Saved by faith alone?

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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#661
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
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#661
Magenta said:
I agree! Heh, doing dishes is close to last on my list of things I want to do!

I certainly do not expect that dishes being washed could ever mean a cleansing in the Spiritual realm.

Not so with baptism, though. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness.

We put on His righteousness through faith in His shed righteous blood.

Scripture attests to the flood being a form of baptism for those who were saved.

None of those who were saved got wet. The same with those baptized into Moses. None got wet.

“You do not know what you are asking,” Jesus replied. “Can you drink the cup I will drink, or be baptized with the
baptism I will undergo?” “We can,” the brothers answered. “You will drink the cup that I drink,” Jesus said, “and you
will be baptized with the baptism that I undergo." I do not believe the baptism Jesus was alluding to was water baptism.
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I wasn't getting involved in the debate it was just that line in your post that gave me a good laugh.. Especially the silly man part lol.

But on a more serious point, i would agree water doent save.. But baptism is still of great importance.

Putting aside all the different views of the how, when and modes.. Its important because Jesus himself commanded it.

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20.

The baptism you refer to in either Matt or Mark 10, refers to suffering 'can you drink this cup' is another way of putting it. The suffering servant is one of the main motifs in Mark (and other places) and for us who are in Christ we are to pick up our cross and follow him... We wil participate in that suffering. Its not the same baptism that is stated in the great comission imperatives. As we see in the great commission being enacted in power and action in the book of Acts. Water baptism is extremely important in salvation. I have to be clear here. It does not justify a person. The doctrine of justification is quite clear in scripture 'Sola Fide'.

I know there are those brother and sisyer whi dont believe in water Baptism like the Sally Ann's (Salvation Army). I just dont see it as a tenable poaition. Jesus commanded it.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#663
Mar 1, 2022
18,974
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#663
Water baptism saves dishes from grease.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#665
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
#665
Lamar said:
You accuse me of avoiding your question??? Have you no shame?

Post# 452 You ask ----- Post# 454 I answer ----- You ignore my question.
Post# 518 You ask ----- Post# 525 I answer ----- You do not respond.
Post# 529 You ask ----- Post# 534 I answer ----- You ignore my question.
Post# 566 You ask ----- Post# 574 I answer ----- You do not respond.

Your latest question (Post# 635) has no bearing on the issue at hand.

It would be as relevant as me asking you;

Are you part of the Universalist Church? They are big into salvation without any obedience.
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So you are a part of the Church of Christ. Explains everything.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#666
Jan 18, 2016
7,083
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#666
Everlasting-Grace said:
how can it not be.

if I have to do be water baptised in order to complete or take part in my salvation.

that is works..
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Only if YOU make it a work. In and of itself, it is simply an act of obedience demonstrating your willing participation in the covenant.
If you are doing it thinking that it saves you, YOU have made it a work.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#668
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
#668
Everlasting-Grace said:
how can it not be.

if I have to do be water baptised in order to complete or take part in my salvation.

that is works..
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He's talking in circles.

If Christ alone is what makes a person saved (as he said) then baptism would have NO bearing on it. Maybe he thinks there are levels to salvation. Like if we get baptized then are we Truly Super Duper Saved? As opposed to "generic saved" under the blood of Christ.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#670
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
#670
you aren't winning any souls for Christ, Hornet and Lamar (do you guys attend the same church of Christ?)

If anything you are pulling them to hell with you. If you try to add to the work of the cross you will not be entering Heaven.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#671
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
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#671
hornetguy said:
Only if YOU make it a work. In and of itself, it is simply an act of obedience demonstrating your willing participation in the covenant.
If you are doing it thinking that it saves you, YOU have made it a work.
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but if I am doing an act of obedience to gain something (in this case salvation) then I am working for it..this is using your own defenition of a work

God gave many commands. Pray without ceasing, Assemble together. Love one another, etc etc.

if we are doing them to take part in saving ourselves. by defenition are works of merit, not grace are they not?
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#672
Feb 11, 2013
1,171
181
63
#672
"It's not an work!!!"

Faith

NOUN.

1.complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
=======================================================
Baptize

VERB.

1. to immerse in water or sprinkle or pour water on in the Christian rite of baptism.

Ouch. It's a literal verb. An action. Renounce your heretical views, repent, and turn solely to the accomplished work on the cross for the salvation of your soul.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#673
May 21, 2023
909
133
43
#673
Radius said:
So you are a part of the Church of Christ. Explains everything.
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Using your logic, I will assume you are a member of the Universalist Church. Explains everything.
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#674
May 21, 2023
909
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#674
Everlasting-Grace said:
God gave many commands. Pray without ceasing, Assemble together. Love one another, etc etc.
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The purpose of baptism is the remission of sins.

The purpose of your examples is not the remission of sins.

So your examples are not relevant.

Do you have any relevant examples?
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#675
#675
Everlasting-Grace said:
but if I am doing an act of obedience to gain something (in this case salvation) then I am working for it..this is using your own defenition of a work

God gave many commands. Pray without ceasing, Assemble together. Love one another, etc etc.

if we are doing them to take part in saving ourselves. by defenition are works of merit, not grace are they not?
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We are baptized in water AFTER salvation. Saying we are doing it as an act of obedience to gain something is not work.

Do you not want to follow Christ in your daily walk as a believer? Is that work which attains salvation or is it from the new heart we receive as believers (change of mind and actions) and we do so out of love for our Savior?

We are a new creation in Christ and not attempting to earn salvation. We already have it once we accept Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.
II Corinthians 5:17
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#676
May 21, 2023
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#676
Everlasting-Grace said:
but if I am doing an act of obedience to gain something (in this case salvation) then I am working for it..this is using your own defenition of a work
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Your words are human conjecture not scripture.

You are simply trying to ignore the need for obedience.

You believe your reasoning is sound but it goes against the grain of the Bible.

Obedience has always been necessary. To say obedience is not necessary is heresy.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#677
#677
Lamar said:
The purpose of baptism is the remission of sins.

The purpose of your examples is not the remission of sins.

So your examples are not relevant.

Do you have any relevant examples?
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No. We are not saved by water baptism. A person who believes that, has misapprehended the purpose of water baptism.

First, we are saved by faith when we accept Christ as having died on our behalf so we are no longer under God's wrath.

He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:16
We see here belief leads to salvation and then baptizing in water comes after. The condemnation is not in baptism, but in
disbelief.

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 10:9
Again, no water; no baptism. BELIEF/no water

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Ephesians 2:8
Again, saved through faith.

Many other scriptures that deal with the truth that water does not save and is actually to follow salvation
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#678
May 21, 2023
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#678
Niki7 said:
We are baptized in water AFTER salvation.
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There is NO salvation without the remission of sins.

If you believe salvation is possible without the God commanded moment of remission, you are in severe error.

Submitting to this command is not a work of virtue but of simple acceptance.

We need to be humble to this fact.

Knocking for the door to be opened is not a work.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#679
Jan 18, 2016
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#679
Radius said:
you aren't winning any souls for Christ, Hornet and Lamar (do you guys attend the same church of Christ?)

If anything you are pulling them to hell with you. If you try to add to the work of the cross you will not be entering Heaven.
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Well, thank you for your opinion..... and you know what opinions are like, don't you?

My statements are fully backed, scripturally.... not by some kum-ba-ya "this is the way I feel, by picking the verses I want..."
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#680
Jan 18, 2016
7,083
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#680
Niki7 said:
No. We are not saved by water baptism. A person who believes that, has misapprehended the purpose of water baptism.

First, we are saved by faith when we accept Christ as having died on our behalf so we are no longer under God's wrath.

He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:16
We see here belief leads to salvation and then baptizing in water comes after. The condemnation is not in baptism, but in
disbelief.

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 10:9
Again, no water; no baptism. BELIEF/no water

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Ephesians 2:8
Again, saved through faith.

Many other scriptures that deal with the truth that water does not save and is actually to follow salvation
Click to expand...
So, if I understand all you folks correctly...

All someone has to do is say "I believe".... then sit on their scriptural butt the rest of their life, and they will be "saved" ..... no obedience is necessary (contrary to Jesus' own words).... nothing else.... just believe....
 
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