Scripture only?
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K
There are many writings called 'gospels'. Paul talks about fake apostles with other gospels, as you say. We use these four because we believe they are inspired. Believing that these four are the ones we should use, is a tradition for all Christians.
It's all in how you use the word. You use "Gospel" to mean the true good news of Jesus Christ. Some people use it to mean any book called a gospel. What we were trying to do is realize there are different ways to use the word. Geometar has some traditions he believes are of God; other people think he is wrong. I'm trying to find a way we can agree on how to tell what is right or wrong tradition, so we can all find out if Geometar is right.
It's not exactly true that "any" change would make is a different Gospel. What if I just took the Gospel of Luke, for instance, and left out the list of Jesus' ancestors? That would be a change, but it would hardly make the rest of Luke wrong. Mark and John don't list any ancestors, and Matthew has different ones. See, the problem is how far can you change something before it becomes a "different gospel".
It's all in how you use the word. You use "Gospel" to mean the true good news of Jesus Christ. Some people use it to mean any book called a gospel. What we were trying to do is realize there are different ways to use the word. Geometar has some traditions he believes are of God; other people think he is wrong. I'm trying to find a way we can agree on how to tell what is right or wrong tradition, so we can all find out if Geometar is right.
It's not exactly true that "any" change would make is a different Gospel. What if I just took the Gospel of Luke, for instance, and left out the list of Jesus' ancestors? That would be a change, but it would hardly make the rest of Luke wrong. Mark and John don't list any ancestors, and Matthew has different ones. See, the problem is how far can you change something before it becomes a "different gospel".
E
I see where the difference is.
When paul said there is no other gospel. and if anyone teach a gospel which is different let him be accursed. he was not speaking of the four gospels. he was speaking of the gospel I am speaking off. the means to salvation.
I think the 4 books mentioned are gospel in name only because they give us an eyewitness acount of why the gospel (means to eternal life) are valid and how it was paid for.
When paul said there is no other gospel. and if anyone teach a gospel which is different let him be accursed. he was not speaking of the four gospels. he was speaking of the gospel I am speaking off. the means to salvation.
I think the 4 books mentioned are gospel in name only because they give us an eyewitness acount of why the gospel (means to eternal life) are valid and how it was paid for.
I dont understand why some "Christians" have fear from word "Tradition"?It really looks like a primal fear.Tradition will provide u to use the same service or same interpretations of Bible as our ancestors done that before 500-1000 or 2000years.How we could be the same Church if we all would use our own different interpretations of Bible or Church service.
Orthodox interpretations of Bible are pastiric ones,written before 1500years or older.In fact,everything that is in use at Orthodox Church is from the 1st 8centuries of Church.Cannons of the Church are same and unchanged from that time.Those cannons were written to establish win over heresy and to gather all people under 1 Church.
Now,if someone scare's of them,who is he then?I understand that peoples have no idea what happened at Early Church and at 2000years of her history.Many just know history old 500years.
Orthodox interpretations of Bible are pastiric ones,written before 1500years or older.In fact,everything that is in use at Orthodox Church is from the 1st 8centuries of Church.Cannons of the Church are same and unchanged from that time.Those cannons were written to establish win over heresy and to gather all people under 1 Church.
Now,if someone scare's of them,who is he then?I understand that peoples have no idea what happened at Early Church and at 2000years of her history.Many just know history old 500years.
Men traditions (are they wrong? I do not think they are wrong I just want to point out traditions.)
Lords Prayer Doxology is not in the original scriptures
"For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever"
The Sinner's prayer not in scripture is it.
Infant dedications (in leu of infant baptism)
Tithing should not be given under compulsion or coercion
Not praying the Lords prayer (this where the same words Jesus used to teach us to pray)
Bow heads and close eyes to pray
Refusing to kneel (At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow)
Lords Prayer Doxology is not in the original scriptures
"For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever"
The Sinner's prayer not in scripture is it.
Infant dedications (in leu of infant baptism)
Tithing should not be given under compulsion or coercion
Not praying the Lords prayer (this where the same words Jesus used to teach us to pray)
Bow heads and close eyes to pray
Refusing to kneel (At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow)
I agree that the Bible is simply a small portion of The Word of God.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
I believe the Bible is like a mustard seeds worth of the Word of God, and many simply do not want to hear or understand what it says. It's about hearing the voice of God. Thanks for the post.
Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
If a person knows that something is The Word of God, then it's known, and it is. If a person believes that something is The Word of God, then they may be wrong, but if they truly believe it is and live according to it, then God will help them if they're truly wanting to die.
Col_2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col_3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
I believe the Bible is like a mustard seeds worth of the Word of God, and many simply do not want to hear or understand what it says. It's about hearing the voice of God. Thanks for the post.
Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
If a person knows that something is The Word of God, then it's known, and it is. If a person believes that something is The Word of God, then they may be wrong, but if they truly believe it is and live according to it, then God will help them if they're truly wanting to die.
Col_2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col_3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
I agree with this to some extent. Some people refuse to see how a tradition may not be spelled out for their understanding so they refuse to accept them. We must discern this traditions, but we can not discern all the traditions in one day or week. This does not allow the person to receive the power of God over men, and sometimes blinds them in a way that they never see the truth.
I do not claim I have the truth, I am always searching and discerning. Thats why we are here aren't we?
I do not claim I have the truth, I am always searching and discerning. Thats why we are here aren't we?
Like an answer i must ask a question.
If Protestants use this,why that "Spirit" do not speak to all of u the same things,but contradict?Why there r thousands different Churches and preachers and some prophets?
On the other side,u have 1(ONE) Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church,same and unchanged 2000years.There were millions of Monks for that time who read Bible,do their prayers and seek for wisdom.No one of them didnt made his own moverment(Church) and if he try that,that was start of heresy.No one wasnt killed for that,but called to repent.Because of some that were called Ecumenical Councils and holy fathers from all over the world came to take their participación in them.All Church rulles were established on them,at 1st 8centuries of the Church.
Orthodox Church still use the same rulles,same service,same prayers and same tradition as were used at that time.
If Protestants use this,why that "Spirit" do not speak to all of u the same things,but contradict?Why there r thousands different Churches and preachers and some prophets?
On the other side,u have 1(ONE) Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church,same and unchanged 2000years.There were millions of Monks for that time who read Bible,do their prayers and seek for wisdom.No one of them didnt made his own moverment(Church) and if he try that,that was start of heresy.No one wasnt killed for that,but called to repent.Because of some that were called Ecumenical Councils and holy fathers from all over the world came to take their participación in them.All Church rulles were established on them,at 1st 8centuries of the Church.
Orthodox Church still use the same rulles,same service,same prayers and same tradition as were used at that time.
K
Here is the answer from post #49:
Reading the bible and praying to the Lord. Asking for Wisdom, Knowledge and Discernment...
I do not reject it, but it is a circular argument for those who agree with the new definition, as these are traditions proper to only some parts of Christianity. In some parts of Christianity, the statements of the Bible, and the definitions and results of wisdom and discernment are instead left to certain early writers. That is not the same tradition of how to answer these questions. As it stands now, we have a standoff. Some of us are advocating post 49, as you. Others are advocating the tradition of learning from these early writers. Each says they get affirmation for what they believe when they pray. I am hoping we can go further back, and determine how much truth there is to either position.
In regard to the statement in this post, both groups of Christianity feel that their respective tradition is in agreement with the Word of God, as they read it differently, having been taught to do so by different writers.
Reading the bible and praying to the Lord. Asking for Wisdom, Knowledge and Discernment...
I do not reject it, but it is a circular argument for those who agree with the new definition, as these are traditions proper to only some parts of Christianity. In some parts of Christianity, the statements of the Bible, and the definitions and results of wisdom and discernment are instead left to certain early writers. That is not the same tradition of how to answer these questions. As it stands now, we have a standoff. Some of us are advocating post 49, as you. Others are advocating the tradition of learning from these early writers. Each says they get affirmation for what they believe when they pray. I am hoping we can go further back, and determine how much truth there is to either position.
In regard to the statement in this post, both groups of Christianity feel that their respective tradition is in agreement with the Word of God, as they read it differently, having been taught to do so by different writers.
K
WHAT!!....[GOD does not need the bible to reveal truth to us ! But when He does it ccmfirmed in the bible ! Listen salvation is by faith and what JESUS did for Us !]
God reviels himself to us three ways:
Through his order in creation.
His Truth/Word...the bible
Through the holy Spirit.
We are to test the word with the Spirit, and text the Spirit with the word.
Even Satan can quote scripture, and he is better at it than we are.
God reviels himself to us three ways:
Through his order in creation.
His Truth/Word...the bible
Through the holy Spirit.
We are to test the word with the Spirit, and text the Spirit with the word.
Even Satan can quote scripture, and he is better at it than we are.
E
being an orthodox and I am sure knowing latin. i am suprised you would say this.
Rapture comes from the latin word meaning to be caught up, to Carry away, or to sieze,
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (rapture) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
whether you believe it happens pre-trib, mid trib, post trib, or post millennial, you have to believe in a rapture. because God said he will come back for his people and rapture, or catch them up in the sky, to be with him forever.
you people also use a man made word. ever heard the word trinity? it has less proof that rapture does, because it is actually in the bible.. yet we both believe its doctrine is true.
Guess those inspirations for the men of your church are not perfect after all are they??
Rapture comes from the latin word meaning to be caught up, to Carry away, or to sieze,
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (rapture) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
whether you believe it happens pre-trib, mid trib, post trib, or post millennial, you have to believe in a rapture. because God said he will come back for his people and rapture, or catch them up in the sky, to be with him forever.
you people also use a man made word. ever heard the word trinity? it has less proof that rapture does, because it is actually in the bible.. yet we both believe its doctrine is true.
Guess those inspirations for the men of your church are not perfect after all are they??
Rock022, My wife always asks me why is it all read the same Bible but all do not agree! There are more than 2020 variations of churches. Dinominations they call it. And what did God say.... There should be ONENESS.
In the CHURCH OF CHRIST there is not even two minds, or two spirits, or two interpretations.... In the Church of Christ God gives us the guarentee that there is ONE ONE ONE ONE.. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
I have found right here on CC that there is not even ONE HOPE OF OUR CALLING here! SAD, but fortunately God warned us about this..... MANY WILL FOLLOW FALSE TEACHERS.... Not the elect, for they shall KNOW THE TRUTH, and the TRUTH SHALL MAKE THEM FREE.
My friend I always advize people to KNOW the WORD OF GOD well, it is HIS TRUTH (John 17:17) and the Truth shall make you free from all these false teachings and doctrines of devils! Do you know how many people called seducing evil spirits the Holy Spirit? PLENTY! and that is how succesful those seducing spirits are with false doctrins (teachings). Good luck discerning which is which. The Truth of God shows them out clearly!
Twisting and turning God's Word to suit there sinful ways. Saying things so against scripture that they do not realize how they will pay for that one day. I pity those that does not get the Word REVEALED, but have to interpret it.
In the CHURCH OF CHRIST there is not even two minds, or two spirits, or two interpretations.... In the Church of Christ God gives us the guarentee that there is ONE ONE ONE ONE.. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
I have found right here on CC that there is not even ONE HOPE OF OUR CALLING here! SAD, but fortunately God warned us about this..... MANY WILL FOLLOW FALSE TEACHERS.... Not the elect, for they shall KNOW THE TRUTH, and the TRUTH SHALL MAKE THEM FREE.
My friend I always advize people to KNOW the WORD OF GOD well, it is HIS TRUTH (John 17:17) and the Truth shall make you free from all these false teachings and doctrines of devils! Do you know how many people called seducing evil spirits the Holy Spirit? PLENTY! and that is how succesful those seducing spirits are with false doctrins (teachings). Good luck discerning which is which. The Truth of God shows them out clearly!
Twisting and turning God's Word to suit there sinful ways. Saying things so against scripture that they do not realize how they will pay for that one day. I pity those that does not get the Word REVEALED, but have to interpret it.