"Scriptural Truth" : an experiment
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I already answered your scenarios in another thread, so my answer has not changed. But concerning those who walk after the flesh and live in ongoing sin as you claim being "free in Christ" you do greatly err from the Truth. A person who is truly born of God and has been set free by Jesus Christ has also been set free from the bondage of sin and death, therefore they are no longer walking after the flesh as you suggest, but after the Spirit and in righteousness that leads to eternal life.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
this thread is an experiment to test scientifically the following hypothesis:
so here's some scriptural truth as a test unit:
please respond naturally, just as you would with any other thread in this section of the forum.
thanks for your participation
so here's some scriptural truth as a test unit:
when we are faithless, He remains faithful
(from 2 Timothy 2:13)
please respond naturally, just as you would with any other thread in this section of the forum.
thanks for your participation
I already answered your scenarios in another thread, so my answer has not changed. But concerning those who walk after the flesh and live in ongoing sin as you claim being "free in Christ" you do greatly err from the Truth. A person who is truly born of God and has been set free by Jesus Christ has also been set free from the bondage of sin and death, therefore they are no longer walking after the flesh as you suggest, but after the Spirit and in righteousness that leads to eternal life.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
This is not the gospel of the grace of Christ...you greatly err as Jesus says "not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God".
All people who struggle in the flesh are not in Christ according to your religion. This is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Your religion has these 2 types of struggling Christians in post #13 below going to hell.
Here are the 2 types of people ( there are many other types of Christians struggling with things of the flesh too ) that you are condemning with your "application" of scripture.
Post #12
Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )
So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years - like a minister that they didn't like. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?...in your thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?
Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?
These 2 scenarios above would be people "living after the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't grown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).
These 2 groups of people in your theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?
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I always get tickled at how you guys try so hard to entrap and misrepresent what we actually say. And then you change your line of questioning by suggesting something we did not say by saying "So you are saying...." LOL But we never said what you suggest or imply, that is very evil indeed. This whole line of questioning is evil because it is meant to entrap, even by twisting our words and trying to misrepresent our views. Even your wording above has now changed to those who are now trying to overcome the flesh, instead of those who are just walking in the flesh, or living to the flesh and to sin. As there is a difference between trying to overcome sin and turning from your wicked ways, and those who just turn back to wickedness from previously walking in righteousness.
But so you don't twist my words any more, I will post scripture as to what my theology teaches (though it's not my own)
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezekiel 33:12
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:19
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
I'm done with your little entrapment game.
But so you don't twist my words any more, I will post scripture as to what my theology teaches (though it's not my own)
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezekiel 33:12
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:19
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
I'm done with your little entrapment game.
I already answered your scenarios in another thread, so my answer has not changed. But concerning those who walk after the flesh and live in ongoing sin as you claim being "free in Christ" you do greatly err from the Truth. A person who is truly born of God and has been set free by Jesus Christ has also been set free from the bondage of sin and death, therefore they are no longer walking after the flesh as you suggest, but after the Spirit and in righteousness that leads to eternal life.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
Those who sin and walk after the flesh are not truly in Christ, even though they may think they are.
Don't you understand that their are many born again believers who have no Bible, no church, and no one to disciple them? Sad, but true. It would be easy for such a person to walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit. Heck, I read and study the word daily, have many great accountability friends in my life, a church to go to, saved family and friends and I still struggle daily with walking after this ole flesh.
I always get tickled at how you guys try so hard to entrap and misrepresent what we actually say. And then you change your line of questioning by suggesting something we did not say by saying "So you are saying...." LOL But we never said what you suggest or imply, that is very evil indeed. This whole line of questioning is evil because it is meant to entrap, even by twisting our words and trying to misrepresent our views. Even your wording above has now changed to those who are now trying to overcome the flesh, instead of those who are just walking in the flesh, or living to the flesh and to sin. As there is a difference between trying to overcome sin and turning from your wicked ways, and those who just turn back to wickedness from previously walking in righteousness.
But so you don't twist my words no more I will post scripture as to what my theology teaches (though it's not my own)
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezekiel 33:12
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:19
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
I'm done with your little entrapment game.
But so you don't twist my words no more I will post scripture as to what my theology teaches (though it's not my own)
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezekiel 33:12
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:19
But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
I'm done with your little entrapment game.
So, what if we interpreted those scriptures in light of the finished work of Christ now that we are in the New Covenant and we are a new creation in Christ created in righteousness and holiness? All those Ezekiel scriptures need to be looked at in light of we are now - the righteousness of God in Christ.
As far as living after the flesh in Romans 8:13 ..if someone for some stupid reason took up shooting heroin - there is a good chance they will die early in life.
How you walk according to the flesh will determine the quality of life you have here on this earth. This applies for all works of the flesh. Cheat on your wife and you might wake up dead. We can walk by the spirit and not fulfill "it's" lusts - ie the flesh ....but here's the good news...
...you are still in Christ in your inner man. You are still sealed with the Holy Spirit. Isn't that good news? That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ. Exciting isn't it? What a great salvation we have in our good, loving Lord Jesus!
Romans 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
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"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
What part of me is "in Christ"? My inner man, my soul, right? My flesh is not in Christ yet. My flesh has not yet been redeemed. That's what I've been predestined for now I'm in Christ. My destination is set. I'm guaranteed the adoption will take place. I will be changed. This flesh will become incorruptible. But, in the meantime, I am instructed not to grieve the Holy Spirit with disobedient, carnal living. I am instructed to renew my mind daily to help remind me who I am and what I am to be doing. Failure to do so may lead to carnal, worldly living.
What part of me is "in Christ"? My inner man, my soul, right? My flesh is not in Christ yet. My flesh has not yet been redeemed. That's what I've been predestined for now I'm in Christ. My destination is set. I'm guaranteed the adoption will take place. I will be changed. This flesh will become incorruptible. But, in the meantime, I am instructed not to grieve the Holy Spirit with disobedient, carnal living. I am instructed to renew my mind daily to help remind me who I am and what I am to be doing. Failure to do so may lead to carnal, worldly living.
this thread is an experiment to test scientifically the following hypothesis:
so here's some scriptural truth as a test unit:
please respond naturally, just as you would with any other thread in this section of the forum.
thanks for your participation
so here's some scriptural truth as a test unit:
when we are faithless, He remains faithful
(from 2 Timothy 2:13)
please respond naturally, just as you would with any other thread in this section of the forum.
thanks for your participation
If we agree with that person on most issues,then the scriptures they use will get a like,and If we disagree with the persons standing on most Issues,then their post will be lightly regarded,even though the scripture In and of Itself Is true.
Well I suppose letting everyone know it's an experimental test could make it less effect but another thing is you need a scriptureal truth that is not so commonly seen as obvious truth
when we are faithless, He remains faithful this is a truth that very few Christians would disagree with so you need a scriptural truth that would not be so commonly seen as truth but you also have the main issue that it isn't truth people are against it's the interpretation of the truth they are against
when we are faithless, He remains faithful this is a truth that very few Christians would disagree with so you need a scriptural truth that would not be so commonly seen as truth but you also have the main issue that it isn't truth people are against it's the interpretation of the truth they are against