Sanctification of both body and spirit

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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#1
There's a doctrine about, especially among those who teach extreme forms of grace, that says once we're born again our spirit is perfected in the image of Christ and any sins we commit aren't committed by us, that is, by our spirit, but by the flesh. Therefore, a person can avoid any responsibility for sin by simply shifting the blame to the flesh.

But I came across an interesting verse I've never noticed before—2 Corinthians 7:1: "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

We can clearly see from this that sanctification isn't merely bringing our flesh into conformity with our spirit, but by bringing both body and spirit into conformity with Christ.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
670
401
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#2
We know the Bible does not contradict itself and that the spirit within is incorruptible 1Pe 1:23

Reading the context …going back to 2Co 6:11 -18 will give a better understanding of 7:1


2 Cor 7:1 These therefore having promises beloved we should cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the respect of God…. (GNT – Nestel)

To put this in a more literal sense.

These therefore having promises → that I just spoke of in (2Co 6:17& 18) beloved, we should cleanse (stay clear) ourselves, away from every defilement (which I just spoke of throughout chapter 6) ….perfecting holiness in the reverence of God.
(the mention of chapter 6 is for reference)

Remember Paul through revelation is speaking to the body of Christ, not individuals as mentioned in 6:16….. Individuals in the body of Christ throughout the epistles are referred to as the tabernacle. When temple is used…. it is in the plural and refers to all those in the body of Christ.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,296
6,589
113
#3
Sanctification comes through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

IMO, believers who slip and sin (sin of omission) after salvation are not "bound in chains" by that sin. Salvation frees us from the chains of sin which lead to death. Both spiritual and physical. No human being is perfect. Not while still in the flesh. Even the Apostle Paul taught this.

Spiritual perfection will come with the return of Jesus when we are changed from these physical bodies into our new, perfect, celestial bodies. Celestial bodies are spirits. The very needed reason for such a change is that God is a Spirit, and to worship Him, we must do so in spirit and truth.

(my thoughts)
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,623
3,199
113
#4
We know the Bible does not contradict itself and that the spirit within is incorruptible 1Pe 1:23

Reading the context …going back to 2Co 6:11 -18 will give a better understanding of 7:1


2 Cor 7:1 These therefore having promises beloved we should cleanse ourselves from every defilement of flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the respect of God…. (GNT – Nestel)

To put this in a more literal sense.

These therefore having promises → that I just spoke of in (2Co 6:17& 18) beloved, we should cleanse (stay clear) ourselves, away from every defilement (which I just spoke of throughout chapter 6) ….perfecting holiness in the reverence of God.
(the mention of chapter 6 is for reference)

Remember Paul through revelation is speaking to the body of Christ, not individuals as mentioned in 6:16….. Individuals in the body of Christ throughout the epistles are referred to as the tabernacle. When temple is used…. it is in the plural and refers to all those in the body of Christ.
Thanks for your post but unfortunately I can't tell what your point is.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#5
The word flesh, when used in various bible translations, can mean soul or physical body. This has caused much misunderstanding. Our being consists of spirit, soul, and body.
I believe scripture says that a born-again spirit cannot sin, so the sin has to come from somewhere. And since I believe that the word shows that the body is basically a machine, sin must come from the soul.
I believe that being born-again spiritually is an instant, one-time event, whereas cleaning up the soul, aka, sanctification, is a process.
"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart" - Hebrews 4:12 BSB
"now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls." - 1 Peter 1:9 BSB
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 KJV
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,623
3,199
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#6
The word flesh, when used in various bible translations, can mean soul or physical body. This has caused much misunderstanding. Our being consists of spirit, soul, and body.
I believe scripture says that a born-again spirit cannot sin, so the sin has to come from somewhere. And since I believe that the word shows that the body is basically a machine, sin must come from the soul.
I believe that being born-again spiritually is an instant, one-time event, whereas cleaning up the soul, aka, sanctification, is a process.
"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart" - Hebrews 4:12 BSB
"now that you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls." - 1 Peter 1:9 BSB
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9 KJV
If a born-again person's spirit can't sin, what's your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 7:1? It says we must "cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit." It doesn't say our spirit has already been perfected. Are you saying it doesn't mean what it appears to mean?

I really hope this thread can stay focused and not get off in the weeds.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#7
1 Peter 1:23 and 2 Corinthians 7:1 do not contradict each other.
I believe Peter is stating that the born-again spirit cannot die, death being a result of sin.
Wounds of the spirit, caused by rejection, injustice, etc., need to be cleansed to heal properly. This is done through forgiveness.
I believe that sin gives the enemy access to a person. If a born-again spirit can sin, then the enemy has access to it. I do not believe this is possible. It is the soul and the body that the enemy has access to, and it is from these 2 that I have received deliverance from oppression.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#8
But I don't know everything.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,623
3,199
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#9
1 Peter 1:23 and 2 Corinthians 7:1 do not contradict each other.
I believe Peter is stating that the born-again spirit cannot die, death being a result of sin.
Wounds of the spirit, caused by rejection, injustice, etc., need to be cleansed to heal properly. This is done through forgiveness.
I believe that sin gives the enemy access to a person. If a born-again spirit can sin, then the enemy has access to it. I do not believe this is possible. It is the soul and the body that the enemy has access to, and it is from these 2 that I have received deliverance from oppression.
Thanks.

1 Peter 1:23 says: "having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible." To me, the whole question becomes: What exactly is the nature of being "born again?"

I've been thinking a lot lately about patient endurance. It occurs to me that we're instructed many times in the scripture to have it. What are we supposed to be waiting for? We wait patiently for the day when mortality will put on immortality; on that day we'll be changed. We haven't yet been changed in any deeply fundamental way. We have hope for that day because He lives in us. This motivates us to be as much like Him as possible, and to cast off those things which defile.

I don't know everything either, no one does.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
670
401
63
#10
Thanks for your post but unfortunately I can't tell what your point is.
This may not surprise you .....but I can't either...where the heck was I going with that.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,886
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#11
There's a doctrine about, especially among those who teach extreme forms of grace, that says once we're born again our spirit is perfected in the image of Christ and any sins we commit aren't committed by us, that is, by our spirit, but by the flesh. Therefore, a person can avoid any responsibility for sin by simply shifting the blame to the flesh.

But I came across an interesting verse I've never noticed before—2 Corinthians 7:1: "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

We can clearly see from this that sanctification isn't merely bringing our flesh into conformity with our spirit, but by bringing both body and spirit into conformity with Christ.
yeah we are born but then we have to follow the spirit and let the flesh die

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not just receiving the spirit we have to then follow after the spirit because it is contrary to our sinful flesh

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we keep walking in the works of the sinful flesh we’re not gonna make it home . but if we turn and follow the spirit found in the gospel he will bring us to a point of true repentance and leave those works of slavery to the flesh behind and will start bearing the fruits of the gospel

we have to follow the spirit of Christ not just say we’re saved and born again our actions tell the truth of that part
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#12
Thanks.

1 Peter 1:23 says: "having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible." To me, the whole question becomes: What exactly is the nature of being "born again?"

I've been thinking a lot lately about patient endurance. It occurs to me that we're instructed many times in the scripture to have it. What are we supposed to be waiting for? We wait patiently for the day when mortality will put on immortality; on that day we'll be changed. We haven't yet been changed in any deeply fundamental way. We have hope for that day because He lives in us. This motivates us to be as much like Him as possible, and to cast off those things which defile.

I don't know everything either, no one does.
We are made in God's image, and who can describe Him? Or what He is doing in us? Of one thing I am sure...He is awesome beyond our comprehension! And yet He loves us like He does! My soul cries, "Hallelujah!"
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,886
5,172
113
#13
We are made in God's image, and who can describe Him? Or what He is doing in us? Of one thing I am sure...He is awesome beyond our comprehension! And yet He loves us like He does! My soul cries, "Hallelujah!"
look at Jesus in the gospel and you’ll see him

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus came so we can know God in truth

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the reason we need to believe the gospel is because that’s the only way to know the true God. There’s a reason we have to believe the gospel it is God revealing himself in plain sight so that all who believe will be saved
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#14
I'll never forget the day I met my Father...it was the best day of my life!
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
768
203
43
England
www.nblc.church
#15
If a born-again person's spirit can't sin, what's your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 7:1? It says we must "cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit." It doesn't say our spirit has already been perfected. Are you saying it doesn't mean what it appears to mean?

I really hope this thread can stay focused and not get off in the weeds.
Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Open your hearts to us: we wronged no man, we corrupted no man, we took advantage of no man. 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 NASB

ταυτας ουν εχοντες τας επαγγελιας αγαπητοι καθαρισωμεν εαυτους απο παντος μολυσμου σαρκος και πνευματος επιτελουντες αγιωσυνην εν φοβω θεου χωρησατε ημας. ουδενα ηδικησαμεν ουδενα εφθειραμεν ουδενα επλεονεκτησαμεν. 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 Textus Receptus

The terms: Flesh & spirit

flesh and spirit

σαρκος και πνευματος

σαρκος from the root sarx (transliteration) σάρξ (greek) by metonymy "outward and seeming" implying seeming conduct derived from an effect.

πνευματος from the root pnoe (transliteration) πνοή (greeK) signifying the breath of life or the wind that blows where it wills.

And the verse that explains 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 is:

I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 2 Corinthians 7:9

In short it speaks about the apostolic ministry and the authority to bring suffering to other believers by the will of God for the sake of the believer. Chapter 6 and chapter 8 give the entire context.

So in your inferred meaning or question - that refers to the sin that Paul condemned in Corinth which led to a handing of a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that His spirit might be saved until the day of Christ. Hence the first Corinthian letter referred to in this letter.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,886
5,172
113
#16
Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Open your hearts to us: we wronged no man, we corrupted no man, we took advantage of no man. 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 NASB

ταυτας ουν εχοντες τας επαγγελιας αγαπητοι καθαρισωμεν εαυτους απο παντος μολυσμου σαρκος και πνευματος επιτελουντες αγιωσυνην εν φοβω θεου χωρησατε ημας. ουδενα ηδικησαμεν ουδενα εφθειραμεν ουδενα επλεονεκτησαμεν. 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 Textus Receptus

The terms: Flesh & spirit

flesh and spirit

σαρκος και πνευματος

σαρκος from the root sarx (transliteration) σάρξ (greek) by metonymy "outward and seeming" implying seeming conduct derived from an effect.

πνευματος from the root pnoe (transliteration) πνοή (greeK) signifying the breath of life or the wind that blows where it wills.

And the verse that explains 2 Corinthians 7:1-2 is:

I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 2 Corinthians 7:9

In short it speaks about the apostolic ministry and the authority to bring suffering to other believers by the will of God for the sake of the believer. Chapter 6 and chapter 8 give the entire context.

So in your inferred meaning or question - that refers to the sin that Paul condemned in Corinth which led to a handing of a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that His spirit might be saved until the day of Christ. Hence the first Corinthian letter referred to in this letter.
“For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,615
13,019
113
#17
The word flesh, when used in various bible translations, can mean soul or physical body.
Not "soul" but the indwelling Adamic "sin nature", also called "the flesh" or "the old man". The sin nature is not eradicated automatically when a person is born again. But the spirit is "quickened" (brought to life) and we are given a new heart, a new spirit, and a new nature.

But the power of "the flesh" was destroyed at the cross, and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit (within our spirits) is greater than the power of the sin nature. Therefore Paul says that "sin shall not have dominion over you". Which means that every Christian can live a holy and righteous life by the power of the Spirit.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
768
203
43
England
www.nblc.church
#18
Not "soul" but the indwelling Adamic "sin nature", also called "the flesh" or "the old man". The sin nature is not eradicated automatically when a person is born again. But the spirit is "quickened" (brought to life) and we are given a new heart, a new spirit, and a new nature.

But the power of "the flesh" was destroyed at the cross, and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit (within our spirits) is greater than the power of the sin nature. Therefore Paul says that "sin shall not have dominion over you". Which means that every Christian can live a holy and righteous life by the power of the Spirit.

Spirit, Soul and Body - Lexical

Pneuma (πνοὴν) the spirit, refers to breath. This word from 1 Thessalonians 5:23 derives from the root word pnoe (πνοή), and signifies the breath of life. This same word is used in the Septuagint (the Greek Old Testament) and is the word πνοὴν in Genesis 2:7. (Above).

Psuche (ψυχή), the soul, or life, is translated heart in Ephesians (6:6). It is the same Greek word used in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 for the soul. It denotes the seat of the personality as well as the power of volition (choosing). It is the individual.

Soma (σωμα) is the physical body. The Greek word for body in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is different to the word dust in Genesis 2:7. This is because Genesis is dealing with the original material from which the body was formed. Whereas Thessalonians is a conception of the body as a living biological entity after God breathed into the form of man, the breath of life.

The lexical definitions only predicate to rational domains. They do not explain spiritual meanings. But the greek sarx (σάρξ) does because it alludes to the old man and the character of flesh that is born of flesh. I think that @Oblio understands that precept very well.

The point about the passage that was posted by @ResidentAlien is that the conjugated verb σαρκος is derived from sarx (σάρξ) and not Soma (σωμα). So the allusion is to conduct (i.e. sleeping with ones' father's wife) and not simply lust of the body. It takes more than lust to have a sexual relationship with your father's wife - even when she is not your own mother. Apart from that Paul rebuked the entire church because they were boasting in it. Conduct - meaning an act of the physical body arising out of a deep and profound disrespect of God who made the man to cleave to his wife and paid for the sin of the world through his Son.

The whole thing is derived linguistically and therefore spiritually from Genesis 2:7.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 is a more broader expression of Paul's attitude - having the same meaning.

Genesis 2:7 is a narrative of how the body came into existence as a biological entity, as well as an explanation of the original material used. Whereas, 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is a concern for the living body - in this instant - it is a concern for believers alive in their own bodies.

So to go to John John 3:6 which is included in the conversation between the Lord and Nicodemus - we can speak of that which is born of the flesh, is flesh and we can say, there are two references to the word flesh in verse six. The first usage (v6 i) is σαρκος, which comes from the root word sarx (σάρξ). The second usage (v6 ii) is the root σάρξ itself. Although the word sarx (σάρξ) is used to denote the physical body, it is also used morphologically (v6 i) to denote the likeness of flesh. This is the first usage here and semantically carries not only implication of the substance or physiology of the body (v6 ii) but the very nature of a man (v6 i) (your old man reference). So that a literal translation of this verse would be that which is of fleshy Adam is flesh after Adam's flesh.

Just my thoughts you understand. But I don't think your explanation contradicts @Oblio - it simply implies an error on his part.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,886
5,172
113
#20
The corrupted soul.
Amen

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man is a living soul a living spirit in a body made of flesh. If the flesh is corrupted it corrupts the soul which is spirit and body together as one the flesh was corrupted which corrupted the whole man