Scriptural support for Free Will

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
61
48
#21
Free Will in the Bible
Mt 23:37
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Gathered for salvation, what else? Since Israel was already the chosen nation of God, according to Reformed Theology, every Israelite should have become one of the elect and been irresistibly saved. Instead, Israel (by and large) freely "elected" to reject Christ. So much for unconditional election.
Since these are both about the same topic I'll put them together. To fully understand this we need to look at the context. But first I want to say something regaurding what N6 said, I do not know what Reformed Theology says about Israel being elect as a nation to salvation, I would like to see the Scripture for that, because I have never seen any thing to that nature.

First of all Jesus is not addressing Israel He is addressing Jerusalem and more directly the Pharisees that is what Metthew 23 is about Jesus rebuking the
scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. Who were all ways trying to test Jesus by asking trick question so they thought, I love when Jesus would answer one of their dual sided questions with a simple, yes.

What was one of the rebukes of Jesus towards those
scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites? In verse 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.”

If the scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites could make a proselyte twice the son of hell that they were, how much more would they make their children citizens of hell and that is how Jesus is finishing his rebuke of the scribe, Pharisees, hypocrites,
“How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!”

Jesus is rebuking these scribes, Pharisees, hypocrites by letting then know that the teaching that they teach are hindering their children from being gathered, I know some of you are saying how do you know that, read verse 38, “See! Your house is left to you desolate;”

Jesus is not wanting to gather all of Israel as some think, He is finishing His rebuke of the scribes, Pharisees, hyporties after all of His, "
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!"

The only one exercising their free will in this chapter is Jesus in His rebuke of these religious people, He is not saying anyone has any free will to exercise in salvation. Again I am going to say, that all those that attend Churches that teach the Bible verse by verse through the Bible are very blessed because they are taught to read the Bible in context, to develop thier doctrine from the context of the Bible. Not of this would of come up if all saints were taught verse by verse through the Bible and read the Bible in it's context, because a simple read of the context answered the question of verse 37 by reading verse 38.

The biggest blessing and curse are those verse brakes, blessing because you can locate a protion of Scripture, curse because lots of people think that verses stand alone. Lots of that came from the KJV which printed the Bible with each verse seperated from each other, which has been the start of more cults and false doctrine then any other thing I know of and I do not know everything.

God Bless
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,041
295
83
#22
From the beginning of chapter 23 Jesus is on a diatribe about the sins and hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees. I think Jesus
is calling the people to righteousness. The gathering of the chicks is probably to protect them from sin. If you still think I am missing the mark tell me what you were hinting at.
You're missing the context and the meaning altogether. The Roman Vultures are circling above, God's judgment is pending for their rebellion against him. It has nothing to do with salvation from sin, but of salvation from judgment. In 70 a.d. Jerusalem was sacked.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,041
295
83
#23
Gathered for salvation, what else?
It's "what else" salvation from something other, and has nothing to do with salvation from sin in a salvation go to heaven sense. But, the truth of the text would destroy your presupposed free willy doctrine. Can't have truth do that now, can you?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
856
83
28
#24
All you've proved is Man choosing against God, or choosing after God already chose him.

Where is the proof that Man has EVER "freely" willed himself right into God's grace?

I can show you lots of proof that has never happened.

But, you first!

D...,

Suggest study of the following as well as intent in other scriptures;

Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

John 1:12-13 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (Read More...)

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Read More...)

Genesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (Read More...)

James 1:13-16 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (Read More...)

Galatians 5:16-17 - [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Read More...)

2 Timothy 2:26 - And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)

Psalms 37:23 - The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Proverbs 16:1 - The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [is] from the LORD.

Mark 8:34 - And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

1 Timothy 2:4 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G-d gives each of us ...FREE WILL...to chose our path in life. I have found nothing in scriptures where G-d requires us to commit to His laws in order to breathe His oxygen. He only tells us of the result if we don't.....a choice provided for us.
 
Last edited:

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,721
481
83
#25
No person's will in a this fallen world is completely free

Sin makes a completely free will impossible

The concept of free will is not scriptural it is philosophical in its origin


D...,

Suggest study of the following as well as intent in other scriptures;

Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

John 1:12-13 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (Read More...)

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Read More...)

Genesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (Read More...)

James 1:13-16 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (Read More...)

Galatians 5:16-17 - [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Read More...)

2 Timothy 2:26 - And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)

Psalms 37:23 - The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Proverbs 16:1 - The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [is] from the LORD.

Mark 8:34 - And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

1 Timothy 2:4 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G-d gives each of us ...FREE WILL...to chose our path in life. I have found nothing in scriptures where G-d requires us to commit to His laws in order to breathe His oxygen. He only tells us of the result if we don't.....a choice provided for us.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#26
Do you believe God is the author of sin? Was it Judas' fault he betrayed Our Lord or was it God's fault?
It was God's plan to use Judas to betray him, just as it was God's plan to use, and then destroy Pharaoh to get his people out of Egypt. No idea what this "author of sin" trip your on is about.

Second request for your proof.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#27
D...,

Suggest study of the following as well as intent in other scriptures;

Proverbs 16:9 - A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Revelation 3:20 - Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 10:13 - There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

John 1:12-13 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (Read More...)

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Read More...)

Genesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (Read More...)

James 1:13-16 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (Read More...)

Galatians 5:16-17 - [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Read More...)

2 Timothy 2:26 - And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Romans 10:9-10 - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Read More...)

Psalms 37:23 - The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

Proverbs 16:1 - The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, [is] from the LORD.

Mark 8:34 - And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

1 Timothy 2:4 - Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

G-d gives each of us ...FREE WILL...to chose our path in life. I have found nothing in scriptures where G-d requires us to commit to His laws in order to breathe His oxygen. He only tells us of the result if we don't.....a choice provided for us.
Good choice to pull them out of content. Content would disprove your own choices.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
61
48
#28
Not at all. Does the word "come" mean a call? And does "whosoever" mean anyone and everyone without exception?

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17)
Okay, whosoever means everyone as in Acts 2:39 ESV “For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

or the NJKV
For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

He still calls them to come, weather it is by the Spirit or by the bride, the Lord has to call them to salvation. No one saves themselves it is the Lord that begins the good work and He completes it as well. Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.”

N6 here is what I do not understand about you, why are you so bent on making man the one that begins salvation. That's kicking against the Scriptures,

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7
so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3:4-7 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Look at the beauty of these Scriptures He saved us because of the great love He has for us, why? That He might show the immeasurable richness of His grace towards us, how? By His grace we have been justified by grace and we continue in that grace by faith, because? It is God's gift for us not by anything we have done in righteousness, but it is all according to His own mercy. How beuatiful is this gift to His children and for some reason you want to cheapen it to be about us being the ones that bring about salvation for ourselves, taking all the glory that is the Lord and claiming it your man.

My Brother when I think about all those that have this thing to make salvation by man and not God, sure God is part of it, but it is not His to give, it is man to take, remember the Psalm 3:8 Salvation belongs to the Lord;your blessing be on your people! Selah

Salvation belongs to the Lord, it is His to give to whoever He wills and no man can take it from Him for himself, if the Father does not grant it to him or without the Spirit giving them life. Salvation is by the Lord and the Lord alone.




 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
3,106
330
83
#29
It started with the choice Adam and Eve made in the garden,
due to the pride of life, lust of the eyes, and lust of the flesh,
and it is still the same today, for we all inherit their nature.

I prefer the term self will, though :)
Self will / free will .. They mean the same thing.. Simply the ability of a person to make their own decision..
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#30
I believe in predestination. That is when God predestines someone to persevere to the end. I do not believe in double predestination where the damned are sent hell because it was the will of God. This would make God the author of evil.
Election and predestination deals with salvation, not reprobation.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#31
More nonsense from one who cannot use Scripture to refute what was shown. So once again, vicious personal attacks. Typical of the so-called "elect".

Oh, my brethren! bold-hearted men are always called mean-spirited by cowards. - Charles Spurgeon
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,824
121
63
#32
If we don't have free will, then God is responsible for sin, whereby, God cannot be righteous. Everyone has a choice, everyone makes decisions, so of course we can all do as we will. It is not God's will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), that's our choice.... jmo
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
18,995
1,461
113
#33
Here's one example for starters, and the Bible is full of them. When the Gospel is preached with the power of the Holy Spirit behind it, then many respond to the Gospel freely -- not under compulsion.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Who pricked their hearts?

Why had they not already joined the disciples previously? They weren't ignorant - were their hearts not previously pricked? How did that come about?

Seems to me that they are responding to something, not initiating something, and that something perhaps supernatural had extraordinarily persuaded them.
 
Last edited:

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#34
If we don't have free will, then God is responsible for sin, whereby, God cannot be righteous.

God is not responsible for anyone's sin. Here's some verses to chew on...

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."[Matthew 6:24]

If you are lost, you are a slave to sin and Satan. If you are saved, you are a slave to the Christ. Paul even used the words Christos Duolos.

"For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—"[Romans 6:6]

"Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"[Romans 6:16]

Slaves to sin are not free, but in bondage to it.

Everyone has a choice, everyone makes decisions, so of course we can all do as we will. It is not God's will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), that's our choice.... jmo
Everyone makes choices all the time. Whether to wear a brown belt and black shoes, plaid pants with a checkered shirt, socks with their sandals, ice cream or pickles. But that does not mean they possess a free will.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#35
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.[John 8:35,36]

The only true freedom ppl have is found in Christ. Those who are lost are outside of the Christ, and therefore, they can not have a free will.

because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[SUP] [/SUP]free from the law of sin and death.[Romans 8:2]

Unless the Lord sets one free, their will is in bondage to sin and Satan. Only God can set one free from the law of sin and death.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
61
48
#36
If we don't have free will, then God is responsible for sin, whereby, God cannot be righteous. Everyone has a choice, everyone makes decisions, so of course we can all do as we will. It is not God's will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), that's our choice.... jmo
Do you have any Scripture for that or is this just your philosophy? You are right we all have choices, I can get fries with my burger if I want or so will, but no man can chose salvation.

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

I Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”

II Corinthians 4:3-4 “And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”

Ephesians 4:17-19
Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds.18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity.”

Ephesians 5:7-8
Therefore do not become partners with them;8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light”


You are right all men are responsible for their own sins. hn 3:18-20
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.”
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
38
48
#37
Satan had already had influence on Eve before she took of the fruit and ate., by telling her that God was a liar about the consequences of eating the fruit. She turned against God that very moment because she had made up in her mind that she was going to eat the fruit, no matter what. She lost her faith in God,because she believed Satan.,and said "I will". Not knowing the trouble ahead for this action. That saying, that the devil made me do it fits well. He made Eve turn against God.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
172
63
#38
Satan had already had influence on Eve before she took of the fruit and ate., by telling her that God was a liar about the consequences of eating the fruit. She turned against God that very moment because she had made up in her mind that she was going to eat the fruit, no matter what. She lost her faith in God,because she believed Satan.,and said "I will". Not knowing the trouble ahead for this action. That saying, that the devil made me do it fits well. He made Eve turn against God.
He most certainly did not make Eve do anything of the sort. He tricked her and she freely ate. This 'the devil made me do it' is just a cop out for man's sin. Ppl freely sin, just as Eve freely sinned.

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.[Genesis 3:6]

Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.[James 1:15]

Eve lusted/desired after the ToK, and once it(lust/desire) was conceived, it lead to sin, and then sin lead to death. They died spiritually right then and there, and the sentence of physical death was also pronounced on them and their posterity. She desired the ToK, because she fell for the lie of the serpent. But she freely ate, the serpent did not make her sin.
 
Last edited:

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
61
48
#39
That saying, that the devil made me do it fits well.
]This 'the devil made me do it' is just a cop out for man's sin.
Wow that saying takes me back to when I was a kid and a comedy show my dad used to watch. It was called the Filp Wilson Show, he dressed like a black Church lady, it was drag but they cleaned it up by using a Church lady and she would say "the devil made me do it" or "here come tha judge" that show was so popular that one of the car companies name one of their muscle cars, "The Judge" man that was over 50 years ago.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,721
481
83
#40
I agree that God is not responsible for sin and I agree God has given us a will independent of His own.

However, when people use the term free will, it is the word free that is defining/describing the will.

In classical Greek philosophy this means that our will is unencumbered by any other determinants in life completely at all times.

It really is not a scriptural concept.



If we don't have free will, then God is responsible for sin, whereby, God cannot be righteous. Everyone has a choice, everyone makes decisions, so of course we can all do as we will. It is not God's will that any should perish (2 Peter 3:9), that's our choice.... jmo