Saved by Water
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I did in the post-1116 Jesu said to what more do I need? in two Gospels Mark and Matthew 
Jesus was not water baptizing in those scripture references. What I meant was detailed water baptisms such as the following: Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, and 22:16.
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I am sorry if I don't believe you when you have told me I am not saved, nor is my baptism valid.
FYI there is no documentation of Peter water Baptism after Jesus ascended.
So Peter had to have the Water Baptism of John Before Jesus was Crucified, the Disciples were recorded in Scripture to BE BAPTIZING people, and it said Jesus did NOT Baptize anyone.
John 4:1
1Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
Your whole Biblical position was Just blown out of the water
. You to be right biblically, Jesus would have had to Baptize His disciples. Jesus did not.
How can the disciples of Jesus Baptize people when they were not saved according to your doctrine?
YOU have no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in Jesus' name, only. WE only have the Baptism of John, which clearly was the standard because that was said in the book of Acts chapter 19, as you were shown.
NOw I drop the mic for you, sir, and please explain that?
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Please do not apologize I am not upset I want you to answer my question
I will repost it again in its entirety below
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I am sorry if I don't believe you when you have told me I am not saved, nor is my baptism valid.
FYI there is no documentation of Peter water Baptism after Jesus ascended.
So Peter had to have the Water Baptism of John Before Jesus was Crucified, the Disciples were recorded in Scripture to BE BAPTIZING people, and it said Jesus did NOT Baptize anyone.
John 4:1
1Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
Your whole Biblical position was Just blown out of the water.
You to be right biblically, Jesus would have had to Baptize His disciples. Jesus did not.
How can the disciples of Jesus Baptize people when they were not saved according to your doctrine?
YOU have no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in Jesus' name, only. WE only have the Baptism of John, which clearly was the standard because that was said in the book of Acts chapter 19, as you were shown.
NOw I drop the mic for you, sir, and please explain that?
I will repost it again in its entirety below
______________
I am sorry if I don't believe you when you have told me I am not saved, nor is my baptism valid.
FYI there is no documentation of Peter water Baptism after Jesus ascended.
So Peter had to have the Water Baptism of John Before Jesus was Crucified, the Disciples were recorded in Scripture to BE BAPTIZING people, and it said Jesus did NOT Baptize anyone.
John 4:1
1Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
Your whole Biblical position was Just blown out of the water
.You to be right biblically, Jesus would have had to Baptize His disciples. Jesus did not.
How can the disciples of Jesus Baptize people when they were not saved according to your doctrine?
YOU have no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in Jesus' name, only. WE only have the Baptism of John, which clearly was the standard because that was said in the book of Acts chapter 19, as you were shown.
NOw I drop the mic for you, sir, and please explain that?
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No, I've not heard of it.
As to your reference to the past, it does define us to a degree (natural temperament comes in as well). However, we need to be real careful about digging deep into self to find all the problems. Allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal areas that need changing is one thing. Self indulgent introspection is destructive.
There used to be a lot of talk about healing of the memories. I spent a lot of time going over my past. What it really entails is forgiving all those who have hurt you, and that includes yourself. The problem is that it is too easy to get self absorbed instead of Christ focused. I became like that and my Christian life nosedived.
We need to know that what we were prior to being born again is no longer the real "us". When we see that, it empowers us to be free of the old man. It is a lifelong process that includes having the mind renewed. I was always looking for a "breakthrough". I had this nagging feeling that there was something hidden that was keeping me back. When the truth finally dawned, it was almost as liberating as the day I was born again. There is nothing for me to do. The salvation that Lord Jesus won for us is so good that not even we can muck it up. And we can't go back in time anyway. It really is finished. My breakthrough came when I realised that I did not need a breakthrough. My past is now irrelevant. It all happened to a dead person. He never did me any favours. I am a new person and I could not be happier!
It is truth that sets us free. When we start declaring that we are new creations in Christ, the Holy Spirit within rejoices in the truth. We become stronger because faith rises.
This is a difficult subject to cover in a forum like this. When I taught these things, it was a day and a half to cover the basics. I hope that I've shed at least a little more light.
As to your reference to the past, it does define us to a degree (natural temperament comes in as well). However, we need to be real careful about digging deep into self to find all the problems. Allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal areas that need changing is one thing. Self indulgent introspection is destructive.
There used to be a lot of talk about healing of the memories. I spent a lot of time going over my past. What it really entails is forgiving all those who have hurt you, and that includes yourself. The problem is that it is too easy to get self absorbed instead of Christ focused. I became like that and my Christian life nosedived.
We need to know that what we were prior to being born again is no longer the real "us". When we see that, it empowers us to be free of the old man. It is a lifelong process that includes having the mind renewed. I was always looking for a "breakthrough". I had this nagging feeling that there was something hidden that was keeping me back. When the truth finally dawned, it was almost as liberating as the day I was born again. There is nothing for me to do. The salvation that Lord Jesus won for us is so good that not even we can muck it up. And we can't go back in time anyway. It really is finished. My breakthrough came when I realised that I did not need a breakthrough. My past is now irrelevant. It all happened to a dead person. He never did me any favours. I am a new person and I could not be happier!
It is truth that sets us free. When we start declaring that we are new creations in Christ, the Holy Spirit within rejoices in the truth. We become stronger because faith rises.
This is a difficult subject to cover in a forum like this. When I taught these things, it was a day and a half to cover the basics. I hope that I've shed at least a little more light.
Oh yes totally agree with that point.
We seek the Holy Spirit to reveal areas that needs dealing with and not what we want him to deal with.
I am fully aware that one issue will lead to others but deal with one then others may be dealt with as part of that.
Always a cause of the affect(s) deal with one cause then there could be a domino affect.
We seek the Holy Spirit to reveal areas that needs dealing with and not what we want him to deal with.
I am fully aware that one issue will lead to others but deal with one then others may be dealt with as part of that.
Always a cause of the affect(s) deal with one cause then there could be a domino affect.
Please do not apologize I am not upset I want you to answer my question
I will repost it again in its entirety below
______________
I am sorry if I don't believe you when you have told me I am not saved, nor is my baptism valid.
FYI there is no documentation of Peter water Baptism after Jesus ascended.
So Peter had to have the Water Baptism of John Before Jesus was Crucified, the Disciples were recorded in Scripture to BE BAPTIZING people, and it said Jesus did NOT Baptize anyone.
John 4:1
1Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
Your whole Biblical position was Just blown out of the water.
You to be right biblically, Jesus would have had to Baptize His disciples. Jesus did not.
How can the disciples of Jesus Baptize people when they were not saved according to your doctrine?
YOU have no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in Jesus' name, only. WE only have the Baptism of John, which clearly was the standard because that was said in the book of Acts chapter 19, as you were shown.
NOw I drop the mic for you, sir, and please explain that?
I will repost it again in its entirety below
______________
I am sorry if I don't believe you when you have told me I am not saved, nor is my baptism valid.
FYI there is no documentation of Peter water Baptism after Jesus ascended.
So Peter had to have the Water Baptism of John Before Jesus was Crucified, the Disciples were recorded in Scripture to BE BAPTIZING people, and it said Jesus did NOT Baptize anyone.
John 4:1
1Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2(though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
Your whole Biblical position was Just blown out of the water
.You to be right biblically, Jesus would have had to Baptize His disciples. Jesus did not.
How can the disciples of Jesus Baptize people when they were not saved according to your doctrine?
YOU have no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in Jesus' name, only. WE only have the Baptism of John, which clearly was the standard because that was said in the book of Acts chapter 19, as you were shown.
NOw I drop the mic for you, sir, and please explain that?
I would be remiss if I did not point out that your reply has no bearing on what we were discussing. Rather than acknowledge the point made, that the apostles’ water baptized people in the name of the Lord Jesus, you pivot. Therefore I can only conclude that you believe the apostles’ disobeyed Jesus’ instructions. I personally cannot agree with that assessment since the bible never contradicts itself.
When it is understood that each and every record where people were baptized in the name of the Lord was actually water baptism the implication is clear. Both obedience to water baptism, and receiving the Holy Ghost are required and take place independent of each other.
After Jesus’ ascension, according to the biblical record people were water baptized by disciples either before or after they received the Holy Ghost. And it was Jesus who shed forth the Holy Ghost. (John 15:26, Acts 2:33) As stated elsewhere in this forum the reason one could conclude that Jesus never water baptized was in order to avoid any confusion.
As you stated there is no record, specific to Peter being water baptized in the name of the Lord after Jesus’ ascension. However, Peter made it clear that “everyone” was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. This indicates that Peter would not have been excluded from obeying the command. Peter gave instructions in Acts 2:38 and we see from verse 41 that those who gladly received his word were baptized.
Jesus himself said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in HIS NAME to all nations BEGINNING in Jerusalem. The message of the need for everyone to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was preached for the first time in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. And as such, Jesus’ prophecy concerning the message and where it would begin was fulfilled.
Many fail to realize that John the Baptist only introduced the need to repent and obey water baptism as the means by which God would remit individuals personal sins. Those he baptized had to believe his message and turn from their sin in anticipation of the coming messiah. At that point no one was aware that Jesus was going to suffer and die, be buried and be resurrected. Furthermore, it was only after Jesus shed his blood on Calvary that remission of sin was made available for all.
In addition, we see the same mentality today as with the Jews in the time of John the Baptist. The idea that they had to get water baptized like a common Gentile was repulsive to them. The Gentiles in their day that wanted to convert to Judaism and become accepted sons of God had to be immersed in a Mikveh. The Mikveh mirrored the NT water baptism. In their pride they refused to believe that they were not already accepted sons of God. John made it clear that if they would not accept God’s counsel and get water baptized God would bring forth children from the stones lying on the ground before them. (Matthew 3:9-10) John went on to say that he indeed water baptized and that one was coming who would baptize them with the Holy Ghost and fire. (Matt. 3:11) John’s comment in no way implied one would replace the other. Nor did it do that, as we see in the actions of the apostles in Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 8:35-40, 10:44-48, 16:14-15, 16:28-33, 18:6-10, 19:1-6, 22:16.
Hope this addressed your questions/comments. Getting off-line for now. Have a good night.
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@CS1 You accused me of saying you do not have the Holy Spirit. I did not say that. What I said was that some people received the Holy Ghost first, and afterward got water baptized in the name of Jesus. While in other cases the experience happened in reverse. You may want to go back and look at what was actually stated. The relevant posts are as follows: 1079, 1092, 1095, 1101, 1102. Notice you make an assumption about what I think in post 1107 concerning the Holy Spirit.
My posts have never addressed whether you have the Holy Spirit. That is something you came up with yourself. My point has always been that obedience to water baptism as evidenced in the word was done in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of one's sin in association with Jesus' sacrifice. And I will say it once again, so there is no confusion. The word confirms that people complied with the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus at times before, and at other times after they received the Holy Spirit.
My posts have never addressed whether you have the Holy Spirit. That is something you came up with yourself. My point has always been that obedience to water baptism as evidenced in the word was done in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of one's sin in association with Jesus' sacrifice. And I will say it once again, so there is no confusion. The word confirms that people complied with the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus at times before, and at other times after they received the Holy Spirit.
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My comment was not meant as an insult, it was an attempt to help you see you were missing a specific point. And if you would actually focus on what was being shared a great truth might be realized.
Also, consider that being thin skinned hampers the ability to learn from one another. And that comment is not an insult either it is an attempt to help. Although many would not accept it. I don't just discount things people present on this forum. When a point seems to go against something I have accepted as truth, I search the scriptures to see if I have misunderstood something. To think we have all the answers is to put ourselves equal to God and that is not a good thing. We are fallible. But praise God, He is always there to pick us up and set us in the right direction if we remain humble.
Also, consider that being thin skinned hampers the ability to learn from one another. And that comment is not an insult either it is an attempt to help. Although many would not accept it. I don't just discount things people present on this forum. When a point seems to go against something I have accepted as truth, I search the scriptures to see if I have misunderstood something. To think we have all the answers is to put ourselves equal to God and that is not a good thing. We are fallible. But praise God, He is always there to pick us up and set us in the right direction if we remain humble.
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Jesus Christ is the Word and HE is the Supreme Authority and HE said to baptize in the name of Father The Son and the Holy Spirit.
If you believe what you just wrote then you are wrong in your very own position. You refused to answer my question and now trying to back peddle to save face. I have no need to converse with you anymore. Were done
If you believe what you just wrote then you are wrong in your very own position. You refused to answer my question and now trying to back peddle to save face. I have no need to converse with you anymore. Were done
Are you even aware of what you are saying? Do you even listen to or read what you have said in a past post?
YOu said: my baptism is not valid nor am I saved IF I was not baptized in Jesus' name only. NOW you are saying you did not say I did not have the Holy Spirit?
How many unsaved people have the Holy Spirit? it is a real simple answer, the person who is saved = Holy Spirit comes into the Believer. The empower to do work can happen then or at a later time as the Lord wills.
You say :
that some people received the Holy Ghost first, and afterward got water baptized in the name of Jesus.
I am sure that is true, how many of them were not saved until the water Baptism in the name of Jesus Only?
Thas what you are teaching here. You are saying a person can receive the Holy Spirit and still not be saved until they are water baptized.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The Holy Spirit will enter into an unsaved person and NOT SAVE THEM!
ignorant, unbiblical, biblically illiterate, immature in the word, types like you that give Pentacostels a bad name. Shame on you.
You need to stop because you are in error, and very close to Blasphemy. TO say the Holy Spirit enter into a person who is unsaved is Foolishness.
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