Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

[Wansvic]

If this be correct, Peter's description defies his prescription, unless you accept that consistent with other scripture and the key gospel message that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, it is the repenting in Jesus' name that is saves, and baptism the commandment given once one has so been saved.

You're right, it's not that difficult, but like the Judaisers in Paul's day, your insistence to make it harder than it is perverts the gospel message into a damnable heresy. Repent therefore.

I find it interesting when people accept that repentance is essential, yet reject the other essential elements of the NT rebirth.

Peter said those who already believe in Jesus must AFTERWARD, Repent AND be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost as well

Repentance:
It is written, unless you repent you will likewise perish. (Luke 13:3, 5)

Water baptism: for remission of sin:
It is written, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16)

Holy Ghost:
It is written, Those who have not received the Holy Spirit should ask to receive. (Luke 11:13)
It is written: if you have not the Holy Spirit you are not His. (Rom. 8:9)

It is written "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:8-9

 

[Wansvic]

It is quite amazing how people will double down in their false beliefs in the face of all the Scriptures. The only explanation is the absence of Christian humility, in order to abandon all false beliefs and doctrines.

Peter said those who already believe in Jesus must AFTERWARD, Repent AND be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost as well

Repentance:
It is written, unless you repent you will likewise perish. (Luke 13:3, 5)

Water baptism: for remission of sin:
It is written, he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16)

Holy Ghost:
It is written, Those who have not received the Holy Spirit should ask to receive. (Luke 11:13)
It is written: if you have not the Holy Spirit you are not His. (Rom. 8:9)

It is written "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:8-9

 

[Wansvic]

That is something I must say about my pastor. He will find a place to baptize, even if it's a swimming pool. If one or two people ask, they have the water running for the Sunday morning service. But my pastor isn't a young pastor, perhaps the difference? Though I have seen young people being baptized near the ocean or lakes on Facebook lately.

Saw where 12,000 recently baptized in California, and in France as well.

I've come to believe there's a significant restoration of what Jesus and His apostles taught concerning water baptism. Jude 3 concerning the common salvation comes to mind:

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine:


"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship,..." Acts 2:38-42

 

[Wansvic]

Yeah because there’s not a scripture for it because God didn’t want us to get fixated on it.

It's all there in the word. God promised those willing to seek will find.

"My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures
Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

 

[Lamar]

In that household, and for that time, and to convince the Jewish believers that Gentiles were being added to the Church, it was God who felt it NECESSARY to give the Jewish believers direct evidence. That is exactly what the record shows, so read it very carefully: And they of the circumcision [Jewish believers] which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:45-47)

So it is all there in the Bible, but do you even read what is written and understand why it is written? Why don't you ABANDON your false doctrine, instead of trying to double down?

It is you who needs to "read it very carefully".

In the 3 verses that you present as a prooftext there is no mention that the gentiles had received the remission of sins nor is it implied.

You are simply injecting human conjecture to assume that their speaking in tongues meant that God bypassed the need for baptism for the remission of sins. This is not part of the verbiage being presented. These verses are strictly descriptive in nature, any high school English composition student can see this. You could see it too if you would simply read it without your faith alone blinders.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

It is you who needs to "read it very carefully".

In the 3 verses that you present as a prooftext there is no mention that the gentiles had received the remission of sins nor is it implied.

You are simply injecting human conjecture to assume that their speaking in tongues meant that God bypassed the need for baptism for the remission of sins. This is not part of the verbiage being presented. These verses are strictly descriptive in nature, any high school English composition student can see this. You could see it too if you would simply read it without your faith alone blinders.

No, seriously, its faith alone. Baptism does not save. Important, yes, but does not save. If I was saved at church Sunday morning and died before the baptismal service that night, I'm going to heaven. Period.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: Saul was not saved on the road to Damascus?

Three Things Happened On The Road...

Amen.

 

[Lamar]

No, seriously, its faith alone.

No, seriously, its not faith alone.
James 2:24 "You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone."

Baptism does not save.

It most certainly does.

1st Peter 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

If I was saved at church Sunday morning and died before the baptismal service that night, I'm going to heaven. Period.

Personal claims of salvation have no bearing on the Word of God. But this does.

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

If or what about scenarios are the games of Sadducees. Matthew 22:27-30

James, Peter and Jesus trump your theology of conjecture.

If baptism was not needed for the remission of sins then there would be no need for such precise verbiage as these and others verses.

 

[Wansvic]

The Problem with your opinion here is the text doesn't say that:

Acts 9:10-17

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and to him the Lord said in a vision, “Ananias.”

And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”

11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”

13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

17 And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.


Paul, known as Saul, was praying and saw Ananias coming to him in a vision.

Jesus said Paul was a Chosen Vessel." Therefore, Jesus saved him. On the Road to Damascus. Paul's very testimony to Kings and rulers was the Meeting on the road to Damascus. Many times read in Acts, Paul called the very experience His testimony of salvation.

What @Beckworth stated is accurate.
Jesus told Paul to go into the city and he would be told what he must do.
"And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." (Acts 9:6)


"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, HATH SENT ME that thou mightest receive thy sight AND be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."
Acts 9:17-18


Paul's account:
"But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me." (Acts 26:16-18) A reference to the Acts 2 account.



Paul conversion required the same elements presented to the Jews, (Acts 2) Samaritans, (Acts 8) and Gentiles. (Acts 10) Paul then carried the same message. Paul was still preaching the same message 20+ years later as detailed specifically regarding the 12 individuals in Ephesus. (Acts 19:1-7)

 

[Wansvic]

Read what Peter said. "They have received the Holy Spirit". Are you arguing that an unbeliever can receive the Holy Spirit? Or just that Peter was wrong about them receiving the Holy Spirit, and he therefore shouldn't have baptised them? (If so, perhaps he was also wrong about the whole circumcision debate, and we should add this to church membership requirements?)

In addition to being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, believers must also repent and be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. This truth is revealed in all detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

 

[Wansvic]

To say "Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus." is not true since no one knows they all speculate. Lol to think when Christ just shows up and he finds out Christ is alive and what just walked off? See we don't know. So your not right.

Saul/Paul was not saved at the moment Jesus appeared to him on the road. However, he was after placing his truth in Jesus as evidenced by his obedience when told what to do. Scripture reveals all those living in the NT must believe, repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receive the Holy Ghost.

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." Ps. (119:160)

 

[Wansvic]

It is you who needs to "read it very carefully".

In the 3 verses that you present as a prooftext there is no mention that the gentiles had received the remission of sins nor is it implied.

You are simply injecting human conjecture to assume that their speaking in tongues meant that God bypassed the need for baptism for the remission of sins. This is not part of the verbiage being presented. These verses are strictly descriptive in nature, any high school English composition student can see this. You could see it too if you would simply read it without your faith alone blinders.

Also, take a close look at what Peter said in verse 43. It is a reference to water baptism. Note the connection between the name and receiving remission of sins.

Acts 10:43
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Acts 10:47-48
"Can any man forbid water,...he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..." Remember it was Peter who said be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin...

 

[Wansvic]

No, seriously, its faith alone. Baptism does not save. Important, yes, but does not save. If I was saved at church Sunday morning and died before the baptismal service that night, I'm going to heaven. Period.

Just keep in mind what Jesus actually said:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." John 12:48-50

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Just keep in mind what Jesus actually said:

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." John 12:48-50

I want to start by saying that I have appreciated your posts all the years I have been here. There are some here I totally disagree with on certain subjects, but we find sound agreement on other subjects.

I believe baptism is serious, I believe believers should be baptized. I believe it is an outward sign of what has happened inwardly. We identify with Christ in baptism. So I have never said it isn't important. But it does not save. It is the blood of Christ that saves. We say we are not saved by works, but then say we must be baptized to be saved. The Bible doesn't say that. It's the blood that saves, plus nothing.

 

[Niki7]

we have had this washing machine salvation broadcasted here by wansvic for years now. anyone see their sins go down the drain yet?

on the other hand, how many can attest to believing in all that Christ has accomplished by his shed blood as the actual atonement for sin?

people who insist that you must be baptized or you are not saved have created a doctrine that is not in scripture and have detracted from the perfection in God's plan for our salvation

This, is not a small thing. This is a dangerous doctrine that is not inspired by the Holy Spirit and actually involves people in their own salvation, rather than Christ alone. If being baptized is the final act to ensure salvation, then Christ has not accomplished our salvation; rather we have finalized that salvation and we are telling Him to move over.

Yes, baptism is a part of believing in Jesus, and we should be baptized as a confession of our faith .BUT it does not save and is not required for salvation.

Further, Wansvic is also Oneness Pentecostal....so even if you are baptized, you had better get the names right when you are baptized or you will have to get yourself redunked. If it isn't Jesus only, if someone has dared to mention the Trinity when you were baptized, then get yourself to the nearest baptismal service and demand Jesus Only salvation.

 

[Wansvic]

I want to start by saying that I have appreciated your posts all the years I have been here. There are some here I totally disagree with on certain subjects, but we find sound agreement on other subjects.

I believe baptism is serious, I believe believers should be baptized. I believe it is an outward sign of what has happened inwardly. We identify with Christ in baptism. So I have never said it isn't important. But it does not save. It is the blood of Christ that saves. We say we are not saved by works, but then say we must be baptized to be saved. The Bible doesn't say that. It's the blood that saves, plus nothing.

We agree. It is the blood of Jesus that saves. However, not all will receive what Jesus died to provide. Belief in Jesus and His sacrifice is essential. However, obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus is when the believer's sins are remitted. This is by God's design as revealed in scripture.

Paul's letter to the Romans indicates many did not understand what actually occurred in the spiritual realm when they believed and obeyed the command. This record should be an eye opener for many today. Paul stated it was in baptism that individuals were actually buried with Jesus into His death. He also mentions that sins are destroyed in baptism. This lines up with exactly what Peter said, "be baptized EVERYONE of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins. Paul's includes went on to say something of great importance. that those who have been buried in the likeness of Jesus' death will be in the likeness of His resurrection.


"God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:3-6

 

[Lamar]

I believe baptism is serious

How serious? Naaman washing in the Jordan seven times serious?

should be baptized

Should??? Like the sons of Aaron should not use unauthorized fire?

I have never said it isn't important

Okay so how important is it? As important as putting the blood on the door post important?

We say we are not saved by works

You may say we are not saved by works but God states : "You see that a person is declared righteous because of actions and not because of faith alone." James 2:24

It is obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that saves, plus nothing.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

How serious? Naaman washing in the Jordan seven times serious?

Should??? Like the sons of Aaron should not use unauthorized fire?

Okay so how important is it? As important as putting the blood on the door post important?

You may say we are not saved by works but God states : "You see that a person is declared righteous because of actions and not because of faith alone." James 2:24

It is obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that saves, plus nothing.

Not if you are adding works. Works don't save, water doesn't save, it is the blood that saves. Same as the OT, blood had to be shed for the remission of sins.

 

[Lamar]

blood had to be shed for the remission of sins.

Correct.
And was the act of shedding the blood a necessary work of the priest or not? Let me guess...it was just important.

Obeying God is not adding works. It is an act of submission.

Labeling obedience to the Word of God as works is rebellion.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Correct.
And was the act of shedding the blood a necessary work of the priest or not? Let me guess...it was just important.

Obeying God is not adding works. It is an act of submission.

Labeling obedience to the Word of God as works is rebellion.

NO it is not!! Faith alone! Water doesn't save.Baptism doesn't save. The shed blood of Christ saves. Baptism is a sign, not salvation.