Scriptures refuting the doctrine of eternal security

[Sinsear]

If the belief that ''if they left us then they were not of us'' is wrong then explain this verse.

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they were of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out so that it might be revealed that they were not all of us. 1Jn 2:20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know the truth.


Also...if we can lose our salvation then why does peter say this?...

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled, and unfading, reserved in Heaven for you

I do not believe in in osas but i do believe in preserverance of the saints. If god predestined who would be saved then how can it be our choice. We are basically saying that god is controled by our choices eliminating his omnipotence. I dont know about you but when i say god did all the work, then im giving him all the glory. But when i say it was my choice, then i wouldnt be saved if it wasnt for me. God gives us the faith, and grace that we need in order to be saved. Otherwise we wouldnt even search for god. Dont believe me? then read romans chapters 1, 2 , and 3. Were all paul talks about is how depraved and unable we are to even search for god. I may be wrong in my view but in the end, im giving god all the glory with this belief because i can truly say that im saved by his power, grace and love and not by anything i said on/or did. I wouldnt have believed unless he gave me faith. It was him. Thats were faith and repentance comes from. Not of our choice. We are completely dead in sin which means we cant ask or even want life. If i die i cannot ask god to revive me, he needs to do it for me if he wills it. Same thing spiritually. We dont get it because we ask for it, we ask for it because we already have it (if we are truly asking sincerely). If you want to repent then god already put it in your heart and your action is just the evidence of that. I hope i didnt offend anyone but this what i believe and i can back it all up with scripture.
And please be openminded about what im saying, dont just ignore it or disagree without studying it first. God bless.

 

[BLC]

As a believer we are crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20). We have been buried with Him unto death (Rom 6:4) and in the grave and raised with Him in the resurrection (Col 2:12). We died with Him, we were buried with Him and we were raised with Him, having made us sit together, with Him, in heavenly places (Eph 2:6).

Eph 2:5-8 'Even when we were dead in sins,(dead in sins, dead in sins, dead in sins) hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God'.

(the action verbs in verses 5&6 are in the aorist tense / active voice / indicative mood; meaning that the action has already taken place though the work of God upon the believer and it is a fact for the believer to rest in)

All of this is God's work. How can we, who believe, be seated together in heavenly places in Christ, unless God put us there? He put us there when we were dead in sins. By doing this when we were dead in sins, how can our sins take away what God has done? It can't happen! It was by grace through faith and not by our sins, that God seated us together. It is to the glory of God and not that we would glory in ourselves for any of it. If God was going to remove us from where He seated us, He would have to remove us the same way He seated us. Is God going to remove us with the same grace He seated us with? We all deserve hell, but we believe upon the one who has justified us before God by removing everything that would have condemned us. We are justified by grace and not by whether we sin or not. Do you get it?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Very well that is all true for those who have faith are seated in the heavenlys. What if they don't have faith.
What happened to Judas Iscariot? He was unseated from his place of one of the twelve, wasn't he? Or did Judas go to heaven.

Are we still saved by grace if we don't have faith, if we don't trust in Christ but in keeping the Law (eg circumcisionetc) aka falling from grace.

 

[BLC]

Quote; 'I have said time and time again, it is not our perfection or lack of that stops us getting into heaven, sins are covered by the blood of Christ.. but lack of faith'.

What kind of authority are you giving to personal faith, that could determine the eternal destiny of a believer? If I have faith toward God then I have eternal life active in me. If I turn away from God, through a lack of faith, then that eternal life is no longer active in me and is taken from me because of my unbelief? The only way a believer can continue to be a believer and be sure of his salvation is to be having faith toward God at all times and if I lack faith, at any time, I lose what I received by faith. That is what you are saying, right?

When we receive Christ, God gives us a gift of perfect righteousness. This perfect righteousness is God's righteousness and not our own. This perfect righteousness was imputed to us when we believed. When God looks at the believer, He sees His perfect righteousness. He relates to us and has a relationship with us based on that perfect righteousness. If I sin, can my personal sin destroy or eliminate the righteousness of God that was given and imputed to me when I first believed? You will say that because of my lack of faith that I can turn from righteousness, but do the scriptures teach that God will take back the gift of His own righteousness even if I did turn from it and the work of that righteousness which is peace (Is 32:17,18)? You have said that my sin (or lack of perfection) will not stop me from getting to heaven or remove the righteousness of God from me but my lack of faith will.

So what do we do with (2Tim 2:13) that says; 'If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself'. Compare the following verses.

2Cor 5:21 'For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him'.

Col 1:27 'To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory'.

Is not Christ the 'author and finisher' of our faith and not the 'author and ender' of it in (Heb 12:2)?
Heb 13:5 … 'I will never leave thee or forsake thee'. There are three negatives before the verb leave making it a triple assurance...'I will not, I will not, I will not'...

Can our lack of personal faith remove the righteousness of God in us, and if not, do we take it with us to hell to be with the unrighteous and the corrupt? But (Psalm 16:10) says; 'For thou will not leave my soul in hell, neither will thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption'.

 

[MahogonySnail]

What kind of authority are you giving to personal faith, that could determine the eternal destiny of a believer? If I have faith toward God then I have eternal life active in me. If I turn away from God, through a lack of faith, then that eternal life is no longer active in me and is taken from me because of my unbelief? The only way a believer can continue to be a believer and be sure of his salvation is to be having faith toward God at all times and if I lack faith, at any time, I lose what I received by faith. That is what you are saying, right?

I think it's simple logic, that if you are a believer and don't have faith, you are not a believer, but an unbeliever lol.

But no, we all have doubts from time to time that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a complete loss of faith ie apostasy. It implies intent and will to turn from Christ.

I get that belief from this scripture:

Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, fear lest He also may not spare you either!

Rom 11:23 And those also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in. For God is able to graft them in again.


Now you'll forgive me for consulting the People's New Testament (PNT) bible commentary won't you, in case I read it wrong:

Because of unbelief they were broken off. Had they believed, they would have remained. The Gentile is grafted in when he believes.

Thou standest by faith. Unbelief would cut off the Gentile branch as well as the Jew.

For if God spared not the natural branches, the Jews, but broke them off on account of their unbelief, certainly he would not spare the Gentile, not a natural branch, if he was an unbeliever.

Behold, therefore, the goodness and severity of God. "Severity" is shown in breaking off the Jewish branches on account of their unbelief; "goodness," in admitting Gentile believers.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief. As Gentile believers will be cut off unless they "continue in the goodness of God," so the Jews, if they abandon their unbelief, shall again be grafted in. They are not cut off by a decree of God casting them away, but by their own unbelief.

For if thou, etc. This argument is to the Gentile. If wild branches were grafted into the good olive tree, the Gentiles grafted into the spiritual stock of Abraham, how much more likely is it that the natural branches, the Jews, shall be grafted again into their own olive tree, the seed of Abraham to which they belong by nature.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Or if I quoted the wrong bible commentary because it isn't correct, allow me quote Barnes commentary ( I highlighted important bits in blue for emphasis)


Thou standest by faith - The continuance of these mercies to you depends on your fidelity. If you are faithful, they will be preserved; if, like the Jews, you become unbelieving and unfruitful, like them you will be also rejected. This fact should repress boasting, and excite to anxiety and caution.
Be not high-minded - Do not be elated in the conception of your privileges, so as to produce vain self-confidence and boasting.

But fear - This fear stands opposed to the spirit of boasting and self-confidence, against which he was exhorting them. It does not mean terror or horror, but it denotes humility, watchfulness, and solicitude to abide in the faith. Do not be haughty and high-minded against the Jew, who has been cast off, but "demean yourself as a humble believer, and one who has need to be continually on his guard, and to fear lest he may fall through unbelief, and be cast off." (Stuart.) We may here learn,
(1) That there is danger lest those who are raised to eminent privileges should become unduly exalted in their own estimation, and despise others.

(2) the tendency of faith is to promote humility and a sense of our dependence on God.

(3) the system of salvation by faith produces that solicitude, and careful guarding, and watchfulness, which is necessary to preserve us from apostasy and ruin.

 

[LynnJ]

'Nuff said from me on this topic. I love all of you, and I'm now headed over to the chat room.