Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

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Beckworth

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May 15, 2019
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You got the wrong woman in mind. This is not the woman who was to be stoned. Jesus clearly meant SALVATION.
You got the wrong woman in mind. This is not the woman who was to be stoned. Jesus clearly meant SALVATION.
Here’s the account in Luke 7.

A Sinful Woman Forgiven
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”
So he said, “Teacher, say it.”
41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the onewhom he forgave more.”
And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”
Here’s the account in Luke 7.

A Sinful Woman Forgiven
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”
So he said, “Teacher, say it.”
41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the onewhom he forgave more.”
And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”


Galatians 3:7-9​
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.​
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
670
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My sins are removed as far as the east is from the west by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ

if I sin, I ask for forgiveness.

since scripture is plain that all our righteousness is as filthy rags, nothing I can do adds to what Christ has already accomplished

On the cross, He said, 'It is finished' and bowed His head and died. But we know He rose from the dead and those who believe in Him will have eternal life. Now there is more to it than that, but that is how we begin our new life as a follower of Jesus.

I'm not arguing anything. People who believe in baptismal regeneration, as it seems you and several others here do, are the ones who deny salvation through Christ alone and must add to scripture. My flesh is not filthy, nor my soul or spirit.

I am redeemed by the blood of the Lamb and God sees me as righteous in His Son.


For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. II Corinthians 5:21

But if we should walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. I John 1:7
Oh, did I misunderstand your comment “Borax”. Isn’t that something used in physical washing? If you believe what Peter said about it not being a “bath” , just say so and I will apologize.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
670
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The AGENT in our salvation is the Holy Spirit. Water is just a symbol of that.
I’m sorry, but Peter doesn’t teach that in 1 Peter 3:21. He doesn’t talk about anything saving us—or them , but water. No mention of the Spirit at all. You know, for water to be a “symbol” of Holy Spirit baptism, don’t you think it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture? You can’t just MAKE UP a meaning and assign it to a verse when that verse doesn’t even mention it.
 
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Niki7

Guest
Oh, did I misunderstand your comment “Borax”. Isn’t that something used in physical washing? If you believe what Peter said about it not being a “bath” , just say so and I will apologize.
I think you understood just fine

The Bible does not support baptismal regeneration
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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The AGENT in our salvation is the Holy Spirit. Water is just a symbol of that.
This response is simple semantics.

Water baptism is the medium to accept God's grace in the New Testament.

Just as circumcision was the medium necessary in the Old Testament.

To deny God's command for water baptism for the remission of sins is as much rebellion as Moses not circumcising his own son.
Ex. 4:24-26

Do not mock God or His commands. Regardless of your faith alone sensibilities it is an act of obedience with a promise.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
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This response is simple semantics.

Water baptism is the medium to accept God's grace in the New Testament.

Just as circumcision was the medium necessary in the Old Testament.

To deny God's command for water baptism for the remission of sins is as much rebellion as Moses not circumcising his own son.
Ex. 4:24-26

Do not mock God or His commands. Regardless of your faith alone sensibilities it is an act of obedience with a promise.
Circumcision didn't save and neither does water baptism. However, you do bring up a good point that if circumcision was for infants, so also water baptism would be. That's what 1st Century Christians would've expected in absence of being told otherwise.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
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The Bible does not support baptismal regeneration
If the Bible does not support baptismal regeneration then the verbiage in the following verse has no purpose in the New Testament.


1 Peter 3:21
New International Version


and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The antecedent for the pronoun "It" is baptism.

In other words, the statement can be written as such: Baptism saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Your rebellion against what is clearly commanded is exposed.

Your belief in faith alone regeneration theology is misplaced
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
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Circumcision didn't save and neither does water baptism. However, you do bring up a good point that if circumcision was for infants, so also water baptism would be. That's what 1st Century Christians would've expected in absence of being told otherwise.
I suggest that you do not mock or mislabel the commands of God.

Genesis 17:10–14
10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a zsign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is aeight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

In the Old Testament there was no safety without the symbol of circumcision.

Those who oppose God's command of water baptism for the remission of sins carry with them an uncircumcised heart.

Their desire to follow their own sensibilities in regards to faith alone regeneration theology in place of scripture is shocking.
 
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Niki7

Guest
If the Bible does not support baptismal regeneration then the verbiage in the following verse has no purpose in the New Testament.


1 Peter 3:21
New International Version


and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The antecedent for the pronoun "It" is baptism.

In other words, the statement can be written as such: Baptism saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Your rebellion against what is clearly commanded is exposed.

Your belief in faith alone regeneration theology is misplaced
hey ~ I can't help it if you are that bad at hermeneutics

it seems you cannot understand what I wrote either. But! that does not give you a pass to trample all over scripture or what others write, with scripture being the actual concern here. and what others post, a further illustration regarding your personal interpretations

Your belief in faith alone regeneration theology is misplaced
you might study scripture that indicates people are actually 'saved' PRIOR to baptism by the fact they receive the Holy Spirit and in some cases no baptism is recorded yet evidence illustrates their salvation.

water baptism is not a part of salvation, rather it is an illustration of our life in Christ and should be undestood as such as many passages of scripture indicate. It is a public illustration of our decision to identify with Christ in His death.

further, you do not speak for Peter and he does not speak for your ideas about baptismal regeneration and frankly, I do not have either the time and certainly not the desire, to entertain you by responding to all your objections

you are free to object at your own misunderstanding
 
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Niki7

Guest
Those who oppose God's command of water baptism for the remission of sins carry with them an uncircumcised heart.

Their desire to follow their own sensibilities in regards to faith alone regeneration theology in place of scripture is shocking.
just a bit pretentious then? smh
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,120
805
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Colorado, USA
I suggest that you do not mock or mislabel the commands of God.

Genesis 17:10–14
10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a zsign of the covenant between me and you. 12 He who is aeight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

In the Old Testament there was no safety without the symbol of circumcision.

Those who oppose God's command of water baptism for the remission of sins carry with them an uncircumcised heart.

Their desire to follow their own sensibilities in regards to faith alone regeneration theology in place of scripture is shocking.
I was baptized, as a believer, by immersion, in a church of Christ. Which command did I mock?
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,120
805
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Colorado, USA
I’m sorry, but Peter doesn’t teach that in 1 Peter 3:21. He doesn’t talk about anything saving us—or them , but water. No mention of the Spirit at all. You know, for water to be a “symbol” of Holy Spirit baptism, don’t you think it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture? You can’t just MAKE UP a meaning and assign it to a verse when that verse doesn’t even mention it.
Not only is it mentioned, scripture is clear on this matter.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
670
223
43
hey ~ I can't help it if you are that bad at hermeneutics

it seems you cannot understand what I wrote either. But! that does not give you a pass to trample all over scripture or what others write, with scripture being the actual concern here. and what others post, a further illustration regarding your personal interpretations



you might study scripture that indicates people are actually 'saved' PRIOR to baptism by the fact they receive the Holy Spirit and in some cases no baptism is recorded yet evidence illustrates their salvation.

water baptism is not a part of salvation, rather it is an illustration of our life in Christ and should be undestood as such as many passages of scripture indicate. It is a public illustration of our decision to identify with Christ in His death.

further, you do not speak for Peter and he does not speak for your ideas about baptismal regeneration and frankly, I do not have either the time and certainly not the desire, to entertain you by responding to all your objections

you are free to object at your own misunderstanding
Read Acts 8:
hey ~ I can't help it if you are that bad at hermeneutics

it seems you cannot understand what I wrote either. But! that does not give you a pass to trample all over scripture or what others write, with scripture being the actual concern here. and what others post, a further illustration regarding your personal interpretations



you might study scripture that indicates people are actually 'saved' PRIOR to baptism by the fact they receive the Holy Spirit and in some cases no baptism is recorded yet evidence illustrates their salvation.

water baptism is not a part of salvation, rather it is an illustration of our life in Christ and should be undestood as such as many passages of scripture indicate. It is a public illustration of our decision to identify with Christ in His death.

further, you do not speak for Peter and he does not speak for your ideas about baptismal regeneration and frankly, I do not have either the time and certainly not the desire, to entertain you by responding to all your objections

you are free to object at your own misunderstanding
Read Acts 8:14-17 and you will read about the Samaritans who “received the word” and were baptized and then, the apostles gave them the Spirit by laying their hands on them.. they were saved before they got the spirit ( they believed and were baptized just like Jesus said). Getting the Holy Spirit did not save them. In fact please show me a scripture that SAYS anyone in the New Testament was saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
670
223
43
Circumcision didn't save and neither does water baptism. However, you do bring up a good point that if circumcision was for infants, so also water baptism would be. That's what 1st Century Christians would've expected in absence of being told otherwise.
The old Jewish law demanding circumcision was nailed to the cross. Col. 2:14 so, no, under the law of Christ, no one is circumcised, especially babies. If you choose to circumcise today, you do it for some reason other than religion. God says, 1Cor. 7:19 that circumcision is nothing—it doesn’t matter anymore. Yes, they were definitely TOLD OTHERWISE.
 

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,120
805
113
65
Colorado, USA
The old Jewish law demanding circumcision was nailed to the cross. Col. 2:14 so, no, under the law of Christ, no one is circumcised, especially babies. If you choose to circumcise today, you do it for some reason other than religion. God says, 1Cor. 7:19 that circumcision is nothing—it doesn’t matter anymore. Yes, they were definitely TOLD OTHERWISE.
Baptism replaced circumcision as the sign of being in the Covenant.
 
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Niki7

Guest
Read Acts 8:


Read Acts 8:14-17 and you will read about the Samaritans who “received the word” and were baptized and then, the apostles gave them the Spirit by laying their hands on them.. they were saved before they got the spirit ( they believed and were baptized just like Jesus said). Getting the Holy Spirit did not save them. In fact please show me a scripture that SAYS anyone in the New Testament was saved by receiving the Holy Spirit.
well the Apostles never gave anyone the Holy Spirit

and you can show me where anyone, myself included, EVER stated was saved by receiving the Holy Spirit

no unsaved person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit

it seems you responded with wild abandon so maybe slow down
 
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Niki7

Guest
“You are mistaken, not knowing the scriptures.” Matthew 22:29
well you really have no clue what I do or do not know and, you should remember Jesus was not talking about the New Testament

although popular now, it was not 'out' back then

besides, you fogot the latter half of that verse: or the power of God

do you know the power of God or just what you read about?
 

Beckworth

Active member
May 15, 2019
670
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Baptism replaced circumcision as the sign of being in the Covenant.
And where does the word of God. SAY that? You expect us to believe it just because you say it? Where is your proof from God?