Saved by Water

[justbyfaith]

You are describing separate Persons.

As long sa you realize that I am saying that they are one and the same Spirit;

What does it matter to me if you call that separate or distinct?

I would call them distinct;

You can by all means determine that they are separate as long as you understand that they are one and the selfsame Spirit.

It seems you don't understand Luke 23:46. Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.

Again, we have Jesus speaking to His Father. They are separate Persons. Otherwise, you just have schizophrenia and Jesus talking to himself, which makes no sense.

Jesus wasn't releasing His Spirit into eternity, but rather was announcing His physical death.

It says that "He gave up the Ghost" when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit."

No, again, 1 Pet 3:21 says that literal water (this water) symbolizes the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When water is used, it is always a ritual and a symbol for something else.

It is saying that the waters of baptism are a like figure of baptism (in water) the doth also now save us.

For the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39).


Water baptism is a symbol of us being buried with Christ and being raised with Him. This actual immersion in water is a confession before men of the Lord Jesus Christ; being identified with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

See Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8.

I am not saying that a man cannot confess Him before men apart from water baptism; just that water baptism in Jesus' Name is a special kind of confession, that is not easily reversed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You are describing separate Persons.

As long sa you realize that I am saying that they are one and the same Spirit;

Then you just remain confused.

What does it matter to me if you call that separate or distinct?

The only thing that matters to be is Scripture. Not what matters to you.

I would call them distinct;

You can by all means determine that they are separate as long as you understand that they are one and the selfsame Spirit.

Nope. 3 distinct and separate Persons, all co-equal.

It says that "He gave up the Ghost" when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my Spirit."

Yes, that is my point. It makes no sense for a Person so say that to Himself, but using a different name.

For the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39).

Maybe the first time unbelievers came to faith, but Gal 3:2,5 prove that the reception of the Holy Spirit is by faith.

Water baptism is a symbol of us being buried with Christ and being raised with Him. This actual immersion in water is a confession before men of the Lord Jesus Christ; being identified with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

We agree here.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, that is my point. It makes no sense for a Person so say that to Himself, but using a different name.

The Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

It is the nature of One who inhabits eternity that He dwells in eternity from everlasting to everlasting.

He lived one eternal moment and then descended into time to take on an added nature of human flesh,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Maybe the first time unbelievers came to faith, but Gal 3:2,5 prove that the reception of the Holy Spirit is by faith.

A case can be made that it is the faith of the operation of God (Colossians 2:12) that is being spoken of ther.

We agree here.

Good. Now look up the verses (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) to see what I am saying about Acts 2:38 salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

It is the nature of One who inhabits eternity that He dwells in eternity from everlasting to everlasting.

He lived one eternal moment and then descended into time to take on an added nature of human flesh,

None of this supports your claim.

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

"He (God the Father) purposed in Christ (His Son)".

That is 2 separate Persons.

Good. Now look up the verses (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8) to see what I am saying about Acts 2:38 salvation.

You want salvation? Check out what Jesus said in John 3:15,16, 5:24, and Paul's answer to the jailer in Acts 16:31. That's biblical salvation.

 

[peldom10]

I do believe in water baptism but it is not saving, you have a problem in that Noah was saved not by the water but by being in the ark nor was sin washed away for soon he was naked and drunk and his son was even worse in that he mocked [and worse] his father's nakedness.

The power in Peter's reference is that baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience, it is our testimony that we have believed God that judgement will come and we have fled to God for mercy just as Noah did, the resurrection of Jesus Christ [who is that ark] justifying our faith.

I have been in troubles when I have been obliged to remind God that I am His baptized child. And it is always good to remind the devil.

Paul is defo speaking about water bappo when he says "we have been buried with Christ and are raised up to walk in newness of life"

Yes baptism saves...clearly stated here;.......................Peter 3: 21.... where unto even baptism doth also now save us......

Study scriptures and avoid new age religion garbage. (be reminded the Bible says...in he end times there will be great deceptions....they are here....big time).
1611 KJV is recommended because new age religion bibles are changed in violation of God's word and His intent, see Rev. 22; 18,19 and Deu.4;2 and 12; 32.

The new bibles have all (known to date) have been re-written and published since 1960. Further, the new age religion interpretations, ...no baptism required, OSAS, universalism, etc., have been made since 1960...or, at least none of record can be found before 1960.

That tells a big factual point.

 

[justbyfaith]

None of this supports your claim.

Actually it does, if you would endeavor to understand it.

"He (God the Father) purposed in Christ (His Son)".

That is 2 separate Persons.

God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).

Not 1/3 of God; and not a 2nd God.

You want salvation? Check out what Jesus said in John 3:15,16, 5:24, and Paul's answer to the jailer in Acts 16:31. That's biblical salvation.

If anyone confesses Jesus before men, Jesus will confess him before the Father and before His angels.

Water baptism in Jesus' Name is a confession of Jesus before men.

 

[Evmur]

Yes baptism saves...clearly stated here;.......................Peter 3: 21.... where unto even baptism doth also now save us......

Study scriptures and avoid new age religion garbage. (be reminded the Bible says...in he end times there will be great deceptions....they are here....big time).
1611 KJV is recommended because new age religion bibles are changed in violation of God's word and His intent, see Rev. 22; 18,19 and Deu.4;2 and 12; 32.

The new bibles have all (known to date) have been re-written and published since 1960. Further, the new age religion interpretations, ...no baptism required, OSAS, universalism, etc., have been made since 1960...or, at least none of record can be found before 1960.

That tells a big factual point.

When Peter preached to Cornelius the Holy Ghost fell upon him while Peter was preaching, Jesus saves.

Simon the magician was baptised.

 

[Evmur]

One is a Spirit without flesh and the other is the same Spirit dwelling in flesh.

Also, see below.



The Spirit descended into time and took on an added nature of human flesh. In doing so, He did not VACATE ETERNITY.

Then, from the perspective of time, Jesus (the Spirit become flesh) released His Spirit back into eternity (Luke 23:46). This was the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who was God (John 4:24).



While water baptism in Jesus' Name does not remove the filth of the flesh (1 Peter 3:21), it does wash away sins (Acts 22:16).

... nothing but the blood of Jesus

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes baptism saves...clearly stated here;.......................Peter 3: 21.... where unto even baptism doth also now save us......

Not the water kind. Peter was speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is found in Eph 1:13,14.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You want salvation? Check out what Jesus said in John 3:15,16, 5:24, and Paul's answer to the jailer in Acts 16:31. That's biblical salvation.

If anyone confesses Jesus before men, Jesus will confess him before the Father and before His angels.

What makes you think that is referring to salvation?

Water baptism in Jesus' Name is a confession of Jesus before men.

Right. It it the ritual that identifies the believer with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. It saves no one.

I gave you the verses that speak of salvation.

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone confesses Jesus before men, Jesus will confess him before the Father and before His angels.
What makes you think that is referring to salvation?

Water baptism in Jesus' Name is a confession of Jesus before men.
Right. It it the ritual that identifies the believer with Christ's death, burial and resurrection. It saves no one.

I gave you the verses that speak of salvation.

For the answers to your questions, see the verses in question (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

 

[Wansvic]

Many people should consider that Jesus is only the author of salvation to all those who obey him. (Heb. 5:9) Luke recorded that the commands given by the Holy Ghost to the apostles after Jesus ascended were in fact Jesus' own instructions to all mankind. (Acts 2:1)

Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is not optional. Peter commanded that EVERYONE was to be baptized that way for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38) The command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus was given to every group of people; there were no exceptions.

 

[Wansvic]

I do believe in water baptism but it is not saving, you have a problem in that Noah was saved not by the water but by being in the ark nor was sin washed away for soon he was naked and drunk and his son was even worse in that he mocked [and worse] his father's nakedness.

The power in Peter's reference is that baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience, it is our testimony that we have believed God that judgement will come and we have fled to God for mercy just as Noah did, the resurrection of Jesus Christ [who is that ark] justifying our faith.

I have been in troubles when I have been obliged to remind God that I am His baptized child. And it is always good to remind the devil.

Paul is defo speaking about water bappo when he says "we have been buried with Christ and are raised up to walk in newness of life"

Scripture reveals that water baptism is not optional, but mandatory. Romans 6:5 makes the point that IF a person is planted together in the likeness of Christ's death they can expect to be resurrected as He was. In water baptism the old man is crucified with Jesus and the body of sin is dwelt with through obedience to God's command.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:4-6

 

[justinhelton1213]

Ok, So are you saying that baptism sanctifies you/makes you holy before God? IE you get saved?

 

[Evmur]

Scripture reveals that water baptism is not optional, but mandatory. Romans 6:5 makes the point that IF a person is planted together in the likeness of Christ's death they can expect to be resurrected as He was. In water baptism the old man is crucified with Jesus and the body of sin is dwelt with through obedience to God's command.

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." Romans 6:4-6

You simply have to ask can a person be saved before they are baptised? are there instances in scripture of people being saved before they were baptised? the answer is a most definite yes. Therefore the saving work is not in baptism.

It is quite obvious really, for if you were saved in a place where there was no water and water is necessary for salvation then you could not be saved. The Holy Spirit is of course everywhere present ... some folks insist on the baptism of John but repudiate the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

That does not mean that salvation is an ordinance of the church, it is and we ought to do it.

You are making an ordinance of the church into a sacrament ... it is the beginning of sacramentalism, do this and be saved. It is the huge error of Episcopalianism ... and they don't baptise they sprinkle.

 

[justbyfaith]

Those who were saved were predestinated to salvation.

God knew that those who spoke in tongues, in Acts 10, would be baptized later.

Also, in the context of the book of Acts, Acts 10 is a transitional period in which the Judaizers would not have allowed Gentiles to be included in the church except God showed clearly that they could be saved. So, God gave them the gift of the Holy Spirit so that there would be no objections to them being baptized and thus included in the church.

Some received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized.

It remains, that for those who do not have the Holy Spirit, He is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-39).

 

[Wansvic]

You simply have to ask can a person be saved before they are baptised? are there instances in scripture of people being saved before they were baptised? the answer is a most definite yes. Therefore the saving work is not in baptism.

It is quite obvious really, for if you were saved in a place where there was no water and water is necessary for salvation then you could not be saved. The Holy Spirit is of course everywhere present ... some folks insist on the baptism of John but repudiate the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

That does not mean that salvation is an ordinance of the church, it is and we ought to do it.

You are making an ordinance of the church into a sacrament ... it is the beginning of sacramentalism, do this and be saved. It is the huge error of Episcopalianism ... and they don't baptise they sprinkle.

Jude 3 says there is a common salvation. And that it can be found by earnestly seeking out the faith that was first given to the apostles. According to the word all who believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection are expected to comply with specific instructions. The apostles actions make this clear. As seen in the word people were commanded to repent, submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost as well.

Also, per your comment, consider that water may not be present when a person hears and believes the gospel message. However, it is available at some point. Water baptism can take place anywhere a person can be submerged. And that includes one's bath tub.

 

[Simona1988]

Water is a symbol. That's it. The Bible cannot be understood until we recognize symbolism and Living Allegories. To be clear: A person can be fully saved by the Work of Christ even if there isn't a single . . . drop . . . of water to be found . . . anywhere. Water baptism is the same reflection as was physical circumcision . . . they point to the same . . . exact . . . thing.

The crucifixion of Jesus, John 19: 32-34

32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

 

[Simona1988]

More examples of the presence of the (saving) water in the miracles of Jesus Christ and in the Bible

 

[Simona1988]

...and some more.
Jesus Christ commands the waves and the wind



Jesus Christ walks on water