SALVATION - Is Christ Accepted By Man, Or is Man Accepted By God?

[UnoiAmarah]

Belief and faith are intrinsic features in Christianity.

Don't you mean they are extrinsic features of Christianity since 'belief' and 'faith' are two diametrically opposite features, unless you are trying to suggest that Christians are doubled-minded.

Are they not pertaining to the truth of God in Christ?

Jesus did not say we speak that those things that we do believe or that which we imagine to be the truth, but rather what is written is found in John 3:11, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen;"

 

[Adstar]

Thats not what I said . Have you RECIEVED the atonement?

If you knew how once recieves the Atonement then you would have read my statement::

"""I trust in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of my sins..""""

And known i have recieved the Atonement.. So why did you reply with the same question again????

 

[throughfaith]

Doesn't matter when you were asked the question in this one.

Let us forget it. You simply don't know. There is no shame in that. There is shame in avoiding admitting that truth.

Do you want me to just copy and paste my entire post which pertains to your question, or is it just as easy to open that thread ?

 

[peldom10]

Not sure what you mean by the New Covenant contract agreement with God..?

New Testament.

 

[throughfaith]

New Testament.

I understand that New testament and new Covenant means the same thing . I'm saying that its not a ' contract ' or a covernant / testament we make with God . Its what Jesus did for us .

 

[soggykitten]

Do you want me to just copy and paste my entire post which pertains to your question, or is it just as easy to open that thread ?

I wouldn't bother to read that thread. This is my point and then we're through with this line of nonsense.
You refuse to answer the question I posed in this thread.
Then you presume to make a thread expounding on a point you refuse to answer in this thread. That's ridiculous.

 

[soggykitten]

Don't you mean they are extrinsic features of Christianity since 'belief' and 'faith' are two diametrically opposite features,

I meant precisely what I said. Faith and belief are not diametrically opposite.

unless you are trying to suggest that Christians are doubled-minded.

That would be your thinking. I never implied nor stated that.

Jesus did not say we speak that those things that we do believe or that which we imagine to be the truth, but rather what is written is found in John 3:11, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen;"

Again, that is the problem with solely relying on a single verse to make a point. John 3 itself puts Jesus conversation with Nicodemus into right perspective and therein makes verse 11 make sense in that regard.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

I meant precisely what I said. Faith and belief are not diametrically opposite.

It is written that he who comes to God must believe he is. That doesn't mean a person who wants to come to God has any knowledge that a God exists, it simply means that they have made a conscious decision to accept the possibility that a God might exists.

Faith is not defined as the act of believing. Faith is defined as hope that is based upon substance. Substance being reason that one has the expectation that the thing hoped for will come to fruition.

There is no basis for the expectation that a person who believes God exists has any reward for simply believing that God does exist, In
fact that belief doesn't even constituted hope since the passage continues with "...and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him." Since a person who believes God exists but doesn't diligently seek him does not have any realistic expectation of coming to him. And without a realistic expectation then what hope does one have in what they believe.

You believe you are saved by your faith, but faith comes by hearing and hearing by the voice of the Son of God. Since you are not going to believe that Paul wrote that faith comes by hearing the voice of the Son of God then do you believe John 5:25 is the word of God wherein it is written, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

So when was Saul saved, when he read the Old Testament scriptures and believed? Or was he saved when he heard the gospel of the Christians which he persecuted for believing? Or was Paul saved when he heard the audible voice yet seeing no man while on the road to Damascus.

Basically Paul's witness was that one is saved by hope, hope there is a God, and God has and can speak to man. If one thinks that they are saved by their faith from hearing and hearing by the word of God then hope that is seen is not hope, for why would one hope when they can see the thing hoped for.

That would be your thinking. I never implied nor stated that.

If you believe a person hearing the voice of the LORD today is a sign of a mental defect yet hearing a audible voice yet not seeing no man is not a mental defect when it written in the scriptures then that would be one of the reasons I think some people are double minded. Actions speak louder than anything implied or stated.

 

[soggykitten]

It is written that he who comes to God must believe he is. That doesn't mean a person who wants to come to God has any knowledge that a God exists, it simply means that they have made a conscious decision to accept the possibility that a God might exists.

Faith is not defined as the act of believing. Faith is defined as hope that is based upon substance. Substance being reason that one has the expectation that the thing hoped for will come to fruition.

There is no basis for the expectation that a person who believes God exists has any reward for simply believing that God does exist, In
fact that belief doesn't even constituted hope since the passage continues with "...and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him." Since a person who believes God exists but doesn't diligently seek him does not have any realistic expectation of coming to him. And without a realistic expectation then what hope does one have in what they believe.

You believe you are saved by your faith, but faith comes by hearing and hearing by the voice of the Son of God. Since you are not going to believe that Paul wrote that faith comes by hearing the voice of the Son of God then do you believe John 5:25 is the word of God wherein it is written, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

So when was Saul saved, when he read the Old Testament scriptures and believed? Or was he saved when he heard the gospel of the Christians which he persecuted for believing? Or was Paul saved when he heard the audible voice yet seeing no man while on the road to Damascus.

Basically Paul's witness was that one is saved by hope, hope there is a God, and God has and can speak to man. If one thinks that they are saved by their faith from hearing and hearing by the word of God then hope that is seen is not hope, for why would one hope when they can see the thing hoped for.

John 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Mark 11:22-24
And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If you believe a person hearing the voice of the LORD today is a sign of a mental defect yet hearing a audible voice yet not seeing no man is not a mental defect when it written in the scriptures then that would be one of the reasons I think some people are double minded. Actions speak louder than anything implied or stated.

I confess that is very confusing. I don't know what you're intending to communicate. I did not say anything about mental defect.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Faith is not defined as the act of believing. Faith is defined as hope that is based upon substance. Substance being reason that one has the expectation that the thing hoped for will come to fruition.

You are trying to make things unnecessarily complicated. Faith is BOTH the act of believing God and Christ, as well as the ultimate hope of being perfected, and in the presence of God and Christ.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Does it not mean to believe that everything revealed about Him in the New Testament is true, and that His finished work of redemption is sufficient for our salvation? That is not merely a hope but the total acceptance of a FACT. And the true response to this fact is repentance.

Saul -- the persecutor of Christians -- met Christ on the road to Damascus. That was a fact. Which to Paul also meant the fact that He was the risen Jesus of Nazareth, and therefor both Lord and Christ. So when Paul heard Jesus speaking to him, how did he respond? With perfect surrender. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Paul was trembling because he had done Christ and Christians grievous wrong, and was expecting to receive his just deserts. He was astonished that Jesus of Nazareth would even approach him and offer grace and mercy to him. But his total surrender was in his words (which acknowledged the Lordship of Christ). Paul was literally blinded by the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, and later on he would receive back his sight.

So faith is primarily based on FACTS, and the hope is in the promise of eternal life and perfection with Christ. The Gospel consists of facts: Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and rose again for our justification according to the Scriptures. But unless we repent on believe this, we cannot be saved

 

[UnoiAmarah]

John 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

On the first day of the week, when Peter and the disciple Jesus loved visited his tomb, they found that Jesus was not there.

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you .John 20:19

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Do you know why Thomas wasn't with the other disciples when Jesus came?
If you do then you should know why he wasn't there. And back in Jerusalem he met back up with the other disciples.

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord.

At which time Thomas made the comment that lead to the reason that the scripture you quoted was made.

But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. .John 20:26

Of course, Thomas went to Galilee to wait on Jesus after the crucifixion, which you can click on the question above which has a token for those went to Galilee and found what Thomas did. But there is a spoiler below with the reason why they when to Galilee.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

Spoiler: Blessed is he that take part in the first ressurrection

Mark 16:5-7
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

 

[throughfaith]

You are trying to make things unnecessarily complicated. Faith is BOTH the act of believing God and Christ, as well as the ultimate hope of being perfected, and in the presence of God and Christ.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Does it not mean to believe that everything revealed about Him in the New Testament is true, and that His finished work of redemption is sufficient for our salvation? That is not merely a hope but the total acceptance of a FACT. And the true response to this fact is repentance.

Saul -- the persecutor of Christians -- met Christ on the road to Damascus. That was a fact. Which to Paul also meant the fact that He was the risen Jesus of Nazareth, and therefor both Lord and Christ. So when Paul heard Jesus speaking to him, how did he respond? With perfect surrender. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Paul was trembling because he had done Christ and Christians grievous wrong, and was expecting to receive his just deserts. He was astonished that Jesus of Nazareth would even approach him and offer grace and mercy to him. But his total surrender was in his words (which acknowledged the Lordship of Christ). Paul was literally blinded by the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, and later on he would receive back his sight.

So faith is primarily based on FACTS, and the hope is in the promise of eternal life and perfection with Christ. The Gospel consists of facts: Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and rose again for our justification according to the Scriptures. But unless we repent on believe this, we cannot be saved

Yes FACTS not ACTS

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is the truth?

man will never be acceptable to God
man can’t accept God. They have no capacity

god made man acceptable but only through his sons death, through justification is he set free. And that was the reason he came. So that as many as receive him, to them he gave the right or power to become children of Godwe do not accept him, we recieve him, because he who knew no sin was made sin so we could be made the righteousness of Christ,

 

[GraceAndTruth]

It is Jesus who accepts you.
Romans 15:7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

Ephesians 1:3-6 “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will – to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.”​

John 6:37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. ​

 

[CS1]

What is the truth?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the truth the only truth.

 

[throughfaith]

We believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement Jesus secured for our salvation.. Thats 2 things we must do to be apart of the New Covenant..

Does anyone think a person can reject the Word of God and disbelieve that the atonement of Jesus saves and still have eternity with God? I don't..

You have to be sealed by the Holy Spirit to be glorified. After believing we recieve .

 

[soggykitten]

On the first day of the week, when Peter and the disciple Jesus loved visited his tomb, they found that Jesus was not there.

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you .John 20:19

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Do you know why Thomas wasn't with the other disciples when Jesus came?
If you do then you should know why he wasn't there. And back in Jerusalem he met back up with the other disciples.

The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord.

At which time Thomas made the comment that lead to the reason that the scripture you quoted was made.

But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. .John 20:26

Of course, Thomas went to Galilee to wait on Jesus after the crucifixion, which you can click on the question above which has a token for those went to Galilee and found what Thomas did. But there is a spoiler below with the reason why they when to Galilee.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:29

Spoiler: Blessed is he that take part in the first ressurrection

Mark 16:5-7
5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

For clarification. None of these verses are intended to support any part of the Tulip teaching or doctrine.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.



John 15
The Vine and the Branches
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

The World Hates the Disciples
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’[b] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’[c]

The Work of the Holy Spirit
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

Footnotes

1. John 15:2 The Greek for he prunes also means he cleans.
2. John 15:20 John 13:16
3. John 15:25 Psalms 35:19; 69:4