signs and wonders and liverquivers Part 2.

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A

Abiding

Guest
#1
#1
Part 1 was just to flush out this forum groups feelings if for nothing else than for my own curiousity.
Never was the intention there to say that God is silent, or, absent with us, or that He never intervenes
in the life of the church or the world. My attention was never awoke before i heard it said that we all should be seeing signs and wonders like the early church. So i would have expected to get alot of comments out of these 5 questions since the bible says in the last days there will be lying signs and wonders. But nope!
Part #1 asked
1. why do people believe they should be seeing signs and wonders just like the days of Jesus and Apostles.
2. Do you even know how many signs were done and by who and why?
3. Do you think all believers did signs and wonders?
4 What purpose is there for signs and wonders?
5. Why are so many running after signs and wonders?


Few comments made that seemed worthy to but eliz Post #44, and Glorybe.



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Part 2 Next are my opinions on these questions. If the thread lasts I will add some work
to this on the reason for the signs in the first century from scripture.

#1 The reason people think there should be as many visible signs and wonders just like in the first century
is because that is what they were taught. Nothing more than that. They may watch TV. And they have
never been taught from the bible the purpose for them.

#2 The bible starts with Jesus doing miracles and signs(identifying) as He would say "that the scriptures be
fulfilled" I have a list of at least 50 specific prophecies Jesus had to fullfil and 34 more just concerning
concerning His death, to authenticate Him as Messiah.

Jesus promised or advised His disciples that they would have special powers and signs and wonders in
their ministry. People read these verses and apply them to everyone in the church. This is not only
wrong, but the books of Acts does not at all have any record of this happening. The Apostles and a
few others (I will show later in the thread) did signs and wonders to "confirm" them. Why? They gave
us the word of God and established the foundation of the church. Bringing the world into the New
from the Old Covenant and bring in the gentiles. Noway were these signs and wonders being operated
by all believers as is falsely taught today. Ill explain why further on.

#3 My answer to this is no, no record of it in the bible. And the promises(so called) in the gospels were
rather instructions to the disciples, read the context. And look at history. God works providentially in the
lives of all mankind and signs and wonders do happen as they have in all history. If everyone did signs
and wonders what would make the Apostles and Prophets unique? There were hundreds of gospels
written at that time, along with false prophets and apostles. Think about that. The answer is NO!

#4 My answer is in the history record of opening new areas to the gospel, especially parts of the world
where dark spiritual practices were. There has been record of signs and wonders till the foundation
is laid. Probably to confirm the preacher and the message. Otherwise they serve little purpose and
do not produce faith.

#5 I had one honest answer I agree with. Entertainment. Another said Harry Potter, which i took as saying
there is a current thirst for the mystical or esoteric, magical. Someone even suggested for me to change
churches so i could experience lots of signs and wonders. As if i forgot Jesus words about those who
seek after signs and wonders, and that Paul said this would happen in the last days.


Next ill post convincing biblical evidence the signs and wonders were given specifically to the Apostles
to confirm the Word of God. Special powers. This goes against popular false teachings in the church
designed to destroy the gospel and the true power of God. And make church a circus.

Matthew 16:1-4 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah. And He left them, and departed
 
jonathanbchristian

jonathanbchristian

Banned
#2
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
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#2
You spend alot of time bashing other peoples belief. I don't think you have produced Biblical evidence for your beliefs.
1. Name one verse that says that miracles were "only" for the apostles.
2. Name one verse that says "only for the foundation of the New Testament Church."
3. Name one verse that says people are wicked in the last days for "miracles."
On the contrary, there is proof you are wrong
1. The Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentiles in Acts 10. They recieved power as Jesus prophesied, Acts 1:8. They were not apostles.
2. Acts 2:17 says that the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh, not just the apostles and not just one generation of believers, "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
3. Jesus was talking to people in the New Testament when he said "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."Matthew 16:4 Jesus still did miracles in the New Testament even though he said a wicked generation seeketh a sign. He never said the people seeking healing, or demons to be cast out of their family members were wicked. I think you have signs and miracles confused. The prophecy of the sign of Jonah is already fullfilled, because Jesus was buried and rose again in three days like Jonah was in the fish three days. Jesus was talking to those people about signs being evil, not blind people who called on him for healing being evil.
In conclusion, I don't see any where where people are warned to not seek healing, or to not seek the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. This was never considered wrong to do and it was never limited to just the New Testament Church. Where in the prophesy of Joel do you see that the Baptism and impowerment of the Holy Spirit is not for the Modern Day Church?
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#3
#3
jonathanbchristian said:
You spend alot of time bashing other peoples belief. I don't think you have produced Biblical evidence for your beliefs.
1. Name one verse that says that miracles were "only" for the apostles.
2. Name one verse that says "only for the foundation of the New Testament Church."
3. Name one verse that says people are wicked in the last days for "miracles."
On the contrary, there is proof you are wrong
1. The Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentiles in Acts 10. They recieved power as Jesus prophesied, Acts 1:8. They were not apostles.
2. Acts 2:17 says that the Spirit will be poured out on all flesh, not just the apostles and not just one generation of believers, "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
3. Jesus was talking to people in the New Testament when he said "A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."Matthew 16:4 Jesus still did miracles in the New Testament even though he said a wicked generation seeketh a sign. He never said the people seeking healing, or demons to be cast out of their family members were wicked. I think you have signs and miracles confused. The prophecy of the sign of Jonah is already fullfilled, because Jesus was buried and rose again in three days like Jonah was in the fish three days. Jesus was talking to those people about signs being evil, not blind people who called on him for healing being evil.
In conclusion, I don't see any where where people are warned to not seek healing, or to not seek the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. This was never considered wrong to do and it was never limited to just the New Testament Church. Where in the prophesy of Joel do you see that the Baptism and impowerment of the Holy Spirit is not for the Modern Day Church?
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Hey bro you twisted what ive said and weaved alot of other stuff far past the purpose of this thread.
If you would like ask and i can answer all these questions, if you wanted me too. but i wont lest you ask
in case you were just given your opinion
 
Elizabeth619

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
#4
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
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Abiding said:
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Hey bro you twisted what ive said and weaved alot of other stuff far past the purpose of this thread.
If you would like ask and i can answer all these questions, if you wanted me too. but i wont lest you ask
in case you were just given your opinion
Click to expand...

What do you expect? Thats what false prophets do.

I suggest we pray that he will recieve the TRUTH and not make up his own truths.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#5
#5
Elizabeth619 said:
What do you expect? Thats what false prophets do.

I suggest we pray that he will recieve the TRUTH and not make up his own truths.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the reminder. :)
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#6
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#6
good thread Abiding.
love zone.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#7
#7
Post 44# you said.

I think credit goes to you, it shouldn't be that it makes a difference to our fellowship in Christ, I just emphasized the truth you said abiding,
But I'll still take the Tim tams pleeeeaze

Early Church had the best revelation, things might and have been watered down over the centuries but we just need remember Elijah, no matter how much water anyone pours on it, God is sovereign
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#8
#8
huh? :) plus 10 characters
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#9
#9
Ok I'm confused, what the purpose of the thread?? Does signs and wonders still occur as did the early church?? Jesus said these signs will follow who believe, no brainer, believe, how far one wants to believe is up to them.
We don't deny God still cares for His children, if it's just a sign one seeks the sign of the cross is all thats given.

I'm struggling to understand what encouragement this brings, I know where abiding is coming from about false prophets and such but are we bordering on a fine line of not building up faith but subtlety tearing it down.

we are to encourage the brethren daily of the things of God but to be wise as serpents and simple as doves.
So I agree, many false ones there are, tares amongst the wheat, but our emphasis to my understanding is to encourage the good, yes point out the bad, yes but not let the bad things pollute the good that does get done.

This whole thing about exposing false doctrines and such when it becomes the focal point of ones walk only hinders doesn't add. I'm usually not this bold, I never purposely try to offend but that's how I see it and I hope it doesn't offend anyone but gives an opportunity to reflect.

Is God still sovereign to do as He wills, we all say amen, but beware of those who creep in unawares, amen.
I was out today driving, went past a church had a sign out the front, they have different one every week, on it it said
"seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness first, forget the rest"

Ok I'll go hide now lol
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#10
#10
There are tens of thousands of therapists with patients lined up trying to help the casualties that come out of the emergent church
that are drawn by lying signs and wonders. Ive made it clear that I am not talking about the true work of God. And this thread isnt here
to warm your heart. It may be here to catch an eye and make them be more aware. Or plant a thought to pass along to a friend, who may be
close to walking into a slaughterhouse. Families all over America are forming website and support groups for destroyed families and relationships.
No offence taken :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#11
#11
Abiding said:
There are tens of thousands of therapists with patients lined up trying to help the casualties that come out of the emergent church
that are drawn by lying signs and wonders. Ive made it clear that I am not talking about the true work of God. And this thread isnt here
to warm your heart. It may be here to catch an eye and make them be more aware. Or plant a thought to pass along to a friend, who may be
close to walking into a slaughterhouse. Families all over America are forming website and support groups for destroyed families and relationships.
No offence taken :)
Click to expand...
I do agree abiding, if they are just seeking a sign they shoot themselves in the foot and limp out, hope is found in Jesus, not the signs. :) love you brother much, cookie time???
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#12
#12
According to Scripture, Jesus said there would be an increase in signs and wonders in the last days, not to ‘vindicate and authenticate the gospel’ but rather to deceive the elect:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt. 24:24 [Mark 13:22; Luke 21:8]

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. . .Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." II Thess. 2:3,9

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." I Tim. 4:1

Jesus also said that "a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign" and gave a most sobering warning:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in they name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7:22-23
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#13
#13
Abiding said:
According to Scripture, Jesus said there would be an increase in signs and wonders in the last days, not to ‘vindicate and authenticate the gospel’ but rather to deceive the elect:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt. 24:24 [Mark 13:22; Luke 21:8]

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. . .Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." II Thess. 2:3,9

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." I Tim. 4:1

Jesus also said that "a wicked and adulterous generation seeks a sign" and gave a most sobering warning:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in they name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7:22-23
Click to expand...
Good point abiding, yet where do we draw a line between God doing something and the devil?? Anyone giving a good testimony about what God has done for them to be discounted? Ok I have to pray again about this all. I'm just wondering if the signs He was talking about were from Christians or new age religions deceiving people or both?

Thanks bro, I will give this all serious consideration and prayer. My greatest pray is not to be deceived into calling good evil and evil good, God forbid. I understand the seriousness of your message of heart to His people, don't doubt that for a minute.

I noticed no cookies? :(
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#14
#14
wake up the oreos and milk have been right there since last nite,
just a minute think the milk got warm.

I rekon if you cant see it right off then yes leave it alone.
A kid doesnt see the bad man, no not when he has candy, and toys,
be we train them anyway at the expence of the fact they have to
learn so young that everyone isnt wonderful. It always broke
my heart to do that part, i wanted them to just see the good
in everyone. But everyone isnt good.
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#15
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
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#15
Abiding now we come closer to eachother, and do not lose me again. Let me share with you how I was made known that I was one of those, that healed people in the NAME OF JESUS, but were actualy lost in my sin... MISLEAD BY FALSE TEACHINGS!!!

Ok! One night I payed with an old man, his wife had kidney stones... The fell out of her body... BIG MIRACLE! Or so I thought... I thought I was the NEW JESUS! ... Then I prayed again many times for sick and ill, and NOTHING happened. Or sometimes things did happen but by far the most times NOTHING!

Did I pray EVER to recieve a sign or a miracle, NO I DID IT BECAUSE I LOVED THE PEOPLE I PRAYED FOR, AND I BELIEVED GOD CAN STILL HEAL PEOPLE! I even tried to get the ELDERS of the REFORMED CHURCH to come and pray for the sick... James 5. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. We did not do the annointing in oil, becasue that seemed a bit too much, and I did get some prayers answered, why not when the elders are with me!

And I did it because I believed this... John 14:12... Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
I thought God would work through me, and then one night after we showed the Jesus film... I prayed for a two year old boy with a deformed hip... And NOTHING HAPPENED!...

I went home FURIOUS with GOD! I wanted to fight with God, physically! I was realy steamed, maybe as much as Jakob!
So I went to my desk, opened the Bible and said loud..." LORD, tonight we had the chance to gain MANY souls for your kingdom, why did you not heal that boy? Why do you sometines heal and sometimes NOT! Are you real, do you even EXIST? This is your last chance with me, Tell me of go to hell!"
Then i looked at the open Bible.. and written there was.... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. ... I replied... Now this Bible is lying to me!!! I am reborn but i will always be a sinner, Jesus died for me, I cannot stop sinning, God does not expect that from me!!! This Bible is wrong!...Then the Bible opened on another place... and this was written... Matthew 7... Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And here I saw myself on judgment day....I am that person that will try to argue with God on judgement day.... Thank God I fought with Him right there and then in the room..... and LOST!!!!!Now thoroughly beaten, I asked in dispair with an EMPTY SOUL...God what should I do?....And God spoke VERBALLY for the second time to me... GENESIS 1:1 START!!!
I did! Four months later, I first tried to find people that are really into GOD or rather GOD INTO THEM! I found NONE. Until one day, I phoned an old aquantance of mine and said... "HALLO DOLF, CAN WE BE PERFECT HERE?" ... Oh 4000 people I asked in that 4 months said NO! But this man said..."YES" and I said... OK THANK YOU PLEASE EXCUSE ME I HAVE SOME SERIOUS READING TO DO!!! He laughed and said.. ENJOY! BYE!...

Then I started reading but not yet with the eyes I should, it was still a bit of the... the blood covers me, God's grace is enough. And it is but God's grace does not stop with the forgiveness of sin. And I still had ...Man God's grace will forgive me ALWAYS, in my mind! That is not where it stops... So I went to church still, but all of a sudden not even the ministers in the church was OK for me... That man I wrestled with that night, was FAR stronger than to beat me as gentle as He did. Then one Sunday morning, my last morning in FALSE TEACHINGS... we had "nagmaal" where you eat bread and drink wine... I served wine for the first time in my deaconship.... And when the minister said... DRINK THIS IS MY BLOOD! ... I SAW A VISION OF THAT MAN TAKING A BUCKET FULL OF BLOOD AND THROW IT ON THE FLOOR AS YOU WOULD THROW AWAY DIRTY WATER.... And Jesus said to me... THIS IS HOW YOU WASTE MY BLOOD IN THIS CHURCH!... I cried so hard I had to run out of the sermon...Ran out and went home.

I knew my wife and my two daughters would be very worried and they were only 6 and 8 or thereabout... So when I got home I prayed... "Lord Jesus, please, you know why I am here, give peace to my wife and daughters!" ...I started reading from Genesis 1:1 again, right then, and suddenly, I had new eyes, I UNDERSTOOD what I read!

A few minutes later my family arrived, wild eyed and frightened. They asked... "DADDY why did you run from the church?" I said..."The Lord wants me to read His Word from start to finish...Daddy is not going to another church until daddy has read the Word of God!" The peace that fell on all three of them was my first miracle that JESUS GAVE ME!!!

The second one was in the Word! but that we can share later... So you see, I agree a lot of false teachers has many powers, not NEARLY as great a power as the Truth Teachers, but the false teachers and the false believers will NEVER seeany of their power, until it is too late!!! Just becasue these MEN OF GOD is quiet, does not mean they are not here... I told you before... If you know not any of them, change your company! And i mean that with the greatest of respect... Abiding JESUS IS IN PEOPLE ALL AROUND US!!! When Jesus is in you you will SEE HIM!!! Would you know an angel if one comes to you, right now? If you think you would, do you think God has NEVER sent you one? Oh boy, i wonder why God favours some people!
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#16
Feb 17, 2010
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#16
But everyone is not good.... Abiding NO ONE IS GOOD BUT ONE....And if He is not in you 100% then he is not in you AT ALL! And then you are BAD as all the others that is not good!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#17
#17
Abiding said:
wake up the oreos and milk have been right there since last nite,
just a minute think the milk got warm.

I rekon if you cant see it right off then yes leave it alone.
A kid doesnt see the bad man, no not when he has candy, and toys,
be we train them anyway at the expence of the fact they have to
learn so young that everyone isnt wonderful. It always broke
my heart to do that part, i wanted them to just see the good
in everyone. But everyone isnt good.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the cookies.

Theres things I see that concern me with "signs and wonders" in the churc, it's just how and when is it justified for me to judge. That's the finest line. There's faith healers all round the world I can call demonic in a heart beat abiding, it's separating the chaff in church that makes it a challenge, I do agree beware but then how do you warn people without them loosing faith. O wretched man I am , who will save me from myself
A: Jesus., hence more pray

I reckon if we microwave the milk we will get away with it.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#18
#18
Consumed said:
Ok I'm confused, what the purpose of the thread?? Does signs and wonders still occur as did the early church?? Jesus said these signs will follow who believe, no brainer, believe, how far one wants to believe is up to them.
We don't deny God still cares for His children, if it's just a sign one seeks the sign of the cross is all thats given.

I'm struggling to understand what encouragement this brings, I know where abiding is coming from about false prophets and such but are we bordering on a fine line of not building up faith but subtlety tearing it down.

we are to encourage the brethren daily of the things of God but to be wise as serpents and simple as doves.
So I agree, many false ones there are, tares amongst the wheat, but our emphasis to my understanding is to encourage the good, yes point out the bad, yes but not let the bad things pollute the good that does get done.

This whole thing about exposing false doctrines and such when it becomes the focal point of ones walk only hinders doesn't add. I'm usually not this bold, I never purposely try to offend but that's how I see it and I hope it doesn't offend anyone but gives an opportunity to reflect.

Is God still sovereign to do as He wills, we all say amen, but beware of those who creep in unawares, amen.
I was out today driving, went past a church had a sign out the front, they have different one every week, on it it said
"seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness first, forget the rest"

Ok I'll go hide now lol
Click to expand...

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Seems either im not reading it right or your not understanding it right. There will be more info in the
Apostle, Prophet Part2 if people would let it go to the back page. Then it will be discussed where and why signs were in the first century by the hands of the Apostles and why,But your right in one verse Jesus did say signs will follow those who believe. The other promises were only to the disciples.

He did not say they would manifest them by believing in signs. That kinda is what it looked like you were saying. He did not say signs would appear if they just believed in signs. He didnt even say they would see
any. He said they would follow...FOLLOW the ones that believed. My nephew up and decided that when
i talked he went through a great change of heart. Long story, spent time with him for 2 yrs, then same thing
happened to him, his friend came by and took to him, now he believes and is growing. Its nothing i see in me.
Its following me.Been told it many times. Signs follow those who believe....believe what??? In the gospel what else? what are the signs?

What are the signs? I cant say, not my job to worry about that, but i know they are point to someone,
they are to guide and direct, and sometimes God uses means, meaning people that believe. I do know
it isnt what i see emerging. Because it doesnt point to the gospel.
 
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C

Consumed

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#19
Abiding said:
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Seems either im not reading it right or your not understanding it right. There will be more info in the
Apostle, Prophet Part2 if people would let it go to the back page. Then it will be discussed where and why signs were in the first century by the hands of the Apostles and why,But your right in one verse Jesus did say signs will follow those who believe. The other promises were only to the disciples.

He did not say they would manifest them by believing in signs. That kinda is what it looked like you were saying. He did not say signs would appear if they just believed in signs. He didnt even say they would see
any. He said they would follow...FOLLOW the ones that believed. My nephew up and decided that when
i talked he went through a great change of heart. Long story, spent time with him for 2 yrs, then same thing
happened to him, his friend came by and took to him, now he believes and is growing. Its nothing i see in me.
Its following me.Been told it many times. Signs follow those who believe....believe what??? In the gospel what else? what are the signs?

What are the signs? I cant say, not my job to worry about that, but i know they are point to someone,
they are to guide and direct, and sometimes God uses means, meaning people that believe. I do know
it isnt what i see emerging. Because it doesnt point to the gospel.
Click to expand...
Thank you abiding, Im starting to see it all more clearer now. Thank you for your love and patience in addressing my views. Helps alot in taking in things, chewing on it like a cow does with cud, swallow bring it up chew some more, always getting that last bit of goodness out of it. That's cheesy but it explains what I mean.

Moooo lol your a good brother.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#20
#20
hi Abiding:

I'm currently trying to read the 520 page book entitled "The handbook for spiritual warfare" by Ed Murphy

I heard it is a must read at a lot of seminaries nowadays.

but I found a section of the book that I found interesting and wanted to hear your thoughts on it... mmm <grabs cookie whille looking for page>

pg. 271

on the verses 1 Corinthians 12: 1-3

"Demonic spirits are involved in at least two ways, Fee says:

1. In their pagan past they experienced demonic tongues, ecstatic utterances, prophecies, revelations, and the like. this regularly occured in the pagan temples. Probably many of the converts themselves had been formerly involved.

2. Demonic spirit utterances, which they took as coming from the Holy Spirit, were still occuring in their midst, probably even in their church services. These seems to explain Paul's unusual words in verse 3 "Therefore I make known to you, that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says "Jesus is accursed" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit.....

(he affirms the "worldwide renewal in the manifestation of spiritual gifts")

That is only one side of the coin, However. the other side is the real issue Paul is touching on here. All spiritual manifestations are not from the Holy Spirit, even what appears to be Christian manifestations. When the Holy Spirit is operating. He always produces a certain sound about Jesus. His words eventually always equal "Jesus is Lord" when the other spirit abides in or comes upon a person and that person speaks out, an uncertain sound comes out. this is especially true concerning the person of Jesus as Lord, Paul is saying:

This much seems clear. As we read these verses, however we must be very careful we do not oversimplify what can occur. Demons, when in manifestation and face-to-face with Christ, always tell the truth about His person. They do not deny either His incarnation of His lordship. Demons will NOT confess Jesus as their Lord, however."


anyway found it interesting...and then saw your thread and wanted to see what you thought of his words.
 
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