Salvation is Not Permanent

[trofimus]

Being born again is as simple as having the Holy Spirit in you. He can leave as easily as He came in.

What Scriptures do you base this on?

But for some reason Him doing that seems to the rock that God can't lift. Which you know is not true. Actually, your argument is that he won't do that. But you are presenting it like he can't do that.

As God cannot lie, in the same way He cannot change His eternal decrees.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified...

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
R 8

 

[PHart]

Let's go with water, if Christ gives us water and we never thirst again, can we change our minds and just be thirsty again anyway?

What you can do is show a willful, contemptuous unbelief for the Christ who gives you the spring of living water inside of you and drink from your own well:

"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water." (Jeremiah 2:13 NIV)

 

[PHart]

What Scriptures do you base this on?

None in particular. But if I had to pick one....

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, by you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going." (John 3:8 NIV)

We all know and agree that the Holy Spirit came into us when we believed. It is man that has invented this doctrine that for some reason the Holy Spirit is now no longer able to move freely about once He goes into a person.

As God cannot lie, in the same way He cannot change His eternal decrees.

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified...

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
R 8

All this is true. What the church does not understand is that the promises are conditioned on continued believing. Only those who continue to believe will be carried through to glorification. Only those who continue to believe have the sure promise of nothing being able to rip them away from the love of God.

The resistance that I encounter is one of two things:

1) people don't believe that continued believing is the condition for salvation because they erroneously believe that would make salvation by your works (how believing got on the side of the works of the law is beyond me, but that is what many now believe in the church).

2) the true believer can never stop believing and so he will always be saved. Well, that's great if you are sure you personally can not ever stop believing. But ultimately, you and you alone will know that when you get to that place, and you probably will. It's not right to project our own surety that we will never stop believing onto other people. The day will come when you will realize it's not right to do that.

 

[PHart]

"he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him." Heb 5:9

Yes, look...."for all who obey him". He is the source of eternal salvation for those who obey him That's not a works salvation. The author explains in chapter 6 how it is your work, and your continuing work that confirms that you have faith and are persevering in that faith and are, therefore, saved:

"...dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case--things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work adn the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience (the perseverance of faith) inherit what has been promised." (Hebrews 6:9-12 NIV)

"Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory." (2Tm 2:10)

Keep believing and the eternal glory is all yours. If you're hearing 'works salvation' in that, then read this verse where 'believing/trusting' is contrasted with works, and is not among the works of the damnable works gospel:

"...to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5 NIV)

See? Believing /trusting in Christ is NOT a work of the damnable works gospel. In fact, it is in direct contrast to works, and is the very thing you must do to be justified, and continue to do to be saved. Believing is not earning your salvation. Believing is the requirement for being saved.

"inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you" 1Pt 1:4

That's right, the inheritance is not what can spoil, or perish or fade. The question is, are you going to continue in the power of God through faith and inherit the inheritance that can never perish, spoil, or fade:

"...into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5 NIV)

 

[Innerfire89]

What you can do is show a willful, contemptuous unbelief for the Christ who gives you the spring of living water inside of you and drink from your own well:

"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water." (Jeremiah 2:13 NIV)

Why would one drink from their own well if they have drank the water that Christ gives that causes one to never thrust again? An important thing to note is the okd testament Jews did not have the indwelling of the Spirit.

And why would such an unbelief be present in one who has belief being worked into them by God who is in him? Is there no change in someone who is born again?

Look, we're talking about the God living in us, working to change us. If God is in us and wants us to preserve, then it is done! Nothing is greater than God, there's no competion between God and the lies of Satan, God already won! Just think about it. Think about who God is who inside His elect.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

After he gets the Lasagna in the future when he redeems the ticket, no he can not lose it. Until then, he has a foretaste of the Lasagna, and a ticket in his possession that guarantees he will get the full meal when the ticket is presented at the great supper. If he loses the ticket he no get full meal.

Once you believe In the WORD of GOD,GOD comes In and the just spirit Is made perfect[/B],right?And sealed,right?

And we are GOD’s workmanship created IN CHRIST unto good works and once a person gets reborn they will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure In other words they will want to be like CHRIST.