Sermon on the mount - life or legalistic junk

[PeterJens]

You,have basically, judged them as corrupt men out to destroy you and God's work and they have judged you as the same.
I ask what if you are both wrong.
I started the poll and thread and see now where a lot of the misunderstanding has come from.
They don't like the way you say things and you don't like the way they say things.

I have to say this is an empathetic analysis of group problems, ignoring the facts and
merely picking up on the emotional and relationship positions.

Content matters. It is the foundation of the gospel. What is sin and what is salvation,
what is walking in Gods ways and what is heresy?

If you cannot accept some do not accept the boundaries and principles God has set,
then they are constructing their own faith after their own understanding.

And to justify this position I must be a guilty hypocrite, who is lying, wicked and evil.
And so I am portrayed. But that is just their first bad fruit.

The second is to downplay sin, to remove it completely from the board of faith or
walking with the Lord. Now you choose to ignore this, and accept they have excuses
for all the verses about dealing with sin, which is just an abomination. Judgement will
fall on these people and their ways, as all the judgements in Ezekiel testify to those who
refuse to repent of their transgression and seek His face in sorrow.

And yes in their rebellion they want to be regarded as the called and chosen, while standing
afar off and mocking the righteous, those who walk in the ways of the most High.

Their guilt will remain unless they humble themselves and repent before the throne of grace.

 

[followjesus]

Jesus said this about the sermon on the mount

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25

Now here is a quote from a contributor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The sermon on the mount was to show the Jews how futile the law was, how only through what Jesus was about to do through His grace and Mercy on the cross to usher in the New Covenant.

Not as basic instruction for how to be a Christian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So this is actually saying ignore what Jesus is saying, He is saying it all
just to make you feel bad so you will believe in the cross to do everything
for you and your behaviour is irrelevant.

So Jesus is lying about all the issues, and does not expect our righteousness
to be true love coming from the heart, or our prayers to be in secret, or
our love for women to not be adulterous, or our anger not to be constained,
or our giving not to be in secret, or our loving of our enemies not be be like
Gods loving.

This is both rebellion against Jesus's obvious intention repeated by the apostles
and replacing the Law of Christ with lawlessness.

Anyone who teaches like this is disowning Christ and His eternal words and
therefore Jesus will disown before the Father.

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10:33

As Jesus says in the seed and the sower, if His word does not abide in you and
produce crop of more words, then you are not part of Him.

John 6:63 ""It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS THAT I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE."

They are Life, they quicken Our bodies to walk in the spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

Did you see how he avoided V26 altogether?

Then again, cultists usually avoid the important scriptures that disprove their heresy.

Avoided verse 26 altogether, cultists, heresy? In the first place, I did not avoid it at all. *Once again - To "sin willfully" (verse 26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). That's not avoiding it altogether at all. Why the false accusation?

Not only did I NOT avoid verse 26 (I dealt with it head on) and I also properly harmonized Scripture with Scripture. I am certainly not a cultist and the truth here is certainly not heresy. Why are you so bitter and angry and why must you continuously lash out at people who disagree with your doctrine? Apparently, the sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts!

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel82, are you always wanting to be the center of attention, or you just like to bother people? You are now on ignore.

I like understanding what people believe. It's called conversation, not "bothering people"
I typically choose a couple threads on the BDF to follow. So I doubt people pay that much attention to me.

Jesus is the center of my attention and I hope that's true for everyone I speak with.kind of offensive you would label me both an attention hog and an annoyance. Yet I doubt Peter will rebuke you for it. Double standards of him expecting me to stand up for him, but he doesn't say a peep when you attack me.

You hardly ever answer questions do you, stephen?

Just criticize, criticize criticize...

Don't worry, you hold the special honor of being the only person I currently have in ignore.

 

[Ariel82]

Avoided verse 26 altogether, cultists, heresy? In the first place, I did not avoid it at all. *Once again - To "sin willfully" (verse 26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). That's not avoiding it altogether at all. Why the false accusation?

Not only did I NOT avoid verse 26 (I dealt with it head on) and I also properly harmonized Scripture with Scripture. I am certainly not a cultist and the truth here is certainly not heresy. Why are you so bitter and angry and why must you continuously lash out at people who disagree with your doctrine? Apparently, the sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts!

V26 address willful sin.

What does the Bible say about ignorant sin? Or the sin of unbelief in Jesus?

 

[Ariel82]

I have to say this is an empathetic analysis of group problems, ignoring the facts and
merely picking up on the emotional and relationship positions.

Content matters. It is the foundation of the gospel. What is sin and what is salvation,
what is walking in Gods ways and what is heresy?

If you cannot accept some do not accept the boundaries and principles God has set,
then they are constructing their own faith after their own understanding.

And to justify this position I must be a guilty hypocrite, who is lying, wicked and evil.
And so I am portrayed. But that is just their first bad fruit.

The second is to downplay sin, to remove it completely from the board of faith or
walking with the Lord. Now you choose to ignore this, and accept they have excuses
for all the verses about dealing with sin, which is just an abomination. Judgement will
fall on these people and their ways, as all the judgements in Ezekiel testify to those who
refuse to repent of their transgression and seek His face in sorrow.

And yes in their rebellion they want to be regarded as the called and chosen, while standing
afar off and mocking the righteous, those who walk in the ways of the most High.

Their guilt will remain unless they humble themselves and repent before the throne of grace.

You mistaken me Peter.

I do not tolerate the teaching of a false gospel by anyone.

What I am trying to point out to you is not that all your observations are unfounded. Some are very to the point.

What I want to show you is there is a better way to explain why what they are saying gives the false idea about God and the gospel.

Do you treat unbelievers the same way as you treat wolves?

How about brothers who got it wrong and need some help understanding?

I pray for wolves and unbelievers and ask God for what to say to get them to see the true gospel. But I don't insult them or throw Bible verses at them. I talk about their life and what God has already reveled to them and lead them to Jesus and His salvation message.

I tell brothers and sisters that I believe they mistaken, but don't make them question their salvation or call them bad names. I pray for them too. I use bible verses with them.

So depending on if you accept the people you speak with as brothers or wolves, you have to treat them differently if you want them to see God's truth.

That is the goal right?

To show that God is right and the rest of the world wrong?

 

[mailmandan]

V26 address willful sin.

What does the Bible say about ignorant sin? Or the sin of unbelief in Jesus?

Sinning in ignorance is not excusable, either. Those who reject Jesus and His gospel in ignorance must accept Him in repentance in order to receive forgiveness of their sins (Acts 3:17-19; Acts 17:30-31). We were all in unbelief until we repented and believed the gospel. To die in unbelief is unforgivable. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Grace777x70]

V26 address willful sin.

What does the Bible say about ignorant sin? Or the sin of unbelief in Jesus?

I will give my opinion as I'm sure mailmandan will too. ( re-edit - I see he just did )

Willful sinning in Heb. 10:26 is the unbelief in Christ's work on the cross for the forgiveness of sins. The book of Hebrews from chapter 3 and 4 to 10:26 are talking about the unbelief in Christ's work and these Hebrews were willfully rejecting the Spirit of grace and going to the temple to sacrifice animals for their sins instead of believing in Christ's blood.

They were doing this "after receiving the knowledge of the truth". There is a difference between receiving the knowledge of Jesus and receiving Jesus Himself as the sacrifice for all sin.

1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. It is in the present tense - always cleansing us. It is the gospel message that our sins are forgiven because of Christ's work.

John 16:8-9 says that the Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/exposes the world of their unbelief in Christ. Christians - well true ones - believe that in Christ's work and that He alone has made them righteous.

Now our minds need to renewed to what we have in Christ to walk out what is already in us now in Christ.

 

[valiant]

This is true, by showing us without His love and life in our hearts we cannot
fulfill Gods aspirations. But with Gods power at work in us, we do fulfill them.

It appears to me it is this second part you are missing.

What you fail to see is the two aspects of salvation, the first is that He saves us once for all from the guilt and penalty of sin, justifying us in His sight and making us eternally right with Himself (Romans 3.21-8.Eph 1.4-11; 2.8-9; 1 Cor 1.8-9: 2 Timothy 1.9; Tit 3.4-7; Heb 10.14).


He then works specifically in us to save us from the power and pollution of sin by the blood of Jesus (1 Cor 1.18), working in us to will and do of His good pleasure (Phil 2.13), something which we have to 'work out' (Phil 2,12).

So 'the second part' isn't missing. It is catered for in His plan.

Then finally He will present us fully saved from the very presence of sin. That is still the final part of our salvation, which was guaranteed the moment He 'saved us' (Aorist). Whom He justified, them He also glorified (Rom 8.29-30),,

 

[mailmandan]

What you fail to see is the two aspects of salvation, the first is that He saves us once for all from the guilt and penalty of sin, justifying us in His sight and making us eternally right with Himself (Romans 3.21-8.Eph 1.4-11; 2.8-9; 1 Cor 1.8-9: 2 Timothy 1.9; Tit 3.4-7; Heb 10.14).

He then works specifically in us to save us from the power and pollution of sin by the blood of Jesus (1 Cor 1.18), working in us to will and do of His good pleasure (Phil 2.13), something which we have to 'work out' (Phil 2,12).

So 'the second part' isn't missing. It is catered for in His plan.

Then finally He will present us fully saved from the very presence of sin. That is still the final part of our salvation, which was guaranteed the moment He 'saved us' (Aorist). Whom He justified, them He also glorified (Rom 8.29-30),,

Amen! There are three tenses to salvation (which often get mixed up) 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing justification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

 

[Stephen63]

I like understanding what people believe. It's called conversation, not "bothering people"
I typically choose a couple threads on the BDF to follow. So I doubt people pay that much attention to me.

Jesus is the center of my attention and I hope that's true for everyone I speak with.kind of offensive you would label me both an attention hog and an annoyance. Yet I doubt Peter will rebuke you for it. Double standards of him expecting me to stand up for him, but he doesn't say a peep when you attack me.

You hardly ever answer questions do you, stephen?

Just criticize, criticize criticize...

Don't worry, you hold the special honor of being the only person I currently have in ignore.

You don't know how much that means to me..... keep me there.

 

[Stephen63]

Avoided verse 26 altogether, cultists, heresy? In the first place, I did not avoid it at all. *Once again - To "sin willfully" (verse 26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21) not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). That's not avoiding it altogether at all. Why the false accusation?

Not only did I NOT avoid verse 26 (I dealt with it head on) and I also properly harmonized Scripture with Scripture. I am certainly not a cultist and the truth here is certainly not heresy. Why are you so bitter and angry and why must you continuously lash out at people who disagree with your doctrine? Apparently, the sword of the Spirit hurts when it cuts!

You act like christians can't deliberately, continuously sin. You can't seem to swallow such a truth.

Israel was called a "backsliding heifer", & her backslidings are well known. The Antichrist won't come until a falling away happens within the church.

What you cannot see is that you are becoming part of it with this "anything goes" salvation.

 

[notuptome]

You act like christians can't deliberately, continuously sin. You can't seem to swallow such a truth.

Israel was called a "backsliding heifer", & her backslidings are well known. The Antichrist won't come until a falling away happens within the church.

What you cannot see is that you are becoming part of it with this "anything goes" salvation.

Judgmental and inconsistent with grace.

God continues to love Israel despite their backsliding. Chastises them in an effort to bring them back.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[valiant]

Did you see how he avoided V26 altogether?

Then again, cultists usually avoid the important scriptures that disprove their heresy.

Heb 10.26 was written to Jews contemplating becoming Christian. It warned them that if they sinned wilfully they could no longer look to the sacrifices for sin as they used to do, for now they had heard of Christ that would lead them to a certain fearful looking for of Judgement which would devour those who were adversaries of the cross of Christ. It was now Christ and His cross or judgment.

Those who despised Moses law (which sanctified them by blood) died without mercy at the hands of two or three witnesses,
how much worse punishment is deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God (by clinging to the old sacrifices), and have profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified (which pointed to Christ's cross), and have put Him to an open shame by denying Him.
,,

 

[valiant]

You act like christians can't deliberately, continuously sin. You can't seem to swallow such a truth.

Christians can and do deliberately sin, and when they do they turn to Christ for forgiveness (1 John 1.8-10).

But Heb 10.25 was written to Jews contemplating becoming Christians who had sinned deliberately, and they were warned that they could no no longer look to the old sacrifices for sin. They had to choose Christ or judgment.,

 

[Stephen63]

Judgmental and inconsistent with grace.

God continues to love Israel despite their backsliding. Chastises them in an effort to bring them back.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I never said God doesn't.

Don't you remember how many Israelites decided to stay when 70 years were up?

Some choose to stay where they are.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You act like christians can't deliberately, continuously sin. You can't seem to swallow such a truth.

Israel was called a "backsliding heifer", & her backslidings are well known. The Antichrist won't come until a falling away happens within the church.

What you cannot see is that you are becoming part of it with this "anything goes" salvation.

Christians sin, but we don't "continually" sin. That's unbelievers. It's unbelievers who because of their sin of unbelief are continually sinning.

 

[Stephen63]

I keep hearing that christians don't choose or cannot continually sin on purpose, as in premeditated sin.

Yet, one only needs to look in CC to see those that sin in nearly every post, & have fun doing it..... no regrets.

So much for unproven excuses.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I keep hearing that christians don't choose or cannot continually sin on purpose, as in premeditated sin.

Yet, one only needs to look in CC to see those that sin in nearly every post, & have fun doing it..... no regrets.

So much for unproven excuses.

You're being too hard on yourself. You don't sin in every post. Most of them for sure, but not every one.

 

[Grace777x70]

Malice, deceit and the slandering of others in the body of Christ are willful sinning for sure. Just like all the other works of the flesh. These are no different then someone that says living the homosexual lifestyle is ok.

It is really a sign of being a baby Christian but I believe the Lord is growing us up if we look to His grace and believe the gospel of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and that we too have been included in His death and resurrection.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,