Separating the Clean from UnClean Food!

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
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#41
Who gave Moses "The Dietary Law"? We will do a strange work which is seldom done today. We will allow the scripture to be our guide to answer that question, along with a few others that need to be addressed. After finding out who gave this law to Moses, we should have no problem following it, if we call ourselves Christians. Remember brothers and sisters Jesus, states in Matthew 5 and verse 18, "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." We still have the heavens and the earth, correct? Those things indicate that the Lord's law still remains in tact. Those that read the Bible know that all has not been fulfilled, so His laws and statutes must be kept. In addition, we must also look at verses that some individuals think the subject in that particular verse or chapter is dealing with the "Dietary Law" when in fact has nothing to do with it. Those individuals try to uses Paul's writings to come to that conclusion. (As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. II Peter 3:16) The unquestionable fact is that the law of sacrifice was nailed to the cross, which was our schoolmaster to bring us onto Christ. Now, let’s see who gave the "Dietary Law" to Moses and the rest of the Children of Israel.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, these are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.” (Leviticus 11:1-2)

So, who spoke unto Moses and Aaron? The LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying, "These are the beasts which ye shall eat." Was this the Father? Well, let's allow the book show us. Take a Look at this verse in St. John chapter one. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

Note the verse says, "No man hath seen God at any time." Therefore, that covers all time correct. If no man has seen God at anytime who is this?

And he said unto Moses, “Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.” (Exodus 24:1)

We see in the above verse, Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy of the elders were told to come up unto the Lord and worship. Let's skip to the 9th verse and see what happen when these 74 Israelites arrive on top of the mount.

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. (Exodus 24:9-11)

Clearly the verse states, "They saw the God of Israel." The verse doesn't say it was a vision. But, St. John chapter one states, "No man has seen God at anytime.” Before we return to the Book of John and find out which God no man has seen at anytime, note what the next verse states.

And the LORD said unto Moses, “Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” (Exodus 24:12)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let's find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let us find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)
So, who is the God that hasn't been seen? The Father himself, ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Now, let's see who this God is that the seventy four elders saw in mount Horeb. Let us go to I Corinthians the tenth chapter and start at verse one.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (I Corinthians 10:1-4)

So, who was the God in the Mountain that gave Moses the Law? That God was CHRIST! Let's return to the fifth chapter of John and see who's name Christ came in. I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

So, you see brothers and sister “Jesus” in the Fathers name. I would be real careful when it comes to the name of Jesus. Now we see that Jesus Christ is the God that gave the commandments to Moses. We should have no problem doing what He says if we call ourselves followers of Christ.
We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.
a if we look to what Jesus taught we can see the truth

“And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:18

what food we eat has zero impact but what we do what comes out of us that is what matters if we treat people right we’re accepted if we treat people wrong we need to repent and do right by them in Jesus name

corrupt thinking makes us unclean , doing evil makes us unclean whether we eat a pork chop has no effect because it’s about the flesh it’s not about the spirit
 

VARob

Active member
Dec 21, 2020
633
179
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#42
Yep it does starts further up....Then came to Jesus the Scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.” (Matthew 15:1-2)

Note what verse the states, "they wash not their hands when they eat bread." We see the subject is, eating without washing hands correct? Note something else in the above verse. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?” Note the Lord's response; But he answered and said unto them, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.” (Matthew 15: 3-6)

The Pharisees followed their own tradition as a substitute to the commandments of God. Note what Jesus says next.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaiah prophesy of you, saying, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:7-9)
Do what you want.

Rom 14:
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

The Pharisees of today (meaning the preachers) teach the doctrine of men, by making statements such as, "We are not under the law we are under grace.” Not knowing which law we are no longer under. Therefore their flocks are ever learning, meaning not coming to the true faith. Thus they worship the Lord in vain. Even going to church on the first day of the week, Sunday. But the Bible says
Sabbath Day of the Lord -God of the Bible. (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!
No offense, but the Pharisees of today are the ones who do not understand the liberty we have in Christ, and try and force the law on people.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
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#43
Do what you want.

Rom 14:
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


No offense, but the Pharisees of today are the ones who do not understand the liberty we have in Christ, and try and force the law on people.
Yes that’s what they did then also infact what makes a Pharisee is someone who tries to impose the law on others and don’t keep it themselves

what your saying has always been true but the issue was settled early on by the apostles

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

paul, barnabus , Peter and James all speak On the issue and come to this conclusion

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

then wrote a letter to the churches and sent it with Paul

“forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; that ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication:

from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-6, 19-20, 24, 28-29‬

It’s amazing how we can wuote and wuote things like this and still there are Pharisees trying to subvert Christian souls and place a yoke around tbier neck that they not anyone else has ever bore and lived not even Moses he died for transgression too and he was the mediator lol

Part of peters argument there that lead to the conclusion was

“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:7, 10‬ ‭

what benefit is it to put a heavy stone yoke around a Christian’s neck when they are already walking in the spirit of Christ because they hear and believe the gospel and follow the lords word and ways ? Why would we send them back to this ?

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
A

ehy does any Christian think that’s going to somehow help us be saved and forgiven and repent and live ? And how can we not understand it cannot save us cannot justify us it can only impute every single sin we’ve ever committed and hold us guilty and accuse us forever ?

Blindness to Christ comes when you stare at Moses law it’s why the y never accepted Jesus

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded:

for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s not where we want to go to get clarity or understanding it’s going to make us not see and hear the gospel if we’re stuck with that line of sight
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
705
122
43
#44
Do what you want.

Rom 14:
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

In Romans the 14th chapter Paul was not referring to literal food at all. He was simply using food for an example. Now, let's return to Romans the 14th chapter and see that he was in fact talking about the word of righteousness instead of literal food. For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Romans 14:17)

Now we see that Paul was simply talking about the doctrine of God using food as a form of instructions. We did not see one verse that stated, "Thus sayeth the Lord, I have changed my mind, you can eat whatever you desire, by the way, just pray over it."




No offense, but the Pharisees of today are the ones who do not understand the liberty we have in Christ, and try and force the law on people.
A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
705
122
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#45
a if we look to what Jesus taught we can see the truth

“And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:18

what food we eat has zero impact but what we do what comes out of us that is what matters if we treat people right we’re accepted if we treat people wrong we need to repent and do right by them in Jesus name

corrupt thinking makes us unclean , doing evil makes us unclean whether we eat a pork chop has no effect because it’s about the flesh it’s not about the spirit
Let's go in Paul writing and see how he expounded on these conditions of sins, Jesus is talking about that you quoted. Paul says in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Also Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body and the mind, with unholiness or unGodliness.

Now Paul said in Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Keep in mind there was no New Testament when Paul and the apostles wrote these letters. Now lets go back into the Old testament in Leviticus 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
705
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#47
sits not gone brother it’s been fulfilled as a curse and the new has come

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they did this repetitively through the ot

“And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim: and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger. And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.”
‭‭Judges‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as God said they would do they broke his covenant served other gods and defiles their injeritance and the broken covenant became a curse the curse he swore would come if they broke it that would spread through all the earth

The result of that covenant

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he promised a new covenant would come not according to the one they broke and fulfilled as a curse

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭

The two covenants are seperate one was fulfilled and I other came forth to save from the curse . he was offering salvation from that when Jesus came not of Moses or the same covenant law isreal was given in the desert but from the promise to David Abraham’s descendant a better covenant would come later when Jesus came

“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭32:40‬ ‭

“For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭61:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

age he’s a new eternal covenant that hasn’t been given when the prophets are speaking before Christ came they were telling the people he’s coming to save you from your sins ( defined by the old covenant law )

The whole Bible speaks of the old covenant and what it resulted in for mankind and new covenant and what he promised believers Christian’s belong to the covenant that offers salvation. NOt the law which holds the world guilty without excuse

that being said Christian’s aren’t allowed to lie , cheat , steal , kill ect we serve god not by th letters but the spirit so we’re going to not live in opposition to those anti commandments

aid we just would go to the gospel we’re not going to kill Cheat lie and do the “ thou shalt nots “ the fospel
Is our solution to the sin issue
Very good scriptures and verses you quoted and let me add....when the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).
 

VARob

Active member
Dec 21, 2020
633
179
43
#48
In Romans the 14th chapter Paul was not referring to literal food at all. He was simply using food for an example.
He was referring to literal food.

Now, let's return to Romans the 14th chapter and see that he was in fact talking about the word of righteousness instead of literal food. For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Romans 14:17)

Now we see that Paul was simply talking about the doctrine of God using food as a form of instructions. We did not see one verse that stated, "Thus sayeth the Lord, I have changed my mind, you can eat whatever you desire, by the way, just pray over it."
God changed what people could eat a few times in the Bible. Adam and Eve ate plants. After the flood of Noah, people could eat anything. Then God gave the law, where He restricted what people could eat. Then Jesus declared all foods clean, and we can eat what we want.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.
You do not understand the freedom we have in Christ.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
7,533
2,796
113
#50
Very good scriptures and verses you quoted and let me add....when the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).
sure I like alot of what your saying brother but this part is you not scripture

“when the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws. These laws”

This is the law it’s one and isn’t allowed to be changed or divided by any man under a penalty of death remember ?

This is the law and how it works

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a it’s not of faith if I’m telling you what you better not do or you’ll be put to death

air seems your trying to seperate “ thou shalt not commit adultery “ from the hindreds of other laws and ordinances Moses wrote but that’s not how the law works

a you have Ten Commandments the foundation of the law and then you have many ordinances and commands relating to each commandment

Each commandment is like a foundation that all the other commands rest upon there are ten sections of the law relating to each of the commandments

consider this brother

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so if you followmpaul awhile on that point you eventually get to this point regarding the commandmentone of the ten commandments remember

“Thou shall not covet “ that commandment was to teach mankind about lust and how it leads man to commit sin so we get to this point

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( the law taught him about lust it introduced him to lust ) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-11‬

at he thing is this brother we can’t serve Christ if we are yoked to a law telling us what not to do that law sayong “ thou shalt not lie “ that’s for liars , the law thou shalt not commit adultery that’s for adulterers the whole law is given to these people before Christ came and gave the spirit

“knowing this, that the law ( not some of the laws or some of the commands but the whole law ) is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭

Do you see what Paul’s saying this commandment

“thou shalt not kill “
Is
“for murderers”

This command
“thou shalt nOt lie “

is

“for liars,”

this command

“Thou shalt not bear false witness “

is

“for perjured persons,”

are you seeing the design of law how it’s meant to impute in upon everyone who’s sinned and hold them guilty before God like Paul said there in Roman’s three ?

airs even ordained and governed by this guy

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

tbisnosnwhy the law is destined like it is all about what not to do or else we don’t need it we have Jesus teaching us what to do so we can forget about our old sinful life because we aren’t constantly being accused by the law we can just start over following Jesus being forgiven of sin and of course the law it’s for sinners who won’t repent like he said there in Timothy

the righteousness of God is found in the gospel without the law not just some of the laws but the entirety of the law because it’s a whole unit one says

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as command built upon it says this

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

everything noses commanded the children of Israel from Sinai and also the congregation at horeb including the command that if anyone removes one principle of all of them that’s also a death sentance under the law a

the law is a whole either everything in Moses book is not our law anymore or everything Moses commanded them is our law we aren’t allowed to seperate anything from it jesus teaches us everything we need

snow that said if we go to Jesus and let him be the lawgiver we arent going to lie , cheat and steal and bear false witness commit adultery and kill nor have any other god but him

asp th commandments telling us we better not do those things became irrelevant we’re being led by the lord now we don’t need tablets of stone and a word given to hopeless sinners to murderers and idolaters who didn’t repent and never received the spirit

So understand I’m not saying let’s all break the commandments , I’m saying we can never know God or serve him by those commandments telling us what not to do that’s how unspiritual sinners we’re allowed to exist until Christ came giving life and truth and salvation

It’s holy and good but can’t save anyone because we’re all guilty of breaking it already now we need something new and better that can change us from a sinner needing to be warned and threatened constantly with death and destruction to a beloved and approves and embraces and cared for and taught and gently led home to God

all we need is Jesus d his gospel if we’re there Moses law did it’s job and sent us to Jesus and his word of life this word is ours and will guide us and we won’t be needing to hear not to kill and steal Jesus is a better teacher than that he teaches us to actually live a pleasing life before God

seven in the world brother the law is there for lawbreakers it’s illegal to kill in most nations because there are killers out there

the law against murder in tbe world I don’t need to hear , it’s no benefit to me because I’m not a murderer and would t kill anyone as a born again Christian it’s already written on
My heart “ I would never kill anyone “

If I already know not to kill by my nature what benefit is there for someone to hammer home “ you better not kill anyone or else “

To change we have to convert to the gospel so our minds can change and we can hear what he’s really saying
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
705
122
43
#51
sure I like alot of what your saying brother but this part is you not scripture

“when the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws. These laws”

This is the law it’s one and isn’t allowed to be changed or divided by any man under a penalty of death remember ?

This is the law and how it works

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a it’s not of faith if I’m telling you what you better not do or you’ll be put to death

air seems your trying to seperate “ thou shalt not commit adultery “ from the hindreds of other laws and ordinances Moses wrote but that’s not how the law works

a you have Ten Commandments the foundation of the law and then you have many ordinances and commands relating to each commandment

Each commandment is like a foundation that all the other commands rest upon there are ten sections of the law relating to each of the commandments

consider this brother

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so if you followmpaul awhile on that point you eventually get to this point regarding the commandmentone of the ten commandments remember

“Thou shall not covet “ that commandment was to teach mankind about lust and how it leads man to commit sin so we get to this point

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ( the law taught him about lust it introduced him to lust ) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-11‬

at he thing is this brother we can’t serve Christ if we are yoked to a law telling us what not to do that law sayong “ thou shalt not lie “ that’s for liars , the law thou shalt not commit adultery that’s for adulterers the whole law is given to these people before Christ came and gave the spirit

“knowing this, that the law ( not some of the laws or some of the commands but the whole law ) is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭

Do you see what Paul’s saying this commandment

“thou shalt not kill “
Is
“for murderers”

This command
“thou shalt nOt lie “

is

“for liars,”

this command

“Thou shalt not bear false witness “

is

“for perjured persons,”

are you seeing the design of law how it’s meant to impute in upon everyone who’s sinned and hold them guilty before God like Paul said there in Roman’s three ?

airs even ordained and governed by this guy

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

tbisnosnwhy the law is destined like it is all about what not to do or else we don’t need it we have Jesus teaching us what to do so we can forget about our old sinful life because we aren’t constantly being accused by the law we can just start over following Jesus being forgiven of sin and of course the law it’s for sinners who won’t repent like he said there in Timothy

the righteousness of God is found in the gospel without the law not just some of the laws but the entirety of the law because it’s a whole unit one says

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as command built upon it says this

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭

everything noses commanded the children of Israel from Sinai and also the congregation at horeb including the command that if anyone removes one principle of all of them that’s also a death sentance under the law a

the law is a whole either everything in Moses book is not our law anymore or everything Moses commanded them is our law we aren’t allowed to seperate anything from it jesus teaches us everything we need

snow that said if we go to Jesus and let him be the lawgiver we arent going to lie , cheat and steal and bear false witness commit adultery and kill nor have any other god but him

asp th commandments telling us we better not do those things became irrelevant we’re being led by the lord now we don’t need tablets of stone and a word given to hopeless sinners to murderers and idolaters who didn’t repent and never received the spirit

So understand I’m not saying let’s all break the commandments , I’m saying we can never know God or serve him by those commandments telling us what not to do that’s how unspiritual sinners we’re allowed to exist until Christ came giving life and truth and salvation

It’s holy and good but can’t save anyone because we’re all guilty of breaking it already now we need something new and better that can change us from a sinner needing to be warned and threatened constantly with death and destruction to a beloved and approves and embraces and cared for and taught and gently led home to God

all we need is Jesus d his gospel if we’re there Moses law did it’s job and sent us to Jesus and his word of life this word is ours and will guide us and we won’t be needing to hear not to kill and steal Jesus is a better teacher than that he teaches us to actually live a pleasing life before God

seven in the world brother the law is there for lawbreakers it’s illegal to kill in most nations because there are killers out there

the law against murder in tbe world I don’t need to hear , it’s no benefit to me because I’m not a murderer and would t kill anyone as a born again Christian it’s already written on
My heart “ I would never kill anyone “

If I already know not to kill by my nature what benefit is there for someone to hammer home “ you better not kill anyone or else “

To change we have to convert to the gospel so our minds can change and we can hear what he’s really saying

“when the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws.
I agree
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
705
122
43
#52
He was referring to literal food.


God changed what people could eat a few times in the Bible. Adam and Eve ate plants. After the flood of Noah, people could eat anything. Then God gave the law, where He restricted what people could eat. Then Jesus declared all foods clean, and we can eat what we want.


You do not understand the freedom we have in Christ.
Explain to me the freedom, because Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation, or freedom as you say.
 

VARob

Active member
Dec 21, 2020
633
179
43
#54
Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26)
No, eternal life is a gift, given when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. We are not saved by works, but by faith in Christ. The prize will be rewards in the kingdom.

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation, or freedom as you say.
Paul knew his salvation was assured. What is not assured are rewards. Rewards are earned, and may be lost. There will be a huge difference between a Christian who did little for God and one who did his best to live as God wants us to live. Keeping or not keeping dietary laws or observing the seventh-day Sabbath will not affect a Christian's rewards.
 
Mar 17, 2022
887
249
43
#55
Now, let's take a look at the dietary law. We will begin in Leviticus the 11th chapter and start at the first verse.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, “These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 11:1-3) that shall ye eat.” (Leviticus 11:1-3)

Note what the Lord says to Moses, "Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat." Here the Lord gives us a description of the beast that we can eat. We may not know what a particular animal is, but by using this description we know if the beast is clean or unclean. Let's take a look at the beast that we shall not eat.

Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare (rabbit), because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine (pig, pork), though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. (Leviticus 11:4-8)

These are the beasts that shall not be eaten. Why? Because the Lord said so! Take a look at this verse in the book of St. John. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you (John 15:14). So, if an individual call themselves a Christian or a friend of Christ, the swine (pig) should never be on your dinner plate or anything else that the Lord deems unclean. Remember that Christ is the ONE that gave the dietary law. Remember Christ was the Rock that followed our fathers in the cloud in the wilderness (1 Corinthians 10:4).

Remember, He is the Lord and He change not. Remember Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever Hebrews 13:8)! It has nothing to do with an animal being a scavenger or anything else.
I have never eaten camel and never will eat camel.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,152
2,306
113
#56
Mark 7:19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

Plus, as mentioned, read Rom 14.
The law in the OT is written in stone and rules, not into our hearts. Christ did that. Until the fourth century it was thought that the heart did what we now know is brain and emotion.

,So to eat, in the OT, was put food in our stomach. It was a symbol of the law in the spirit. When Christ came those rules were no more, but to eat was to feed the mind and soul. We are not to feed the mind on any smut, but bacon for the stomach is OK, even though it comes from pigs meant to eat garbage.
 

VARob

Active member
Dec 21, 2020
633
179
43
#57
The law in the OT is written in stone and rules, not into our hearts. Christ did that. Until the fourth century it was thought that the heart did what we now know is brain and emotion.

,So to eat, in the OT, was put food in our stomach. It was a symbol of the law in the spirit. When Christ came those rules were no more, but to eat was to feed the mind and soul. We are not to feed the mind on any smut, but bacon for the stomach is OK, even though it comes from pigs meant to eat garbage.
If you don't like bacon or don't want to eat it, then don't eat it (Rom 14:2). Problem solved.

If we ever have dinner together, since I know that you do not eat bacon, I won't have bacon either (Rom 14:13-15). Problem solved.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,152
2,306
113
#58
If you don't like bacon or don't want to eat it, then don't eat it (Rom 14:2). Problem solved.

If we ever have dinner together, since I know that you do not eat bacon, I won't have bacon either (Rom 14:13-15). Problem solved.
However did you read my post saying unclean foods were just a symbol of unclean, Christ took away the symbols (bacon) and rules, and wrote his ways on our heart.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,654
470
83
#59
Who gave Moses "The Dietary Law"? We will do a strange work which is seldom done today. We will allow the scripture to be our guide to answer that question, along with a few others that need to be addressed. After finding out who gave this law to Moses, we should have no problem following it, if we call ourselves Christians. Remember brothers and sisters Jesus, states in Matthew 5 and verse 18, "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." We still have the heavens and the earth, correct? Those things indicate that the Lord's law still remains in tact. Those that read the Bible know that all has not been fulfilled, so His laws and statutes must be kept. In addition, we must also look at verses that some individuals think the subject in that particular verse or chapter is dealing with the "Dietary Law" when in fact has nothing to do with it. Those individuals try to uses Paul's writings to come to that conclusion. (As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. II Peter 3:16) The unquestionable fact is that the law of sacrifice was nailed to the cross, which was our schoolmaster to bring us onto Christ. Now, let’s see who gave the "Dietary Law" to Moses and the rest of the Children of Israel.

And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, these are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.” (Leviticus 11:1-2)

So, who spoke unto Moses and Aaron? The LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying, "These are the beasts which ye shall eat." Was this the Father? Well, let's allow the book show us. Take a Look at this verse in St. John chapter one. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

Note the verse says, "No man hath seen God at any time." Therefore, that covers all time correct. If no man has seen God at anytime who is this?

And he said unto Moses, “Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.” (Exodus 24:1)

We see in the above verse, Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy of the elders were told to come up unto the Lord and worship. Let's skip to the 9th verse and see what happen when these 74 Israelites arrive on top of the mount.

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. (Exodus 24:9-11)

Clearly the verse states, "They saw the God of Israel." The verse doesn't say it was a vision. But, St. John chapter one states, "No man has seen God at anytime.” Before we return to the Book of John and find out which God no man has seen at anytime, note what the next verse states.

And the LORD said unto Moses, “Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” (Exodus 24:12)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let's find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let us find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)
So, who is the God that hasn't been seen? The Father himself, ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Now, let's see who this God is that the seventy four elders saw in mount Horeb. Let us go to I Corinthians the tenth chapter and start at verse one.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (I Corinthians 10:1-4)

So, who was the God in the Mountain that gave Moses the Law? That God was CHRIST! Let's return to the fifth chapter of John and see who's name Christ came in. I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

So, you see brothers and sister “Jesus” in the Fathers name. I would be real careful when it comes to the name of Jesus. Now we see that Jesus Christ is the God that gave the commandments to Moses. We should have no problem doing what He says if we call ourselves followers of Christ.
We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.
There is something called the "New Covenant," you should try it!
 
Jul 18, 2017
19,137
9,919
113
#60
This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct.
You are now switching from dietary laws to moral laws. The dietary laws are NULL AND VOID. Which means that you are actually opposing God and Christ by trying to reinstate them. That is called rebellion.