SAVED BY GRACE.....OH REALLY?

[Raistlin]

Matthew 22:14 >For many are called, but few are chosen.

How many millions of people sincerely believe they are saved Christians?
Conditioned by the herd mentality..
How many praise Christs Name, yet refuse to change?
So so many Christians are so so proud.
As soon as a disagreement of doctrine arises, insults flow, and all who dare question are banished from their hearts with no forgiveness nor forgetting.
This is the indicator of the manner of spirit within.

"And you shall know them by their fruits"

This statement of Matthew (Many are called...FEW are chosen) severely clashes with the old saved by grace doctrine fired from the hips so often.
America seems to breed millions of these types 24-7...unfortunately it has also spread like cancer to England and Canada and Australia and beyond...
Thanks a lot television...Thanks a lot America !!

You don't realize how many people from other nations shake their heads sadly at Americas never ending Christian doctrines of confusion, which sadly is spreading to every nations new generations and luke warmers who adopt it so eagerly, through unfortunate exposure.
Saved by grace used as a cloak to excuse all manner of behavior.
Saved by grace misunderstood and abused, becoming a grave to those shouting it out on the rooftops.
Lollipop Christianity.

Works are the result of grace.
But Lord forbid this is mentioned to the shouters.
Accusations of following the old law are levelled against any who actually understand this.
Lets just remove it out of the bible and continue shouting we are saved by grace no matter what we do like pre-programmed little robots.

You may say, who is this nasty Raistlin character?
How proud of him, how hypocritical.
But when someone is stone drunk, you really need to shake them hard to wake em up...
But i am not able to wake the drunk ones, but hopefully prick the logic of the new ones in Christ..
Before YOU get to them and condition them.

But you'll never see the good intentions behind this post...
It'll be easier to banish me from your hearts rather than to CHANGE.
Odd, i guess it's politically incorrect to ask someone to CHANGE for Christ?
I guess its called judging also?
I guess CHANGING for Christ is considered over the top?
That's 21st century mainstream Christianity for ya !!
Christ weeps daily.
Christ, the divine Son of God the Father.

 

[Consumed]

amen to that, now buckle up the armour lol

 

[mpaper345]

I like that,and it's true.

There are so many hypocrites it is absurd,when God said be ye holy for I am holy,and put on Christ.

I view a hypocrite as one who will say they follow Jesus,but they will act somewhat like the society,nation,that they dwell in.

The more sinful,and fleshy oriented,and worldy,the secular part of the nation,society,the more hypocritical the people who say they follow Christ will be.

Since America allows the pursuit of money and material things without limit,sexual immorality,alcohol,cigarettes,drugs running rampant in it,entertainment,which by the way the country operates causes high selfish and arrogance,you have a recipe for some serious hypocrites,and plenty of them,because the children grow up in that type of self centered,selfish and arrogant society,then when they do come to Christ later on,they do not want to give up those things,but try to justify them that it that they are alright despite their loving fleshy pleasures,and as time goes by they get worse in hypocrisy.

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth(2 Timothy 3;1-7).


It will be so easy for the beast system to come about because of the attitude of the people during that time,in which include they are lovers of fleshy pleasures more than lovers of God,and have a form of godliness,but deny the Spirit to lead them because of their love for fleshy pleasures,and never come to the truth that they have to abstain from sin,but try to justify it that they are alright,once saved always saved,what do I have to worry about.Eat,drink,and sin,for I am still saved.


The worse the hypocrites,and the more of them,the closer the world is to the beast system,because Christianity is the standard of the world.


3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:3-4).


It is now,where a lot of people do not want to hear the truth of the Bible,but want to hear what they want it to say,especially the New Age religion's interpretation of Christianity,that God warns us about in 1 Timothy 4.


The 1960's in America was a big boost to the beast system being closer,as their attitude was,be your own boss,have your own way,do your own thing,and general rebellion against authority,self centered,which caused an attitude of selfishness that has never been seen in the history of mankind,that led to high arrogance,and we see how the country went after that.


Was the the point that would cause the beast system to come about,the counterculture movement,a gig shift in the attitude of people towards more selfishness and arrogance.


Notice how rock and roll played a big part of the counterculture movement,and stirred them up,and America has rock bands that play all over the world stirring their young people up,and now we see their kids rebelling somewhat.


I do not believe there would of been a counterculture movement if drugs and rock and roll were not involved.


11There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men(Proverbs 30:11-14).


God is telling us of the last generation on earth before Jesus takes over the earth.
Nowhere in the history of mankind,nowhere,has the youth disobeyed their parents,and displayed their own authority,like the 1960's and beyond,with the 1950's lending a hand,for you could see they were getting a little rebellious then.


There is a lot of hypocrites,who tend to enjoy some worldy pleasures,and you can see they are allowing the flesh to lead them,and not the Spirit,but I am not judging or belittling anybody,because we all have to watch our step concerning the flesh,but pointing out that the Bible already told us this would be at this time,and a lot has to do with the way America operates,because the kids are growing up in a nation that loves money and material things,and competition,and those kids don't want to give them up when they come to Christ,but try to justify it,and it gets worse as time goes on.


A typical person that claims to be with Christ,their lifestyle is this,they do seem to have some things in their life that is associated with the world,to where you cannot tell they are claiming to be a Christian unless they tell you,and have you really seen anybody act like Christ in it's entirety.

 

[sonnyd]

2Th 2:3
¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I feel that to many have departed from the doctrine that the Apostles taught in the New Testament which has (I think) led to the falling away. 19 times in the New Testament the commandment that Ye love one another is given. Form the words that some use to describe those that don't agree with their position, I wonder is they really love them.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Paul told Timothy about the last times. Departing from the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils. Paul, through the Holy Ghost told us that these things would happen. We need to lay aside our preconceived ideas and:

Joh 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

All the discussing of the prophecies, when things will happen, etc. will amount to nothing if we do not follow the plan of salvation first. We must receive
the Holy Spirit. The bible is very explicit on this subject.

1Co 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

If we belong to Jesus we have no desire to say harsh things or belittle someone else.

Mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It will take everything we can do through Love, Prayer, Fasting, meekness and all the fruits of the spirit to be one of the few.

Lord bless each of you

 

[AnandaHya]

Hi Devolution:

JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!!!!

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

your little false demonic seed might slip by unnoticed by your fluffy works salvation talk and self righteousness but GOD knows who YOU are and will deal accordingly.

Do you deny being Devolution?

so what is your opinion of liars and lawbreakers?

 

[Bloodwashed]

Where is Mercy, & Grace. Where is esteeming others beter than yourself. It sounds good, but I'm not feeling The Love! I'm sad, but God Bless--Mark--

 

[roc]

Not by grace alone but also faith it works together like faith and works!! The grace is from Jesus for loving us as his brothers and sisters and taking the responsibility of saving us or do u think god forced Jesus to do so? We where given free will and so was angels or how els could Satan rebel?we must not think like humans for we are not but. Jesus came to show us what we are and who we are its up to u to find out in order to believe!!!!

 

[Consumed]

Hi Devolution:



your little false demonic seed might slip by unnoticed by your fluffy works salvation talk and self righteousness but GOD knows who YOU are and will deal accordingly.

Do you deny being Devolution?

so what is your opinion of liars and lawbreakers?

????????

who, are you implying is "devolution" and which post is the demonic seed i wonder, trying to work it out

 

[Crimeny]

I don't think we should judge others regardlessly.
Besides really, lets think hard upon this, are we not all hypocrites? What does it do to call someone a hypocrite when we ourselves are hypocrites or have been hypocritical? Lets just keep our mouths shut and continue walking in the footsteps of Christ.

 

[AnandaHya]

here consumed read the words again:

hopefully prick the logic of the new ones in Christ..
Before YOU get to them and condition them.

targeting NEW believers in Christ in order to brainwash them to cult beliefs. notice the LOGIC emphasis: classic Gnostic stress on hidden knowledge and private revelation and "LOGIC"

But you'll never see the good intentions behind this post...

accusing anyone who sees past his lies as not giving him credit for his "good" intentions

It'll be easier to banish me from your hearts rather than to CHANGE.

I don't want you in my heart i want JESUS!

Odd, i guess it's politically incorrect to ask someone to CHANGE for Christ?

nope but YOU don't ask GOD does and we don't change to fit YOUR doctrines

I guess its called judging also?
I guess CHANGING for Christ is considered over the top?

oh poor Devo, putting up strawmen to torch. MOST Christians CHANGE when God takes them to task. its not a choice its what GOD does to His children. HE transforms them and HE chastens them if they do not listen.

That's 21st century mainstream Christianity for ya !!

so Devo solution is start your own cult, yaa

Christ weeps daily.
Christ, the divine Son of God the Father.

notice the SON in really big letters? because Raistlin/ Devo and his cult don't believe that Jesus is GOD.

 

[Consumed]

Firstly, i use a capital letter for any reference to God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, He Him You etc so i cant see the correlation to being agnostic(lol i still dont know what that is in itself)

frm how i read the thread, yes we are saved by grace, thats the start point not that we have arrived. Yes we have every spiritual blessing given us to overcome but we need to walk in His righteousnss and light or why would Jesus have said to deny ourselves,take up our cross daily - starts with the choice to continue following in His ways and as long as we acknowledge Him in all we do His grace abounds, sure we stuff up on the way, all he asks is we acknowledge it and keep moving on.

for sanctification to have its work in us we have our part in it, we are meant to bear fruit, if its just grace then why the importance on bearing ruit.

Im all for grace, i go to a grace prehing church == balanced teaching on it though,not a self justifying no need to change trivel its all done doctrine, that goes against the teachings on being loving, merciful etc

 

[Raistlin]

amen to that, now buckle up the armour lol

That is great scripture isn't it !! Put on righteousness as a Breastplate, helm of salvation.....so true.

Thanks Consumed.

 

[Raistlin]

I like that,and it's true.

There are so many hypocrites it is absurd,when God said be ye holy for I am holy,and put on Christ.

I view a hypocrite as one who will say they follow Jesus,but they will act somewhat like the society,nation,that they dwell in.

The more sinful,and fleshy oriented,and worldy,the secular part of the nation,society,the more hypocritical the people who say they follow Christ will be.

Since America allows the pursuit of money and material things without limit,sexual immorality,alcohol,cigarettes,drugs running rampant in it,entertainment,which by the way the country operates causes high selfish and arrogance,you have a recipe for some serious hypocrites,and plenty of them,because the children grow up in that type of self centered,selfish and arrogant society,then when they do come to Christ later on,they do not want to give up those things,but try to justify them that it that they are alright despite their loving fleshy pleasures,and as time goes by they get worse in hypocrisy.

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth(2 Timothy 3;1-7).


It will be so easy for the beast system to come about because of the attitude of the people during that time,in which include they are lovers of fleshy pleasures more than lovers of God,and have a form of godliness,but deny the Spirit to lead them because of their love for fleshy pleasures,and never come to the truth that they have to abstain from sin,but try to justify it that they are alright,once saved always saved,what do I have to worry about.Eat,drink,and sin,for I am still saved.


The worse the hypocrites,and the more of them,the closer the world is to the beast system,because Christianity is the standard of the world.


3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:3-4).


It is now,where a lot of people do not want to hear the truth of the Bible,but want to hear what they want it to say,especially the New Age religion's interpretation of Christianity,that God warns us about in 1 Timothy 4.


The 1960's in America was a big boost to the beast system being closer,as their attitude was,be your own boss,have your own way,do your own thing,and general rebellion against authority,self centered,which caused an attitude of selfishness that has never been seen in the history of mankind,that led to high arrogance,and we see how the country went after that.


Was the the point that would cause the beast system to come about,the counterculture movement,a gig shift in the attitude of people towards more selfishness and arrogance.


Notice how rock and roll played a big part of the counterculture movement,and stirred them up,and America has rock bands that play all over the world stirring their young people up,and now we see their kids rebelling somewhat.


I do not believe there would of been a counterculture movement if drugs and rock and roll were not involved.


11There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men(Proverbs 30:11-14).


God is telling us of the last generation on earth before Jesus takes over the earth.
Nowhere in the history of mankind,nowhere,has the youth disobeyed their parents,and displayed their own authority,like the 1960's and beyond,with the 1950's lending a hand,for you could see they were getting a little rebellious then.


There is a lot of hypocrites,who tend to enjoy some worldy pleasures,and you can see they are allowing the flesh to lead them,and not the Spirit,but I am not judging or belittling anybody,because we all have to watch our step concerning the flesh,but pointing out that the Bible already told us this would be at this time,and a lot has to do with the way America operates,because the kids are growing up in a nation that loves money and material things,and competition,and those kids don't want to give them up when they come to Christ,but try to justify it,and it gets worse as time goes on.


A typical person that claims to be with Christ,their lifestyle is this,they do seem to have some things in their life that is associated with the world,to where you cannot tell they are claiming to be a Christian unless they tell you,and have you really seen anybody act like Christ in it's entirety.

I agree Mpaper.
You identified a large part of the problem here.
Good reply.

 

[Raistlin]

2Th 2:3
¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I feel that to many have departed from the doctrine that the Apostles taught in the New Testament which has (I think) led to the falling away. 19 times in the New Testament the commandment that Ye love one another is given. Form the words that some use to describe those that don't agree with their position, I wonder is they really love them.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Paul told Timothy about the last times. Departing from the faith, seducing spirits, doctrines of devils. Paul, through the Holy Ghost told us that these things would happen. We need to lay aside our preconceived ideas and:

Joh 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

All the discussing of the prophecies, when things will happen, etc. will amount to nothing if we do not follow the plan of salvation first. We must receive
the Holy Spirit. The bible is very explicit on this subject.

1Co 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

If we belong to Jesus we have no desire to say harsh things or belittle someone else.

Mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It will take everything we can do through Love, Prayer, Fasting, meekness and all the fruits of the spirit to be one of the few.

Lord bless each of you

Well spoken. I agree wholly.
Thank you sonnyd.

 

[Raistlin]

Where is Mercy, & Grace. Where is esteeming others beter than yourself. It sounds good, but I'm not feeling The Love! I'm sad, but God Bless--Mark--

Thank you bloodwashed,
there is love in the message when really looked at,
it is just stern love, sorrowful love, frustrated love...
A man not rebuked by his brethren, is a man unloved.
I am sad too.

 

[Raistlin]

Not by grace alone but also faith it works together like faith and works!! The grace is from Jesus for loving us as his brothers and sisters and taking the responsibility of saving us or do u think god forced Jesus to do so? We where given free will and so was angels or how els could Satan rebel?we must not think like humans for we are not but. Jesus came to show us what we are and who we are its up to u to find out in order to believe!!!!

Agreed.
Grace is the down payment,
Personal growth the interest,
Internal change is the profit,
Perseverance is the guarantee,
Till our Lord comes to settle His account.

 

[Raistlin]

Firstly, i use a capital letter for any reference to God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, He Him You etc so i cant see the correlation to being agnostic(lol i still dont know what that is in itself)

frm how i read the thread, yes we are saved by grace, thats the start point not that we have arrived. Yes we have every spiritual blessing given us to overcome but we need to walk in His righteousnss and light or why would Jesus have said to deny ourselves,take up our cross daily - starts with the choice to continue following in His ways and as long as we acknowledge Him in all we do His grace abounds, sure we stuff up on the way, all he asks is we acknowledge it and keep moving on.

for sanctification to have its work in us we have our part in it, we are meant to bear fruit, if its just grace then why the importance on bearing ruit.

Im all for grace, i go to a grace prehing church == balanced teaching on it though,not a self justifying no need to change trivel its all done doctrine, that goes against the teachings on being loving, merciful etc

I fully agree...
Well said.

 

[Crossfire]

frm how i read the thread, yes we are saved by grace, thats the start point not that we have arrived. Yes we have every spiritual blessing given us to overcome but we need to walk in His righteousnss and light or why would Jesus have said to deny ourselves,take up our cross daily - starts with the choice to continue following in His ways and as long as we acknowledge Him in all we do His grace abounds, sure we stuff up on the way, all he asks is we acknowledge it and keep moving on.

for sanctification to have its work in us we have our part in it, we are meant to bear fruit, if its just grace then why the importance on bearing ruit.

Im all for grace, i go to a grace prehing church == balanced teaching on it though,not a self justifying no need to change trivel its all done doctrine, that goes against the teachings on being loving, merciful etc

Amen. I'll never understand how a large portion of the church over the centuries have turned their backs on sound biblical teaching that, once saved we are new creatures in Christ, set free from the yolk of sin and bondage in order to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit into Christ-likeness. For the true believer, we are saved from sin NOT saved to sin.

Personally, I can't thank God enough for His grace. However, if divine grace does not change the lives those who claim to partake of it, then the grace they are partaking of is not divine at all.

 

[gb9]

while all the above is true,one thing to keep in mind is we need grace more than one time,because we all still sin after we accept Christ.mistakes are sin. lots of people do not want to see that a thought can be a sin ( if you hate your brother,etc.) .so we need grace throughout our lives.

 

[See_KING_Truth]

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

People do not keep the law and the commandments because they have no love for God or Christ

John 14
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you don't keep the commandments, you don't love Jesus (in some cases, just dont love him enough). If you don't love Jesus, then you don't know Jesus..therefore Jesus does not know you and will profess it just as he said he will in Matthew 7:23

Repent all you workers of iniquity!