only TWO ages. Not 7.
Correct. The resurrected will be changed into SPIRIT (if he believes this point that is), these resurrected saints will be the teachers in Christs Name...teaching FLESH for 1000 years.
^by Dr. C. I. Scofield^
ERROR. God set a trap for Satan here. Why do you think He ALLOWED Satan to deceive Eve? It is a PLAN in progress. Do you suppose God did not know this would happen considering he is yesterday today and tomorrow?
Here, God puts forth the ILLUSION Satan has thwarted Him. NOW Satan can grow in CONFIDENCE in himself, believing he can indeed thwart God. The trap is perfect in its execution. Satan exalts himself greatly now, and will suppose he can achieve his own designs of godhood.
As stated, there are only TWO ages. This man is wrong.
As stated, there are only TWO ages.
As stated, there are only TWO ages. And there are TWO covenants, the old and the new. So this man is in ERROR dividing the ages into 7 instead of 2.
This man does not realize that grace comes with CONDITIONS. And that condition is that we must CONTINUE in the WAY to preserve that given grace, lest we be CUT OFF. 1 Tim 2:15, 1 Tim 4:16, 2 Tim 3:14, Acts 14:22, Coloss 1:23, John 15:9, Romans 11:22.
Incomplete understanding. Even Satan believes, yet he trembles. Belief in itself without the full explanation of complementing scriptures is erroneous. One must live the way and sacrifice sins to herald in change and growth. And that growth comes from the Spirit God puts in those of His, NOT from mans works alone. For this work can not be accomplished without Gods help. For mere belief is faith without works, and works on its own is not acceptable, neither is faith on its own, for faith without works is DEATH. But works through faith, which is faith through works, these complement the other to form a personal working relationship with God that is acceptable. We don't just sit back for the ride as this man seems to teach, WE must STRIVE also. And that striving is WORKS in FAITH rewarded. You cannot work without faith in Whom you work for.
The predicted result of this testing of man under grace is judgment upon an unbelieving world and an apostate church. (See Luke 17:26-30; Luke 18:8; 2 Thess. 2:7-12; Rev. 3:15-16.)
ERROR. This man has it wrong. Tribulation comes BEFORE Christ returns.
There are only TWO ages. Not 7.
Correct. But NOT all men follow Satan in this last SIFTING. ONLY those who care not for Christs teachings. NOT ALL...
^by Dr. C. I. Scofield^
There has only been one person resurrected so far......Jesus. (I am alive in Him, in His resurrection.)
John saw a future resurrection, after the tribulation. All those who died in Christ during the tribulation.
John saw another resurrection that was 1000 years later. All those who had died, but were not in Christ.
What a huge leap to justify your disbelief some strange doctrine, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, that you must mystify the scripture, make is even harder to understand, because when the Spirit says 1000 years, He meant that to be symbolic rather than literal.
By doing this, you have made scripture worthless. I believe scripture in a more tangible way than you.
You know, there are no dispensations. There is only God saving people. The real enemy is the ignorance of those He is trying to save, as they deny His working at every hand. Just as He has said, He has held out His hand, all day long, to a stiff necked and obstinate people. The day is very close when He will not hold out His hand any longer.
You see, that is what the 1000 year reign is all about. We, that is, people, have had it our way from Adam. Making our own decisions, doing with the earth as we please, ruining and raping and waging war. The earth is dying, not because it is wearing out, or because there are too many people, but because man ignores God and goes his own way. Well, sometime soon, God will intervene, and man's rule, (read Satan's rule,) will end, and the earth will be ruled by the God Man, who will rule with a rod of iron. A benevolent rule to be sure, but if a nation does against His wishes, they will rue the day. And Satan will be bound in the pit so that he cannot deceive the nations any more. And the result of this? Man is utterly corrupt, and just as soon as the devil is released, they turn against God, against Jesus Christ on the world's throne. (John saw this future event also.)
So, you have a problem with your bible interpretation. Some is symbolic, some is literal, some is not to be read at all, as it don't mean anything.
The Word of Life is Jesus Christ, who gave the revelation of Himself to John. Jesus is going to reveal Himself to the world at large. No one will be able to deny Him, of those in heaven or those on the earth. EVERY KNEE WILL BEND TO HIS ETERNAL GLORY.
You want to take that away from Him. Good luck.
John saw a future resurrection, after the tribulation. All those who died in Christ during the tribulation.
John saw another resurrection that was 1000 years later. All those who had died, but were not in Christ.
What a huge leap to justify your disbelief some strange doctrine, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, that you must mystify the scripture, make is even harder to understand, because when the Spirit says 1000 years, He meant that to be symbolic rather than literal.
By doing this, you have made scripture worthless. I believe scripture in a more tangible way than you.
You know, there are no dispensations. There is only God saving people. The real enemy is the ignorance of those He is trying to save, as they deny His working at every hand. Just as He has said, He has held out His hand, all day long, to a stiff necked and obstinate people. The day is very close when He will not hold out His hand any longer.
You see, that is what the 1000 year reign is all about. We, that is, people, have had it our way from Adam. Making our own decisions, doing with the earth as we please, ruining and raping and waging war. The earth is dying, not because it is wearing out, or because there are too many people, but because man ignores God and goes his own way. Well, sometime soon, God will intervene, and man's rule, (read Satan's rule,) will end, and the earth will be ruled by the God Man, who will rule with a rod of iron. A benevolent rule to be sure, but if a nation does against His wishes, they will rue the day. And Satan will be bound in the pit so that he cannot deceive the nations any more. And the result of this? Man is utterly corrupt, and just as soon as the devil is released, they turn against God, against Jesus Christ on the world's throne. (John saw this future event also.)
So, you have a problem with your bible interpretation. Some is symbolic, some is literal, some is not to be read at all, as it don't mean anything.
The Word of Life is Jesus Christ, who gave the revelation of Himself to John. Jesus is going to reveal Himself to the world at large. No one will be able to deny Him, of those in heaven or those on the earth. EVERY KNEE WILL BEND TO HIS ETERNAL GLORY.
You want to take that away from Him. Good luck.
dear devo.
since you are struggling i will try to write simply.
a thousand years is a figure of speech used to denote the length of the messianic portion of the verlasting kingdom.
it means the time from the inaguration of the kingdom (First Advent) to the consummation of this AGE (world).
there is a thousand years between the first and second resurrections.
we are in the the period symbolically termed a thousand years.
all who die in Christ are with Him now. over them the second death has no power. they will receive their glorified bodies at the second resurrection.
Dispensationalists who falsely claim to interpret the Bible "literally" have ruined the people's understanding of the parenthetical Chapter Revelation 20, which uses symbol language to describe the events therein.
you are a dispensationalist, though you may legitimately deny having ever heard of Cyrus Scofield, every single one of your posts evidences that you interpret the Bible they way the last two generations of goos sheeple have been conditioned to do.
to make matters worse, you have claimed NO presuppositions, rather Special Revelation from The Holy Spirit.
and i know you see cracks forming in your foundation, yet there is no signal to any who have believed or run with your teachings that perhaps you have been wrong and are reconsidering. that means you are still teaching Dispensational theology (whatever YOU choose to call it doesn't matter one iota).
Proverbs 18:13
He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.
find the post where i said the jews identify the millennium as 2000 years. i will continue to make this request until you do so.
the Talmud declares the jews will reign over the world for 1,000 years with their mosiach. that period will begin (they think to indeed continue for 1,000 years) during satan's short space, and we are not far from it: nearly everything is in place, including apostate xtians who are merrily helping build Mystery Babylon's seat.
if you have been paying attention (which you clearly have not), you would know that i alone on this site (though Scott has come forward on his own - YAY SCOTT!) have endured the ridicule, outrage and general trashing by pointing to the heretical and antichrist teachings of Judaism. i've shown how they are tending to the branch of Christian Zionism, and it's TREE, Dispensational Theology.
i have never even any way shape or form "listened" to them to learn TRUTH (since they have none), though i read all their writings, since i obey Christ's repeated warnings to BEWARE THE LEAVEN OF THE PHARISEES.
your efforts to discredit me by making a feeble attempt to link me to Babylonian Talmudic Traditions is laughable. >> you're the one attached to Babylon dude...not me.
even while denying in another place that you believe and teach Scofieldism (Talmudism), you do it above.
so, you continue (though subtly) to teach that Jesus is not the Messiah for the jews; that the church is not the body of believers who have entered into the New (and Last and Only) Covenant - both jew and gentile.
disgraceful. you've been shown the truth but hold to the lie.
this is pure heresy.
you would shut the jews out of the New Covenant; proclaim there are Two Covenants in place; rebuild the wall of partition Jesus tore down; say Godspeed to and assist the Great Whore in her endeavours to reign over the whole world (she thinks for a literal 1,000 years):
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
that makes you a partaker of her sins.
2 John 2:11
Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
again, i'll try to make it simple for you (this is a little perplexing for you are not without intellect..oh well)....
there are saints who FELL ASLEEP who are reigning with Jesus now, and there are those of us who are alive on earth. at the END, Jesus gathers ALL the wheat into His Barn (NEW EARTH, NEW JERUSALEM, ETERNITY). whether asleep or alive, we are in His Kingdom. His Kingdom is everlasting, and this messianic portion will close at The Second Advent with Judgment.
the gathering is the END OF THE WORLD. the end of THIS WORLD AGE.
there's only one more AGE: the WORLD TO COME >> ETERNITY.
Two Ages....no 1,000 mystery gap between the Second Coming and gathering and New heavens and New Earth.
but, unfortunately for you, your Dispensational teachers don't believe in the Two-Age model....they have DISPENSATIONS....get it? (i doubt it).
you look silly every time you do this
are you okay? do you have cranial keyboard imbedment syndrome? rant and repeat all you want devo: the truth is you're still spinning your wheels in doctrines of devils known as dispensationalism.
i'm enjoying the simplicity and beauty of the Two Age Covenant structure of The Bible: TOTALLY CHRIST-CENTERED.
the scene you are talking about is THE GREAT CONSUMMATION. not hard devo.
heresy.
One King, One Lord, One Priest, One Covenant, One Body, ONE ETERNITY.
Two Ages?
instead of having integrity and admitting you may have been deceived and deceiving, you're now going to attempt to lay claim to knoledge of the Two Ages...that's nowhere to be found in any of your posts: unles you are taking the Reformed RIGHT understanding of the Two Ages and warp it to fit your Jewish Talmudic Utopian literal 1,000 years (btw: where is the church again? in spirit bodies appearing and disappearing while flesh men resurrected temporarily into second flesh bodies do things out of the Old Covenant? where is jesus again during this fable? Glorified jesus in all His Glory is reigning from where during your two-age model? from earthly jerusalem God has already said is a whore who will have wrath poured out double on her?
or is your jesus ruling from heaven while flesh jews who have been resurrected into temporary second bodies? is david ruling on a throneon earth in that cartoon?
no, you agree with this doctrine.
you just won't call it Scofieldism.
if you disagreed with it, why did you rush out and use it to refute Reformed Theology's Two Age Covenant Christocentric model (which is not theirs anyway - it's in Scripture?
did that attempt to hurt me help anyone devo? do you always attempt to refute people's work by using heresy? and then later deny you agree with it?
OH NO! AGREEING WITH CATHOLICS!!!! eeeewwww........(you're such a child, devo).
i don't have to accuse you. your own posts prove you COMPLETELY teach that doctrine...even worse forms of it.
i do intend to completely expose dispensational heresy for the sake OF OTHERS who wish to avoid it.
you're just making it easier.
you just won't call it Scofieldism.
if you disagreed with it, why did you rush out and use it to refute Reformed Theology's Two Age Covenant Christocentric model (which is not theirs anyway - it's in Scripture?
did that attempt to hurt me help anyone devo? do you always attempt to refute people's work by using heresy? and then later deny you agree with it?
OH NO! AGREEING WITH CATHOLICS!!!! eeeewwww
........(you're such a child, devo).i don't have to accuse you. your own posts prove you COMPLETELY teach that doctrine...even worse forms of it.
i do intend to completely expose dispensational heresy for the sake OF OTHERS who wish to avoid it.
you're just making it easier.
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Just about as much as you are.
I knew that you would not actually read what I wrote, any more than I read those page long ramblings which are quotes from other so called experts. At least, what I have said to you is not from reasoning, or from some other person's reasoning, but from what I heard from the Holy Spirit. You see, I am not telling you what I believe, I am telling you what I have heard from Him.
So, as you so aptly phrased it............go figure.
I knew that you would not actually read what I wrote, any more than I read those page long ramblings which are quotes from other so called experts. At least, what I have said to you is not from reasoning, or from some other person's reasoning, but from what I heard from the Holy Spirit. You see, I am not telling you what I believe, I am telling you what I have heard from Him.
So, as you so aptly phrased it............go figure.