Salvation is for the Whole World

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Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Jesus said, and I'm probably paraphrasing, "I stand at the door and knock. Anyone that opens to Me, I will come in and sup with him." I suppose that there are those that consider opening the door, when you hear Jesus knocking, as a work?
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Jesus said, and I'm probably paraphrasing, "I stand at the door and knock. Anyone that opens to Me, I will come in and sup with him." I suppose that there are those that consider opening the door, when you hear Jesus knocking, as a work?
Yes, I believe that you paraphrased incorrectly. Here is the exact verse, at least according to the KJV.
The key to it is the "hear my voice". to be able to hear Christ's voice (in the Bible) is the prerequisite. To truly hear, is to hear spiritually with spiritual ears, not human ears. Spiritual hearing accompanies being born-again which is from becoming saved. Only they have it and can hear.

[Rev 3:20 KJV] 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Jhn 8:43 KJV] 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Yes, I believe that you paraphrased incorrectly. Here is the exact verse, at least according to the KJV.
The key to it is the "hear my voice". to be able to hear Christ's voice (in the Bible) is the prerequisite. To truly hear, is to hear spiritually with spiritual ears, not human ears. Spiritual hearing accompanies being born-again which is from becoming saved. Only they have it and can hear.

[Rev 3:20 KJV] 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

[Jhn 8:43 KJV] 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
You have to go around "any man" to get to "hear my voice without some of man, don't you think? Have you noticed the plural conjugation of "hear"? What's Jesus saying? "If any hear my voice..." or "If (any singular) man hears my voice..."? What does the KJV say?
 

Cameron143

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Jesus said, and I'm probably paraphrasing, "I stand at the door and knock. Anyone that opens to Me, I will come in and sup with him." I suppose that there are those that consider opening the door, when you hear Jesus knocking, as a work?
That verse actually is about fellowship and not salvation. If you hear my voice implies they are sheep.
 

rogerg

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You have to go around "any man" to get to "hear my voice without some of man, don't you think? Have you noticed the plural conjugation of "hear"? What's Jesus saying? "If any hear my voice..." or "If (any singular) man hears my voice..."? What does the KJV say?
No, the only "any man" are those who will hear and respond are limited to those who can hear, not everyone.

The "any man" is defined as:

tis
  1. a certain, a certain one
  2. some, some time, a while
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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No, the only "any man" are those who will hear and respond are limited to those who can hear, not everyone.

The "any man" is defined as:

tis
  1. a certain, a certain one
  2. some, some time, a while
or "whomsoever"

Strong's Greek: 5100
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
any, anything, whomsoever
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object -- a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, - thing, -what), (+ that no-)thing, what(-soever), X wherewith, whom(-soever), whose(-soever).
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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That verse actually is about fellowship and not salvation. If you hear my voice implies they are sheep.
He is the door of his sheep, and I seriously doubt Jesus is talking about knocking on Himself here.
 

Cameron143

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He is the door of his sheep, and I seriously doubt Jesus is talking about knocking on Himself here.
Not every door is a reference to Jesus. The door here is the door to our hearts. Supping is talking about meeting our desires. It is part of His ministry as the good Shepherd. See Psalm 23.
 

rogerg

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or "whomsoever"

Strong's Greek: 5100
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
any, anything, whomsoever
An enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object -- a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, - thing, -what), (+ that no-)thing, what(-soever), X wherewith, whom(-soever), whose(-soever).
You have your source, I have mine. Nevertheless, the important point is who are those who can hear and they are only those born again.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Not every door is a reference to Jesus. The door here is the door to our hearts. Supping is talking about meeting our desires. It is part of His ministry as the good Shepherd. See Psalm 23.
You have your source, I have mine. Nevertheless, the important point is who are those who can hear and they are only those born again.
Calvinists seem all so very nice tho...

ε. ἑστηκώς ἐπί τήν θύραν καί κρούων is said of Christ seeking entrance into souls, and they who comply with his entreaty are said ἀνοίγειν τήν θύραν, Revelation 3:20.
I can't read Greek here without helps but, I'mna bet it says "Behold I stand at the door and knock," and "that open the door" respectively.

I would say it as only those that hear are born again, and not so much that those that don't are incapable of listening.
 

Cameron143

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Calvinists seem all so very nice tho...

ε. ἑστηκώς ἐπί τήν θύραν καί κρούων is said of Christ seeking entrance into souls, and they who comply with his entreaty are said ἀνοίγειν τήν θύραν, Revelation 3:20.
I can't read Greek here without helps but, I'mna bet it says "Behold I stand at the door and knock," and "that open the door" respectively.

I would say it as those that hear are born again.
It's not about salvation period. Nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism. It's about fellowship.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Those that have ears, let him hear. That is,
It's not about salvation period. Nothing to do with Calvinism or Arminianism. It's about fellowship.
I know you said that. I just didn't hear it :sneaky:
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Well, I have a habit of not listening to the voice of strangers. :)
You probably should have. I could have been from the lottery commission to give you a million dollar
check but now you won't get it because you didn't want to listen. Guess what, I am from the
lottery commission, and no check for you, young lady.
 

notmyown

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May 26, 2016
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1 John 2:2 KJV
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. (Jn 17:9)

i find this perplexing, because if your interpretation is true, we have the Lord Jesus dying for "the world", enduring the wrath of God for them, paying the penalty due them, but He won't even pray for them??

perhaps we ought to look at the numerous ways the Apostle John uses the word world?