Sin Confession: A Waste of Breath?

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,053
305
83
28
#1
Why do I have to confess my sins for forgiveness when Jesus as my High Priest was the last and once and for all sacrifice for sin? Not only this, scripture says that He isn't like the priests of old having to often sacrifice for his sins and the people's sins, otherwise He would've suffered since the foundation of the world (since He, Himself, is that very sacrifice; Hebrews 9:25-28).

So, Jesus' blood isn't like the blood of bulls and goats, it actually takes away sin (Hebrews 10:4,10-14). The penalty is paid. There is no other means by which forgiveness of sin occurs, because the shedding of blood must occur in order for sins to experience remission (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Hence, forgiveness for any and all present sin.

If our sin is not forgiven, not to be said without reverence, Christ would have to get back on the cross according to scripture, but as scripture also says, His blood isn't like that of the sacrificial animals and He is an eternal priest, our High Priest (not dying like previous priests and with an eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek). This means that He is able to save us completely because He lives forever interceding on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25).

There are points being made here, but also a question to consider. I understand repentance is still necessary in this life, especially in consideration of things pertaining to life. What we are going to experience, consequences and benefits, etc. Why under the New Covenant would a person seek out forgiveness from God through sin confession when in Christ and through Christ [as our High Priest] we have the forgiveness of sin, and our sins through the shedding of Christ's blood have experienced remission?

Why ask for what we already have? The NT clearly says to forgive others because God for Christ's sake has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). So, instead of glorifying the Advocate and our High Priest, who is the propitiation (the appeasement, if you will) for our sins, as 1 John 2 emphasizes to the "beloved" (that's you and me), why would we make the forgiveness of sin something we have to attain instead of a reality we walk in through Jesus Christ? Why seek forgiveness on an eternal scale through any other avenue than God's Son, in the New Covenant?

PS: This was a response to another thread that I felt could make a good topic. Since I've been thinking of making this thread lately, I decided to copy it from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/158908-christians-under-grace.html#post3301201 and create this post.
 
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unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
24
18
#2
Why do I have to confess my sins for forgiveness when Jesus as my High Priest was the last and once and for all sacrifice for sin? Not only this, scripture says that He isn't like the priests of old having to often sacrifice for his sins and the people's sins, otherwise He would've suffered since the foundation of the world (since He, Himself, is that very sacrifice; Hebrews 9:25-28).

So, Jesus' blood isn't like the blood of bulls and goats, it actually takes away sin (Hebrews 10:4,10-14). The penalty is paid. There is no other means by which forgiveness of sin occurs, because the shedding of blood must occur in order for sins to experience remission (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus shed His blood for the remission of our sins. Hence, forgiveness for any and all present sin.

If our sin is not forgiven, not to be said without reverence, Christ would have to get back on the cross according to scripture, but as scripture also says, His blood isn't like that of the sacrificial animals and He is an eternal priest, our High Priest (not dying like previous priests and with an eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek). This means that He is able to save us completely because He lives forever interceding on our behalf (Hebrews 7:25).

There are points being made here, but also a question to consider. I understand repentance is still necessary in this life, especially in consideration of things pertaining to life. What we are going to experience, consequences and benefits, etc. Why under the New Covenant would a person seek out forgiveness from God through sin confession when in Christ and through Christ [as our High Priest] we have the forgiveness of sin, and our sins through the shedding of Christ's blood have experienced remission?

Why ask for what we already have? The NT clearly says to forgive others because God for Christ's sake has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). So, instead of glorifying the Advocate and our High Priest, who is the propitiation (the appeasement, if you will) for our sins, as 1 John 2 emphasizes to the "beloved" (that's you and me), why would we make the forgiveness of sin something we have to attain instead of a reality we walk in through Jesus Christ? Why seek forgiveness on an eternal scale through any other avenue than God's Son, in the New Covenant?

PS: This was a response to another thread that I felt could make a good topic. Since I've been thinking of making this thread lately, I decided to copy it from http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/158908-christians-under-grace.html#post3301201 and create this post.
Is 1 John 1:9 just a one time occurrence for those who believe in Jesus Christ?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:9)

According to the words of Christ, and Paul, are we to die every day, and be crucified with Christ every day?

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Corinthians 15:31)
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9:23)

Hebrews 12:6-10
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.



 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
958
13
0
#3
1 John 1 [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

He only cleanses us if we are walking in the light as He is in the light. So this begs the question: If we then sin - how do we restore fellowship in walking in the light? Through confession and forsaking our sins. This is the way that our Lord made available to us. The bible says that he who "confesses" AND "forsakes" his sins will obtain MERCY (Proverbs 28v13). And this we are to do if we are to remain walking in the light.

Then we have the words of Jesus to the 7 churches in Revelation: Ch2v5; 2v16; 2v21; 2v22; 3v3; 3v19 --- the common theme to those already in Christ (the churches) is repentance.

Look at Romans 2: [SUP]4 [/SUP]Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? [SUP]5 [/SUP]But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; [SUP]8 [/SUP]but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, [SUP]9 [/SUP]tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; [SUP]10 [/SUP]but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For there is no partiality with God.


Look at the book of Acts Chapter 8:

Simon the sorcerer became a believer - Acts 8[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.)

Then we see shortly thereafter: Acts 8v20-23

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! [SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”

This is but just a few examples throughout scripture explaining this truth. There are so many more.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
7,607
426
83
#4
it's appears that you are denying your Holy Intercessor,
and embracing your sins...

apparently 'free-from-sin-and free-from-consequences are
very popular these days...
there is 'much danger in this kind of rebellious thinking/acting'...

'Strong, Faithful, prayer warriors' needed here!...
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
916
24
18
#5
it's appears that you are denying your Holy Intercessor,
and embracing your sins...

apparently 'free-from-sin-and free-from-consequences are
very popular these days...
there is 'much danger in this kind of rebellious thinking/acting'...

'Strong, Faithful, prayer warriors' needed here!...

One must understand that there is a Bible verse that reads..."for where no law is, there is no transgression." A misconception then, is if we get rid of the law, sin will vanish with it, and by that, we are set free.
 
Apr 23, 2017
1,064
36
0
#6
is this joseph prince's deal???????

where does the bible say future sins are automatically forgiven by the way???? (not being snarky i really wanna find this verse)

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 3:25

another ting u see is, if we arent supposed to confess our sins, why is that verse in the bible???? u see. makes no sense.

christianity has never been this easy. now we are making it even easier by no confession??? soon its just believe. repentance is already dead.

fine by me i like easy.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
173
0
#7
Is 1 John 1:9 just a one time occurrence for those who believe in Jesus Christ?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(1 John 1:9)

According to the words of Christ, and Paul, are we to die every day, and be crucified with Christ every day?

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Corinthians 15:31)
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9:23)

Hebrews 12:6-10
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.





In 1Jn 1:9 'confess' is in the present tense indicating thst the action is to be ongoing or habitual. I don't think it is necessary to be aware of and confess every shortcoming, or something will remain unforgiven.
I think our prayer life should include periodic acknowledgement of the fact that we fall short of perfect obedience.

Some may notice that I took another position on this issue, in another post several days ago. My position has indeed changed after having parsed this verse in the Greek. I have come to what I regard as a better understanding a few minutes ago.
 
Jan 21, 2017
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#8
Another doctrine whipped outta thin air by Joseph Prince.

Unfortunately trash like this spreads like wildfire in today's cookie cutter world. We're all victims here.

 

Miri

Senior Member
Jul 22, 2012
7,985
819
113
UK age 49
#9

Hi Ben,

There is a difference between justification and sanctification.
People don’t understand the difference. If they did it would bring a stop to
the works/Grace argument.

Justification - what Jesus did on the cross for us, a divine exchange
took place. We were clothed with the righteousness of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21 NKJV
[21] For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NKJV
[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of
yourselves; it is the gift of God, [9] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
[10] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works,
which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


Sanctification - the process of change, of becoming more and more
like Jesus, being changed from one degree of glory to another.
An ongoing journey of putting off the old man and putting on the new man

People not born again remain under condemnation.

Whereas people who are born again, are no longer under
condemnation but God continues to train us up, refine,
and convict as we become more Christ like.
Any good father does the same for his children. You wouldn’t
want the kids to become spoilt brats just because they are
sons and daughters of the king!

For the Christian as we journey along, conviction should lead
to repentance, saying sorry dad and then moving on under
His love and grace. It should never lead to condemnation
as we are free from that.

Works people always feel condemned.
Hyper grace (I hate that word) think anything goes.

The true balance is to be found in knowing that we are
already justified and we are continuing to be santified under
the love and care of the father

Born again Christians also feel the unction of the Holy Spirit.
They have an awakened conscience and we can hear that still
small voice.


 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,000
253
83
#10
The life of a true convert is lived as a lifestyle of repentance. I have serious doubts about anyone who thinks otherwise, and that confession of personal sin, subsequent forgiveness and cleansing is not a significant part of walking in the light with Christ. This is what it means to eat of his flesh, and to drink of his blood, John 6.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
#11
I'd try and answer this Ben, but your post has to many non-sequiturs in it that I really don't follow your reasoning.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#12
Good thread Ben. When I started looking into what righteousness meant., the verses in 1 John 1:9 came to mind since we were taught this as soon as we got saved. I realized it was not for the saved person., but for the unsaved in the group meeting where John was preaching. There were a whole bunch of Gnostics in the house and they would not agree that they sin no more confess they sin.

The reason knowing what righteousness means for us Christians is we have to know we get it when we first received Jesus Christ as our personal Savior and He gave us His righteousness for which we stand on forever as long as Jesus lives. He is not an old covenant high priest who goes to make intercession for the people with sacrifice after sacrifice.

Jesus made one single sacrifice and need not go and make anymore. His stands for ever. This teaching about confessing sins to be forgiven (as a believer) in 1 John 1:9 has been taught for many years. But we need to see it in light of the new covenant. Here is part of an article by another Christian writer named Paul Ellis who I've grown to appreciate.

1 John 1:9 – Ask the Right Question

Posted on June 3, 2014 by Paul Ellis // 78 Comments
In many books on grace it is common to find some discussion on 1 John 1:9. This verse is special because it is the only verse in the new covenant that appears to link confession of sins with God’s forgiveness. If this verse was in the old covenant it would be no great thing, but because it’s in the new it stands out.


In his book Pure Grace, Clark Whitten writes:

Whenever the subjects of sin and the need of confession are raised, this verse (1 John 1:9) is universally quoted and trotted out as a proof text. Why? Because there aren’t any others to quote! (p.91)

1 John 1:9 is often used to support a mixed-grace message of conditional forgiveness, as in, “God won’t forgive you unless you review all of your sins.” Naturally this message is incompatible with the words of Jesus, and everything else the new covenant says about forgiveness.

Yet the law and grace preacher will insist from this one verse, that you must confess, if not to be re-forgiven, then at least to restore your relationship with the Lord. He will say things like, “If you sin against your spouse, don’t you confess?” Of course you do, but that’s hardly an argument for conditional forgiveness.


As I have said elsewhere, there’s a difference between healthy and unhealthy confession. Confessing sins is good for you, but only when it’s done with a heart of faith. Sadly, confessing-to-be-forgiven often reflects unbelief or ignorance regarding the finished work of the cross. Instead of making things better, this sort of confession promotes self-trust and frustrates grace.


Do sins need to be confessed to be cleansed?


Much of the debate over 1 John 1:9 hangs on the question of Who is John addressing? Who are the “we” who need to confess their sins? Is John describing unbelievers, as I have said elsewhere? Or is he describing all of us, because we all get dirty from time to time and need to be re-cleansed?


Maybe this is the wrong question. Perhaps we don’t need to get too worked up over who John had in mind when he wrote this verse. We can agree that we all need Jesus to cleanse us from sin and unrighteousness—every single one of us.


A better question is whether Jesus will cleanse us from all sin or only some sin (specifically the sin we confess). Does he cleanse us from all unrighteousness or only some unrighteousness? Here John is unequivocal. Jesus cleanses us from “all unrighteousness” (v.9). The blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross “purifies us from all sin” (v.7). And then, just in case we missed it, John says it a third time:


I write to you, dear children, because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name. (1 John 2:12)










 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#13
cont. article by Paul E.

All means all

Jesus doesn’t just deal with the sin of your past, but the sin of your present and future as well. This is great grace! This is the revelation that will empower you to go and sin no more.


My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. (1 John 2:1a)


Confessing sins will not help you overcome sin, but grace will! We don’t confess to expunge sin, we confess to receive grace. Big difference.


If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One. (1 John 2:1b)


The law and grace preacher says, “When you sin, you’d better start talking,” But the apostle John says, “When you sin, Jesus does the talking!”


Why does Jesus talk? Because when you sin the Accuser will accuse you and if no one says anything you’ll end up feeling accused. But listen to the Advocate speaking on your behalf, drawing attention away from your sin and onto his sublime sacrifice, and you’ll feel righteous and clean. You will experience what is already true about you in Christ.


The law and grace preacher says you have a responsibility to deal with your sin. But the gospel declares you have a responsibility to heed the Spirit of Grace as he gently leads you in paths of righteousness. Fact is, you can’t deal with your sin, but grace can!

What is the wrong question?

When you sin there are two questions you can ask. The wrong question is, “What can I do to fix this?” That is the question Adam asked as he reached for the fig leaves. It’s a bad question that will lead to self-trust and death. A better question is, “What has Jesus done to fix this?” and John plainly tells us: He has cleansed us from all unrighteousness!


I hope you can see now that when the law and grace preacher says, “You have to confess to make things right,” he is answering the wrong question. And when John says, “Believe Jesus and have life in his name” (John 20:31), he is answering the right question.


The law and grace preacher says you have to work to make yourself righteous and clean. But John says you need to believe that Christ’s sacrifice cannot be improved upon and that in him you have been eternally cleansed from all unrighteousness.


The problem is you won’t believe if you listen to the Accuser (or the law and grace preacher). Instead, you’ll work to pay the price and do the penance and make yourself clean. Don’t do that, says John:


I write so that you may not sin, but if you do, don’t heed the Accuser; listen to the Advocate! Agree with him and make his words your words. Stop playing the blame game, making excuses, or pretending you can beat this thing. Instead of belly-aching about your imperfections, praise him for his perfections, because that’s where the grace is found – in him!

You want to confess? Then confess this: “By the blood of Jesus I have been cleansed from all unrighteousness. In him I am righteous and free from the power of sin. This is not because of anything I have done, but because of everything he’s done. Thank you, Jesus!


Amen. This is a truth that does not try to mix law and grace. It separates the old covenant from the new. We have to do that in order to understand what the Bible is saying to us today under the new covenant. Because we are not old covenant saints., we are new covenant saints.
 
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Jan 21, 2017
647
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#14
So John called the heretic gnostics his "brethren?"
As Nehemiah stated, its written for God's people. Aint no way John would call gnostics his brethren.

I checked out Paul Ellis' website and he is similar to Joseph Prince in his teachings, all one needs to do is look at the fruit that this movement has produced. This is Oprah feel good christianity. Perfect for the western world.

Notice how Paul Ellis phrased the title "ask the right question"? Well aint that something. Yea, hath God said? Did he really mean confess? Nah, it was probably to the gnostics. "John's epistle to the gnostics".

As for 'mixing law and grace' this type of language is very close to marcionism. How even the very words of Jesus dont matter, because "He lived under the old covenant, and covenant isnt of force while the testator liveth".
Well that logic train cant even reach the first stop because of how a testament works.
While im alive, I will give my testament, then when I pass away, it becomes effective.
Same with Jesus, He spoke His testament while here on earth and after He was buried and resurrected it came into effect. Simple really.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#15
There are those of us Christians who have been forced to look into 1 John 1:9 again and again because we could not wrap our minds (or hearts) around how a Christian who ALREADY righteous IN Christ can step in and out of righteousness as this verse says.

The truth is we have discovered the interpretation we and other believers have made about 1 John 1:9 is wrong. Because in Christ we were already made righteous. We already received the gift of righteousness and we don't change our position in Christ due to behavior. Our behavior is not what made us righteous., Jesus made us righteous. He gave us the gift of righteousness. We can't do that ourselves. It's a gift received not worked into. Jesus did all the work.

This is a major truth because we cannot establish our own righteousness. Think about it. Actually we are warned not to try to establish our own righteousness. That is when we make the sacrifice of Christ "of no effect" in our lives and put ourselves back under the law. Don't do that.

The reason many are sickly among us and many sleep (die) is because they have tried to work to maintain their righteousness and missed the blessings of their salvation while here on earth. We walk in our salvation the same way we got saved.,,, by grace through faith. Walking any other way blocks us off from the life of the Spirit. We have been saved from the law of sin and death. Now we need to walk in newness of life every day establishing the righteousness of Christ.... not our own. Amen!!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,230
692
113
#16
So John called the heretic gnostics his "brethren?"
As Nehemiah stated, its written for God's people. Aint no way John would call gnostics his brethren.

I checked out Paul Ellis' website and he is similar to Joseph Prince in his teachings, all one needs to do is look at the fruit that this movement has produced. This is Oprah feel good christianity. Perfect for the western world.

Notice how Paul Ellis phrased the title "ask the right question"? Well aint that something. Yea, hath God said? Did he really mean confess? Nah, it was probably to the gnostics. "John's epistle to the gnostics".

As for 'mixing law and grace' this type of language is very close to marcionism. How even the very words of Jesus dont matter, because "He lived under the old covenant, and covenant isnt of force while the testator liveth".
Well that logic train cant even reach the first stop because of how a testament works.
While im alive, I will give my testament, then when I pass away, it becomes effective.
Same with Jesus, He spoke His testament while here on earth and after He was buried and resurrected it came into effect. Simple really.
I would say though that John was writing to deal with Gnostic teachings that had started to infiltrate the church.
To ensure and reinforce the believes did not fall foul of the heresy being spouted.
So to me by his writings he is addressing the Gnostic lies and reinforcing the Gospel of Jesus.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#17
Taking these verses to be real (and I do) I must apply them to my life (and I do)


Isaiah 42-45 is a four chapter advertisement for the new covenant. Isaiah 42 tells us about the coming Savior and Isaiah 43 tells us about the “new thing” that He will do. What is the new thing?

“I will blot out your transgressions and remember your sins no more.”

What an amazing new thing! Under the old covenant, sins were recorded and remembered (Lev 4-6). But under the new covenant they would be blotted out and remembered no more. Isaiah was not the only one to see this coming. Here’s Jeremiah:



This is the covenant I will make… I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. (Jer 31:33-34)


Because we are now in this new covenant that was made by God Himself., I gladly enter in with thanksgiving and daily learn about what this new covenant is all about. Amen!




 
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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#18
John 1:17

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]For while the Law was given through Moses, grace ([SUP][a][/SUP]unearned, undeserved favor and spiritual blessing) and truth came through Jesus Christ.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]That is, the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,053
305
83
28
#20
Why is Joseph Prince being brought up on this thread? I didn't once mention or cite him, I used scripture to make my case. Address the scripture if you disagree, and show me why my conclusion doesn't logically follow. I don't know why people keep bringing up Joseph Prince on this site as if that discredits what people are sharing through God's word. I gave scripture, not quotes from Joseph Prince.