Salvation, How do I find it?

[homwardbound]

“Learn the difference. Genuine faith trusts in the right object and results in being made alive together with Christ/created in Christ Jesus unto/for good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. “


An interesting read through .


do you think abiding in the doctrine or words of Christ in the gospel has anything to do with us being changed ?

I think, believe Jesus is risen by Father for us to get given new life in his risen Life to abide in it and take no credit to self once one sees themselves abiding in it
Settling
Luke 21:14
Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luke 21:15
for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

That above is not easy for any flesh first birth to believe, accept and receive, yet when anyone does sincerely, then Father (PaPa) begins the new work though us, at least me.
Watching, watched evil fall away, since God by Son took care of that for us all at that one time willing death, that I stand in believe to it, blows my mind seeing God take away sin first by Son for us all to be given it too. then through God Father's kids in belief get to see it and be new in love to all. Floors me daily yes new life born new in love to all, no matter what, blowing me pout of the water again
thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

 

[GWH]

Actually, Scripture DOES say in MT 7:7 (cf. HB 11:6) that those who seek will find, but you should find that this exchange illustrates the importance of seeking to harmonize everything that is found in GW rather than merely prooftext.

We see Jesus exemplifying this truth when he harmonized Scripture by telling Satan (who had cited PS 91:11-12), "It is ALSO written..." (MT 4:6-7).

On the other hand, you won't find it over here--or over there (MT 24:26).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's the change that makes the difference and abiding in the doctrine of Christ, in the gospel is the demonstrative evidence that we are genuine believers who have been changed.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Believers have been changed.

2 Peter 1:4 - For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Moral self-reformation, behavior modification is not a substitute for regeneration.

“It's the change that makes the difference and abiding in the doctrine of Christ, in the gospel is the demonstrative evidence that we are genuine believers who have been changed”

So if anyone isn’t walking in the doctrine of Christ , it would be proof they aren’t a genuine “ born again “ believer ? And we’re never in Christ ?

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;”

What does it mean to be in Christ ?

And do you see a cause and effect here for those who believe in Jesus ?

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32KJV‬‬

is he saying I’ll set you free and then you can keep my word and know the truth ? Or now that you believe in me , if you continue in my word you’ll know the truth , and the truth will set you free as a result of you continuing in my word ?

I guess it’s the chicken and egg thing . are the first magically given the truth and set free , then they can hear and follow after his word ?

Or does the hearing and following after his word he told the believers to do result in freedom as the Lord said ? And the seed for the bearing of the fruits ?

Hearing those things in the gospel that change our thinking changes our mind when we accept them

“And call no man your father upon the earth: ( flesh perspective every human recognizes thier earthly father in some manner it’s nature )

for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”( spiritual perspective preached in the gospel )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is the proper way for Christian’s to view thier relationship with God as thier Heavenly Father . And I’m not trying to “ teach you this “ I’m sure you know

But I’m saying until we hear those things in the gospel and accept them we can’t know and believe them and follow after them .


Consider this point of Paul’s audience

“But ye have not so learned Christ; if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:20-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All of those instructions are really important to us changing is the point as well as being people that have heard the gospel and teachings of Jesus and learned from him

And he’s explaining why they don’t live sinful lives anymore like others do , and how believing Jesus and learning from him changed the spirit of thier mind as they repented from the old life they lived in sin and corruption and began to clothed themselves and out on the image of Christ found in bekieving the gospel .

theres a cause and effect is all I mean to say I think what you said is interesting and well said though don’t get me wrong

Im asking do you think there’s a process whereby we need to hear and believe the gospel before those things apply to us ? Or for instance

doesnt this address people who’ve been baptized for remission of sins in Jesus name ?

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see how even this one element also lends to a new beginning a newness of life for those who’ve been baptized into Christ. Does all of it just happen or are we supposed to learn and apply our faith and then receive the result he promised ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's the change that makes the difference and abiding in the doctrine of Christ, in the gospel is the demonstrative evidence that we are genuine believers who have been changed.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Believers have been changed.

2 Peter 1:4 - For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Moral self-reformation, behavior modification is not a substitute for regeneration.

So you don’t think a man abiding in Christs word has anything to do with the change ?

 

[Magenta]

It's the change that makes the difference and abiding in the doctrine of Christ, in the gospel is the demonstrative evidence that we are genuine believers who have been changed.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. Believers have been changed.

2 Peter 1:4 - For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

Moral self-reformation, behavior modification is not a substitute for regeneration.

From 2 Corinthians 5:17 and Romans 6:13

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think, believe Jesus is risen by Father for us to get given new life in his risen Life to abide in it and take no credit to self once one sees themselves abiding in it
Settling
Luke 21:14
Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luke 21:15
for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

That above is not easy for any flesh first birth to believe, accept and receive, yet when anyone does sincerely, then Father (PaPa) begins the new work though us, at least me.
Watching, watched evil fall away, since God by Son took care of that for us all at that one time willing death, that I stand in believe to it, blows my mind seeing God take away sin first by Son for us all to be given it too. then through God Father's kids in belief get to see it and be new in love to all. Floors me daily yes new life born new in love to all, no matter what, blowing me pout of the water again
thank you Father and Son as Won (One)

Yeah brother but I can’t forsake the things Jesus taught and just agree with someone who is telling me different things are the things to believe

Amy beliefs are in the things jesus the lord taught his disciples and promised salvation and eternal life and an everlasting kingdom

i don’t want to forget what he taught and just agree with other stuff you know ? I do t want to read a Joseph prince book , and then say well that settles it I can just forget the things Jesus said will save me or condemn me now I feel secure so I’ll not pre what he said ….

i can’t do that I’m in my seventh decade and have always believed the things the lord taught in the gospel I can’t forsake them now approaching my departure , I’ll live by his word after I leave the world or I’ll die because I was wrong to believe what he said would save my soul

 

[ServantofMostHigh]

it finds you , meditate on that and when you understand ask what the answer to the Question Michael is, if you find that Answer how sweet it will be to your Heart, please come back and tell me what you learned from the Quest, and then you can help me, Shalom xx

 

[Beckworth]

In Matthew 7, this was mere "lip service" confession when calling Jesus Lord. Jesus never knew these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 which means they were never saved. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing Jesus as Lord. (1 Corinthians 12:3) This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe that), but is a deep, personal conviction from the heart that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior.

Simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

You remain confused over "faith only" as if James was teaching that we are saved by faith and works. In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) How about a little context.

In James 2:14, we read of one who SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

I've heard certain folks (especially those who attend the church of Christ) misinterpret Romans 10:9-10 in such a way that means we can believe unto righteousness today, but are still lost until we confess Christ, which may be next week and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Confession is not a work for salvation that comes after we believe unto righteousness. (see Romans 4:5-6) Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to "verbally confess with their mouth."

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving "lip service" to the words "Jesus is Lord" (reciting those words) not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

I already covered 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16 with you in post #177 from the linke below:
James 2:14-26, A verse by verse study - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

It certainly is not hard. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. This is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT.

The sinner's prayer may be used to call on the name of the Lord but is useless if we are simply reciting a set of words as if they are a magic formula for being saved apart from repentance and faith.

Acts 8:35-38 is an example of how a person was saved in the New Testament. When Phillip “preached Jesus” to the eunuch, he believed what Phillip said and asked to be baptized. Wonder how he knew about baptism??? It would have had to have been in the gospel that Phillip taught him. Phillip asked him if he believed, and he CONFESSED “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Thus obeying not only Roman 10:10 but also Matt. 10:32- “whoever confesses me before men, I will confess him before my Father;”.

Besides that, I actually know a true story of a deaf mute who came forward to be saved during an invitation. The preacher turned to Acts 8: 37 and pointed at the sentence that said, “ if you believe with all your heart”. To which the mute shook his head “yes” and then pointed at the part of the verse that says, “ I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” The preacher then baptized him. So not being able to “speak” is not a problem. COMMUNICATION does not always demand being able to speak. They could have also used sign language or pencil and paper.

If you want to leave “confession “ out and take your chances with God, you surely can do so. I wonder why God went to the trouble to include the commands to confess plus a very specific example showing us what He wants, if we can just ignore it.

Revelation 22:18-19 warns us not to “take away” from God’s words.

 

[greenonions]

I do agree with you that man cannot and will not ever work his way into salvation, he will not ever make that happen. But when we look at all scripture related to a topic, we see something that lets us know there is more to it than just having faith.

(Jas 2:18) But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
(Jam 2:20) But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
(Jam 2:26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Please read scriptures without your preconceived thoughts, because I'm trying to save your soul.

James offered two examples of faith with works: Abraham offering Isaac, and Rahab hiding the spies. Note that Rahab hiding the spies is not keeping the law. It involved lying and betraying her city, but it demonstrated that she believed the God of Israel was the living God. So James is not saying faith without "keeping the the whole law" is dead.

 

[mailmandan]

“It's the change that makes the difference and abiding in the doctrine of Christ, in the gospel is the demonstrative evidence that we are genuine believers who have been changed”

So if anyone isn’t walking in the doctrine of Christ , it would be proof they aren’t a genuine “ born again “ believer ? And we’re never in Christ ?

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In 2 John 1:9, we see two camps. Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ do not have God" and "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. -- "unbelievers and believers contrasted."

1. "Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God"
2. "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son."

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;”

What does it mean to be in Christ?

In short it means we (believers) are a part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and are in union with Christ which has a many benefits. (1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6; 1 Timothy 1:14 etc..).

And do you see a cause and effect here for those who believe in Jesus?

Cause believe, effect continue.

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32KJV‬‬

“If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples. (NASB 1995)

is he saying I’ll set you free and then you can keep my word and know the truth? Or now that you believe in me , if you continue in my word you’ll know the truth , and the truth will set you free as a result of you continuing in my word?

I guess it’s the chicken and egg thing . are the first magically given the truth and set free , then they can hear and follow after his word ?

Or does the hearing and following after his word he told the believers to do result in freedom as the Lord said? And the seed for the bearing of the fruits ?

Those who continue demonstrate they truly are disciples of Jesus. Those who fail to continue demonstrate otherwise. (John 6:64-66) The first step in progress towards discipleship is faith in Jesus for salvation. The truth here is not only a reference to the facts surrounding Jesus as the Messiah and salvation through faith in Him but also further divine truth that He brought which brings us freedom.

But I’m saying until we hear those things in the gospel and accept them we can’t know and believe them and follow after them .

Yes.

Im asking do you think there’s a process whereby we need to hear and believe the gospel before those things apply to us? Or for instance

doesnt this address people who’ve been baptized for remission of sins in Jesus name?

There is a process of hearing, conviction then changing our mind before we believe the gospel and having those things apply to us. Water baptism does not obtain remission of sins but is in regard to/on the basis of remission of sins received upon repentance/faith. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 26:18)

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is signified but is not procured in water baptism. Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality.

see how even this one element also lends to a new beginning a newness of life for those who’ve been baptized into Christ. Does all of it just happen or are we supposed to learn and apply our faith and then receive the result he promised?

Being "baptized into Christ" does not mean being literally water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense.

 

[mailmandan]

So you don’t think a man abiding in Christs word has anything to do with the change ?

Not initial change when we are justified by faith but further change as we as Christians continue in the process of ongoing sanctification. Romans 12:2 - Do not conform to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

[mailmandan]

Acts 8:35-38 is an example of how a person was saved in the New Testament. When Phillip “preached Jesus” to the eunuch, he believed what Phillip said and asked to be baptized. Wonder how he knew about baptism???

From Phillip.

It would have had to have been in the gospel that Phillip taught him.

Water baptism is not a part of the gospel message that saves. (Acts 15:7-9; Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Phillip asked him if he believed, and he CONFESSED “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Thus obeying not only Roman 10:10 but also Matt. 10:32- “whoever confesses me before men, I will confess him before my Father;”.

The eunuch said that he believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God and what was the result of his belief? John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. What happened to baptism? Romans 10:10 is not about obeying it as a work for salvation. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation.

Besides that, I actually know a true story of a deaf mute who came forward to be saved during an invitation. The preacher turned to Acts 8:37 and pointed at the sentence that said, “ if you believe with all your heart”. To which the mute shook his head “yes” and then pointed at the part of the verse that says, “ I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

That deaf mute person was saved the moment he believed. (John 3:15,16,18; 20:31)

The preacher then baptized him. So not being able to “speak” is not a problem.

Not at all because the word of faith was still in his mouth (even though he was mute) and in his heart (Romans 10:8) and confession with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10)

COMMUNICATION does not always demand being able to speak. They could have also used sign language or pencil and paper.

Yet Romans 10:9 says confess with your mouth. So, it could not be a work for salvation or else a deaf mute person would remain lost for failing to verbally confess with their mouth. Again, confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation. That is why we will be saved if we confess.

If you want to leave “confession “ out and take your chances with God, you surely can do so. I wonder why God went to the trouble to include the commands to confess plus a very specific example showing us what He wants, if we can just ignore it.

I don't leave confession out as a confirmation of faith. At the moment I was saved when I believed the gospel, the first words out of my mouth were words of praise to Jesus as Lord with my hands raised in the air and I was thanking Him for saving me. Praise God!

Revelation 22:18-19 warns us not to “take away” from God’s words.

Straw man argument.

 

[homwardbound]

is he saying I’ll set you free and then you can keep my word and know the truth ? Or now that you believe in me , if you continue in my word you’ll know the truth , and the truth will set you free as a result of you continuing in my word ?

That is a perplexity, a conundrum, that the first born flesh can't figure out, at least me I never could, only God can and did it by Son for us to learn new from every mistake made, to be accountable to them and see new in love to all not a few.
God by Son that is risen is where anyone to me gets set free. This is from God's vantage point. Now that can take a while to learn and see, as Father remains patient in the training, not ever condemning anyone ever again, since Son took away all sin on that cross first. If one is not maturing, then that one might not yet be in yet. God desires us all, yet never by any force or manipulation ever to me at least, this I see and have seen.
Those that do sincerely believe God in Son, get taught new, Not all at once, having many things happen to them at one moment in time, an hour, a week, a month a year, a decade
Getting the picture?
Eph 1:6,7,13
Accepted
Forgiven
Sealed
in the beloved To do what?
Grow us up, if one remains willing and lets go of work to do to be in trust to Father and Son alone. Not as, in religion uses to get people following them, saying out of one side of their mouth they believe God then out of the other continue in sinful behavior., making their converts twice the Son of Hell as themselves.
These tell the truth about God, yet these do not do the truth these act as if are set free and are not, why???
I say for you to not do. What do I do or have I done? Rebellion, sin takes occasion by the command to not do it, Who are I? Am I right to tell others to quit? Or is it better to say to them, what you are doing I see is not good for you, yet if you choose to continue so be it, I stand in trust to my Father (PaPa) to teach you truth over error, thank you no condemning
My eldest brother said those words to me at age 21, 7 years later I stopped the drinking I was doing that was harmful to me and others, been dry ever since being willing to God to leave it behind and not be under Law that kept me from quitting it, being told I had better or else attitude of the flesh natured people that think they are doing good and are not. Using the I am doing good telling you to quit, really? sounds like self justification, I unfortunately have done that also, no more, thank you PaPa
Seeing, all things now by God are permissible, thanks to Son's done work, sin taken out of the way. So we can see whatever we do as beneficial or not to this love and mercy given us.
then one willingly quits doing wrong respectfully to God above it all first, at least me, thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Yeah brother but I can’t forsake the things Jesus taught and just agree with someone who is telling me different things are the things to believe

Amy beliefs are in the things jesus the lord taught his disciples and promised salvation and eternal life and an everlasting kingdom

i don’t want to forget what he taught and just agree with other stuff you know ? I do t want to read a Joseph prince book , and then say well that settles it I can just forget the things Jesus said will save me or condemn me now I feel secure so I’ll not pre what he said ….

i can’t do that I’m in my seventh decade and have always believed the things the lord taught in the gospel I can’t forsake them now approaching my departure , I’ll live by his word after I leave the world or I’ll die because I was wrong to believe what he said would save my soul

We, each are in different stages of belief, each growing up into maturity. I think and trust to Father, you are doing well, :"you believe God in risen Son" Thanks, you are well by God not anyone else or even self.
I see you have no desire to sin ever again and yet have as all have and do especially not wanting to, hating it, yet do it anyways. I am with you on that. (Romans 7)
Whatever another person sees as not good for them, then that is not good for them
It is sin to them. I am told to let it be, and continue in trust to my Father of risen Son Jesus
Growing up new, there is fear that enters the people, once beleive, whether one is doing it right or not. Religion, unfortunately teaches doubt
D-evil
O-uts
U
B-y
T-echnicalities

The "I" better or else attitudes
The "I"should haves, "I" better next time
The Guilt of doing wrong, not seeing by trying not to do wrong (under Law) brings out doing wrong. which over time doing that creates a trait in us and we cannot stop it. It all starts with any practice, that becomes a habit to a character, then becomes a trait. once see that as doing it wrong, to reverse that God does that in us, yet that old bad trait is stubborn and will not let you go. Yet if one practices daily to be dead to flesh first birth (Rom 6:11) seeing. God made them Alive in risen Son second birth, one anyone then begins the new life offered then in the risen Son, as Father will carry t on through anyone that will jot deny God no matter what troubles happen to them.
Practice the new life given you from God through risen Son, stop the I want to and I can't attitude that we are taught we can't by religion, when God can and did it for us all to be new in love and mercy to all too. God leads, not we the people.
God takes us in as adopted, grafted in, through Son's done work at that cross, to train us new, as God does this with us all that are willing. to learn new from God. thank you, to not care to learn new from me, Thank you, learn from God living. in you, desiring to live his risen Life through you. That I see you trying for that to be true through you, yet you sinning stops you and holds you back and out comes accusations in your posts. they are to you not others. Your own quilt, that God took away for you to be new only focussing on the new, not the old letter of Law, the new Law of love a mercy to all.
God is the one Qualified, not anyone else, not even preachers, teachers, these to me are to share what these have learned. it is up to others to listen and take them to Father in prayer and learn truth over error, not accusing others as if, they are out for you to get you in troubles
Whether others are or not, matters not! Seek "Gold Nuggets" out of everything you go through are going through and you will learn truth over error. God Father speaks to us within us. tells truth in love to us always, at least to me
"God just loves us all" that is amazing to me at least and has changed me and is changing me daily
Love to all is the call thanks
If I hate anyone, over anything, then I do not yet see the call of love and mercy for all and do not trust God to lead, I the old me is in the way
love to you brother Father loves us all y'all

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In 2 John 1:9, we see two camps. Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ do not have God" and "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. -- "unbelievers and believers contrasted."

1. "Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God"
2. "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son."
In short it means we (believers) are a part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and are in union with Christ which has a many benefits. (1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6; 1 Timothy 1:14 etc..).
Cause believe, effect continue.

“If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples. (NASB 1995)
Those who continue demonstrate they truly are disciples of Jesus. Those who fail to continue demonstrate otherwise. (John 6:64-66) The first step in progress towards discipleship is faith in Jesus for salvation. The truth here is not only a reference to the facts surrounding Jesus as the Messiah and salvation through faith in Him but also further divine truth that He brought which brings us freedom.
Yes.

There is a process of hearing, conviction then changing our mind before we believe the gospel and having those things apply to us. Water baptism does not obtain remission of sins but is in regard to/on the basis of remission of sins received upon repentance/faith. (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43; 26:18)

This is signified but is not procured in water baptism. Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality.

Being "baptized into Christ" does not mean being literally water baptized into the body of Christ. That is only accomplished through Spirit baptism. (1 Corinthians 12:13) Now in what "sense" would a believer be "water baptized into Christ?" In the same "sense" that the Israelites were "baptized into Moses.." (1 Corinthians 10:2) The Israelites were not literally water baptized into the body of Moses and there is little dispute that being "baptized into Moses" signified the open allegiance and public identification of the Israelites with Moses as their leader. Moses was formally recognized as the leader of the covenant people. Water baptism signifies our allegiance and public identification with Christ as our Savior, so it would only be in that sense.

1. "Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God"
2. "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son."

“Those who continue demonstrate they truly are disciples of Jesus. Those who fail to continue demonstrate otherwise. “

So it’s how people act and what they do within his doctrine that matters ? In other words our deeds reveal the truth ?

“In short it means we (believers) are a part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and are in union with Christ which has a many benefits. (1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6; 1 Timothy 1:14 etc..).
Cause believe, effect continue.”

ok but for instance do we need to be baptized into Christ ? So is this part of what puts someone in Christ ?

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do we need to be baptized into Christ ? Which is part of the doctrine ? Is this part of being in Christ ?

and do you think a believer who confesses belief in Jesus death and resurrection never had God ? Or is it more like branch that was in the vine but then didn’t abide in the vine so it was taken away from the vine ? And destroyed

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2, 4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

would you say the bad branches were never in him ? Or were they in him and then didn’t abide in him and were taken away and withered and burned ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not initial change when we are justified by faith but further change as we as Christians continue in the process of ongoing sanctification. Romans 12:2 - Do not conform to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

“initial change when we are justified by faith but further change as we as Christians continue in the process of ongoing sanctification. “

Sanctification is a one time thing accomplished by the one offering of Jesus body and blood for all

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we aren’t working out our sanctification but we are working out something through obedience as Gods word begins to change our Will and actions

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods work in us is to change our corrupt Will which changes our actions but our part is to accept and respond to what he’s teaching us through the gospel as we grow in underrrsnding then our capacity to walk upright with him grows and also our responsability

when you read about someone not abiding in his doctrine we have to remember each individual hasn’t heard the whole doctrine Jesus taught most people have heard parts of it . He doesn’t hold someone accountable for what you know or I know but what th ey know of the true gospel.

some folks are babes but it doesn’t mean they don’t belong to or aren’t in Christ

See here even though this group is still carnal it’s not that they aren’t in chrirt it’s that they are babes yet in him haven’t began to mature

“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but like a child we don’t throw them away because they are young and not informed and aren’t capable of living a mature life but they need to learn grown up things in order to become a grown up

Even when Christian’s struggle to grasp details and doctrine

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭

In Christ there are alot of babes but they do still belong to him and aren’t held to the same standard a grown up in him is

were each living by the standard we’ve been able to grasp and need to live by that faith within us that comes from his doctrine , the gospel

 

[homwardbound]

1. "Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God"
2. "those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son."

“Those who continue demonstrate they truly are disciples of Jesus. Those who fail to continue demonstrate otherwise. “

So it’s how people act and what they do within his doctrine that matters ? In other words our deeds reveal the truth ?

“In short it means we (believers) are a part of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13) and are in union with Christ which has a many benefits. (1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 15:22; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6; 1 Timothy 1:14 etc..).
Cause believe, effect continue.”

ok but for instance do we need to be baptized into Christ ? So is this part of what puts someone in Christ ?

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do we need to be baptized into Christ ? Which is part of the doctrine ? Is this part of being in Christ ?

and do you think a believer who confesses belief in Jesus death and resurrection never had God ? Or is it more like branch that was in the vine but then didn’t abide in the vine so it was taken away from the vine ? And destroyed

“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2, 4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

would you say the bad branches were never in him ? Or were they in him and then didn’t abide in him and were taken away and withered and burned ?

What, I am seeing
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:27
he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

John then sees Jesus coming, and states, Behold the Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world. (that is now done in Father's sight for us to be new in the rise Son)
Then when Jesus wants John to water baptize him. John says he Needs to be Baptized by Jesus?
Jesus says to baptize him for now, he needed to do all that is right first. Jesus 's purpose was to fulfill the Law of Moses, that is now, today done by Son. thank you

John said "I" need Baptized by you to Jesus, was that water Baptism? Actually Spirit baptism
And there is only one Baptism so which Baptism is the true baptism, water or Spirit of God Baptism?

John's job was, is over once he Baptized Jesus and announced the Messiah has arrived to save us

thanks for your sharing post of water Baptism
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What, I am seeing
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:27
he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

John then sees Jesus coming, and states, Behold the Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world. (that is now done in Father's sight for us to be new in the rise Son)
Then when Jesus wants John to water baptize him. John says he Needs to be Baptized by Jesus?
Jesus says to baptize him for now, he needed to do all that is right first. Jesus 's purpose was to fulfill the Law of Moses, that is now, today done by Son. thank you

John said "I" need Baptized by you to Jesus, was that water Baptism? Actually Spirit baptism
And there is only one Baptism so which Baptism is the true baptism, water or Spirit of God Baptism?

John's job was, is over once he Baptized Jesus and announced the Messiah has arrived to save us

thanks for your sharing post of water Baptism
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Jesus was baptized in water by John , all of Jesus disciples were baptized in water by John and spirit by the lord . After Jesus died and rose and sent them out to preach the gospel and baptize every one in his name Peter preaching the first sermon filled with the Holy Ghost ….

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water)

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( spirit )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again are they baptizing in water ? We know it’s for remission of sins in Jesus name but water still ?

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

consider that Jesus commanded them to go baptize all nations in his name . What John said is fulfilled on acts chapter 2 when they received the spirit at pentocost baptism for remission of sins hasn’t changed the apostles just explain what it means for us when we get baptized and Jesus gives us the spirit now like they couldn’t receive before he died and rose and ascended to heaven

When we are buried beneath the water and then lifted up in faith it’s meaning is here

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, ( buried beneath the water in his name who died for our sins )

we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He speaks of it again here

“buried with him in baptism, ( we’re placed below the water in his name because we believe he died for our sins ) wherein also ye are risen with him ( raised up from the water ) through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism for remission of sins in Jesus name is actually important and there’s a lot of doctrine explaining why believers do it and what it means for us. But I don’t want to argue with you about baptism I’ve had that discussion many times .

It’s ok that you believe what you believe about it , but I don’t want to argue about it either

 

[homwardbound]

again are they baptizing in water ? We know it’s for remission of sins in Jesus name but water still ?

I got water baptized, that did me no good but to be a member of a denomination. I got put under Law and got worse at sin that I had already done wrong without Law to do.
Then I had to do it and repent weekly at Church.
I see now the futility in that
Therefore by God now I am Spirit baptized in God in God's Spirit and Truth of risen Son and can care less if others accept me or not any longer, God and me are good, my conscience clear
I do not need to have any fanciful words or any need to convince anyone. God loves us all y'all
Might want to re-read 2 Cor 10-11
It is Spirit Baptism that saves
Peter said what Peter said in Acts, now read what Peter said later on in his Epistle

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
seeing the Gentile getting saved through Peter's preaching to them, being it was God speaking through Peter were saved instantly, no water Baptism. Even though Peter got them tom get water Baptized after being saved by God in belief to God's Son as risen for them. Would God take it away from them if they decided not to get water Baptized?
thank you as each decide fro them, between God and them thank you

 

[DJT_47]

How? By reading the NT scriptures pertaining to the subject and by linking the piece meal requirements together, and when you do, you get the following requirements
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of your belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism, immersion in water, for the remission of sins