SIN DOESN'T MATTER: CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS CLAIM?

[Magenta]

​

. .

 

[CeileDe]

Bible Study Room: Topic 2 Corinths 12 " I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out the body I do not know-God knows. And I know that this man- whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows was caught up in Paradise."

Man in room " he was in the body cos otherwise he is astral projecting and thats wrong cos I used to do it"
Twofeet " the bible says he doesnt know whether he was in his body or not...he doesnt know"
Man in room" I know...he was in his body"
Twofeet " but the bible says even he doesnt know"
Man in room " He was in his body"
Twofeet thinks to herself "wow...lets ignore the bible then shall we saying the man doesnt know but God does?"

How you managed to get from that Sparkman to me having belief in astral projection has had me laughing ever since I seen it.

What is sad, he purposely brought you up in Bible Study chat the other day when I was in there. He tried to get people to side with him and against you and it didn't work. He was shut down pretty quick.

He has an issue with you and it is pretty sad that all he does on this site is complain and attack other members.

 

[BenFTW]

What is sad, he purposely brought you up in Bible Study chat the other day when I was in there. He tried to get people to side with him and against you and it didn't work. He was shut down pretty quick.

He has an issue with you and it is pretty sad that all he does on this site is complain and attack other members.

I know both Sparkman and Twofeet, I've talked with them many times and I enjoy their fellowship. You have to realize from Sparkman's perspective, he is coming from a sincere place as a Shepherd would look over His flock. He is concerned for what people are lapping up and digesting as far as being spiritually fed is concerned. That is admirable, even if his disagreement with Twofeet is unjustified or spoken in ignorance (not an insult).

Now, what he may be disagreeing with may be in poor taste as it isn't harmful what Twofeet is expressing (a supernatural walk, read Acts!). We should be having an experience of a lifetime as we walk with the Lord, feeling fulfilled walking in the path that He has set before us. Its our purpose.

Sure she may operate in different gifts and may experience different supernatural realities than he does, but this by no means should give him cause for concern. If it exalts Christ, then its obviously not of the devil. A house against itself will not stand. So, at the very least, he should acknowledge that he may disagree with such practices, but they still bring glory to God (if indeed they do occur). Admit the plausibility of such actions granted they exalt the Lord.

Anyways...

 

[Andycross]

Bible Study Room: Topic 2 Corinths 12 " I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out the body I do not know-God knows. And I know that this man- whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows was caught up in Paradise."

Man in room " he was in the body cos otherwise he is astral projecting and thats wrong cos I used to do it"
Twofeet " the bible says he doesnt know whether he was in his body or not...he doesnt know"
Man in room" I know...he was in his body"
Twofeet " but the bible says even he doesnt know"
Man in room " He was in his body"
Twofeet thinks to herself "wow...lets ignore the bible then shall we saying the man doesnt know but God does?"

How you managed to get from that Sparkman to me having belief in astral projection has had me laughing ever since I seen it.

Oh dear Sparkman it was enough with the last statement because you didnt get anywhere, you start trying other accusations to.
Its sad really, Ill pray for you brother.

 

[Andycross]

Originally Posted by sparkman

Her other beliefs include astral projection; that a Christian can leave their body and go places

Oh dear Sparkman it wasnt enough with the last statement because you didnt get anywhere, you start trying other accusations to.
Its sad really, Ill pray for you brother.

 

[Johnny_B]

I've heard some professed teachers say sin doesn't matter.

Can you believe these teachers?

No.

Since sin doesn't matter, they have no concern with lying. Therefore, they are not valid sources of information. Their claim is a contradiction.

Reading the apostolic writings should tell you otherwise anyways.

I am surprised when such individuals are respected by some as teachers, though. No, not really...some Christians are gullible.

I am not a legalist, either, and I do believe in grace. I do not believe real Christians should live in condemnation, either. To claim that sin doesn't matter, though, is a statement that cannot be believed, though, because the person demonstrates by their presupposition that they do not value the truth.

Satan is such a bad liar

Brother there are many unregenerate people in the Church buildings, and yes some lead those unregenerate buildings full of unregenerate people and they itch their ears with what they long to hear, you love your sin and it's okay, because God loves you, but He hates your sin, no. He hates you and your sin, He can not separate the two, because of His righteousness and holiness. I pray that the Father calls them, that their hearts are circumcised by the Spirit to hear the Gospel of Christ the word of truth, that they could have faith and repent of their wicked ways.

There is the answer to all those that say why evangelize if God is going to save all the elect, because they need to hear the Gospel of salvation so they can believe and repent. They need to come to the knowledge of sin, so they can see the need for a Savior. Once they see that God's wrath is upon them, then, but Jesus loves you and died for you so that you can be free from sin and be in right standing before a Holy God, if they don't believe and repent, you've done as the Lord commands. Now God ends to bring the increase or the growth.

 

[Johnny_B]

Personally I am vehemently against all forms of sinning as they all bring destruction of some sort to us while on this earth - especially the one of unbelief in Christ's finished work on the cross.

I don't see any difference in sinning by living a homosexual lifestyle to having malice, bitterness and the slandering of others in the body of Christ. Both, as well as all the works of the flesh bring about death to us in this life.

Here is my view on sin and it's affects on us and on how the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of our Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )

Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it also distorts our view of others as well as ourselves. Sin is deceitful.


We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.


Your true identity is not defined by your struggles, mistakes, or sinful actions. These are all confined to the flesh and are the works of the flesh as Paul said. Who you are is defined by your new birth in Christ. You are who you are by His grace and life in you!

Behavioral issues are usually the result of trying to live under the law in some form - such as the false doctrine of "sinless perfection in the flesh".

It is all self-righteousness and denies the righteousness of God in Christ. The law is the strength of sin. The law was brought in so that sin would increase and show that we need a Savior!

Once you understand you are completely accepted and sin free forever in Jesus in your inner man created in righteousness and holiness - and that this is your permanent state for all eternity in Christ - the behavioral issues will fall off of our lives like dead leaves.

The "sap" of His life in and through us transforms us outwardly by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory ( goodness ) of the Lord Jesus as in a mirror. We see all the goodness that He has already done for us and we also see ourselves in Him as one spirit with the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

I maintain that the preaching and teaching of the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ brings true righteousness which is His alone and there will be deeds of His life manifested in us if we are fed Christ Himself and His righteousness to us.

He has cleansed our hearts by faith and now we are to walk from this new heart in Christ.

As we have received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6. It is all by grace through faith in what Christ has already done.

WORD!!! ​

Brother you sound like a Calvinist to the tee.

 

[Johnny_B]

Here is a great 36 minute video about "behavior matters"

[video=youtube;yPFZv08ZCoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPFZv08ZCoY[/video]

I know he probably is not, but he sounds like a Calvinist, in his quote at the 10 to the 10:45 minute mark.

 

[OneFaith]

Yes, sin matters. Even if sin could not cause you to lose your salvation (it can!), what a slap in the face to purposely do the thing that Christ was tortured for- on your behalf! Those whips were meant for you. Those nails were meant for you. How dare you say to Him "Well since You got this, I'm going to get drunk again, cause it's fun. I'm going to lie, steal, and commit adultery, and not put effort into controlling myself, because it's on Your tab."

Whoever views grace as a license to sin is sadly mistaken. The Bible warns that if you sin purposely that His blood will not cover you! (Hebrews 10:26).

Do not deceive yourself, you can fall from grace. It says "there will no longer remain a sacrifice for your sins." "No longer" means it once did! It is possible to lose the gift, to be disqualified. And what causes a disqualification? Deliberate sin! Wake up. "We (Christians) died to sin, how can we live in it any longer?" We can't- because if we do we are no longer Christians.

In Revelation God warns His people to "come out of her"- her being sexual sin. And He warns if they don't they will join in her punishment (hell).

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear, let him see and hear! Understand what the scripture is clearly saying.

 

[Johnny_B]

You may enjoy this teaching on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I remember saying to myself...what's wrong with knowing good and evil when I read Genesis? I don't get it.

Now I do....


[video=youtube;thOWY6obHxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOWY6obHxU[/video]

He went WoF on us, I looked up the Hebrew word for water in Genesis 1:2 and it does not mean "urine" as he stated and where did he get all that information on the tree in the garden getting more water and such. They do people add to the text, what is not there and lie about meanings of words, especially now that we have the internet that gives us excess to Biblical language tools that give the meaning of words in the Hebrew and Greek. By scholars that have years of studying the original languages and have access to the original manuscripts to verify what they are saying a word means.

Once he lied about the meaning of the water, as urine, he kept on with it by saying things about the tree in the garden that were not true, unless I missed something as I was looking up the hebrew word "מָ֫יִם" nothing about urine. I do like that compact Bible he has, I had one, need to replace it.

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Genesis 1:2 ►​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

NASB Lexicon​

[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]NASB ©[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Hebrew[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 10%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Definition[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]The earth[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְהָאָ֗רֶץ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ve·ha·'a·retz[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]776[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]earth, land[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. root[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]was formless[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]תֹ֙הוּ֙[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]to·hu[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]8414[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from an unused word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]and void,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וָבֹ֔הוּ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]va·vo·hu,[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]922[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]emptiness[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from an unused word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]and darkness[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְחֹ֖שֶׁךְ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ve·cho·shech[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2822[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]darkness, obscurity[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from chashak[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]was over[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]עַל־[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]al-[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5921[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]upon, above, over[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from alah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]the surface[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]פְּנֵ֣י[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pe·nei[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]6440[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]face, faces[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from panah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]of the deep,[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]תְהֹ֑ום[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]te·ho·vm;[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]8415[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]deep, sea, abyss[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from an unused word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]and the Spirit[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]וְר֣וּחַ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ve·ru·ach[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]7307[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]breath, wind, spirit[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from an unused word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]of God[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]אֱלֹהִ֔ים[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]e·lo·him,[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]430[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]God, god[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]pl. of eloah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]was moving[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]מְרַחֶ֖פֶת[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]me·ra·che·fet[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]7363b[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to hover[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. root[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]over[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]עַל־[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]al-[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5921[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]upon, above, over[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from alah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]the surface[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]פְּנֵ֥י[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pe·nei[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]6440[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]face, faces[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from panah[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng, align: left"]of the waters.[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]הַמָּֽיִם׃[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ham·ma·yim.[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4325[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]waters, water[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. root[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

KJV Lexicon​

And the earth
'erets (eh'-rets)
the earth (at large, or partitively a land) -- common, country, earth, field, ground, land, natins, way, + wilderness, world.[HR][/HR]was
hayah (haw-yaw)
to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary)[HR][/HR]without form
tohuw (to'-hoo)
a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain -- confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.[HR][/HR]and void
bohuw (bo'-hoo)
a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin -- emptiness, void.[HR][/HR]and darkness
choshek (kho-shek')
the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness -- dark(-ness), night, obscurity.[HR][/HR]was upon the face
paniym (paw-neem')
the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.)[HR][/HR]of the deep
thowm (teh-home')
an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply) -- deep (place), depth.[HR][/HR]And the Spirit
ruwach (roo'-akh)
wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being [HR][/HR]of God
'elohiym (el-o-heem')
angels, exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), (very) great, judges, mighty.[HR][/HR]moved
rachaph (raw-khaf')
to brood; by implication, to be relaxed -- flutter, move, shake.[HR][/HR]upon
`al (al)
above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications (as follow)[HR][/HR]the face
paniym (paw-neem')
the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.)[HR][/HR]of the waters
mayim (mah'-yim)
water; figuratively, juice; by euphemism, urine, semen -- + piss, wasting, water(-ing, (-course, -flood, -spring).

Parallel Verses
New American Standard Bible ​

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

King James Bible​

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Holman Christian Standard Bible​

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness covered the surface of the watery depths, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

International Standard Version​

When the earth was as yet unformed and desolate, with the surface of the ocean depths shrouded in darkness, and while the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters,

NET Bible​

Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water.

GOD'S WORD® Translation​

The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Spirit of God was hovering over the water.

King James 2000 Bible​

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
​

 

[Grace777x70]

I have no idea what a Calvinist believes and I have never read anything from John Calvin which I have heard of. I know there are those that believe God kicks people out of being one with Him and some don't.

I suppose if someone is against what a supposedly Calvinist believes in some way - then it would be good to label such a person.


Maybe the guy gets the "urine" comment from this Hebrew understanding of water and the passing of water. Sometimes little foolish things like this can make us miss the intent of the real teaching and we can lose out.

The noun shayin is derived from HED #8298 and is translated "urine," "(passed) water."

This comment about the term used in reference to "urine" was under the word for "waters "in Gen 1:2

( I would hardly call the mentioning of an obscure use of a word as "lying" in the context it was given)

Figuratively, mayim is used of the "juice" of a plant (Jer. 8:14), euphemistically for urine (Ezek. 47:4)




Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary - The Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary – Sin-Taw.

 

[Grace777x70]

I forgot to put in the Hebrew word for waters in Gen. 1:2. This is where the obscure usage of the word for "urine" comes from that was mentioned in passing.

4448. i‏מַי‎=may

noun
water


Figuratively, mayim ( plural form ) is used of the "juice" of a plant (Jer. 8:14), euphemistically for urine (Ezek. 47:4)

​

Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary - The Complete Biblical Library Hebrew-English Dictionary – Kaph-Mem.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I know he probably is not, but he sounds like a Calvinist, in his quote at the 10 to the 10:45 minute mark.

.......He's not.

 

[sparkman]

What is sad, he purposely brought you up in Bible Study chat the other day when I was in there. He tried to get people to side with him and against you and it didn't work. He was shut down pretty quick.

He has an issue with you and it is pretty sad that all he does on this site is complain and attack other members.

I brought it up to negate her claim that the cat thing was a joke, and as you saw, others responded saying that they did not think she was joking. I only brought it up to prove this to you.

Frankly, though, I don't care. She is apparently trying to backpedal her way out of it. I have heard so many whacky claims over time from her that even if she were joking, it wouldn't matter in regards to my opinion.

I will not be dominated by an aggressive, woman preacher type either. That may be ok in a charismatic church with wishy-washy men but not me.

 

[sparkman]

I know both Sparkman and Twofeet, I've talked with them many times and I enjoy their fellowship. You have to realize from Sparkman's perspective, he is coming from a sincere place as a Shepherd would look over His flock. He is concerned for what people are lapping up and digesting as far as being spiritually fed is concerned. That is admirable, even if his disagreement with Twofeet is unjustified or spoken in ignorance (not an insult).

Now, what he may be disagreeing with may be in poor taste as it isn't harmful what Twofeet is expressing (a supernatural walk, read Acts!). We should be having an experience of a lifetime as we walk with the Lord, feeling fulfilled walking in the path that He has set before us. Its our purpose.

Sure she may operate in different gifts and may experience different supernatural realities than he does, but this by no means should give him cause for concern. If it exalts Christ, then its obviously not of the devil. A house against itself will not stand. So, at the very least, he should acknowledge that he may disagree with such practices, but they still bring glory to God (if indeed they do occur). Admit the plausibility of such actions granted they exalt the Lord.

Anyways...

I appreciate your comment and attitude, Ben, but I do not acknowledge her claims. The fact that she claims God punishes those who disagree with her, giving the example of a man who ended up in the hospital and dead after such an event, indicates some serious issues.

However, I'm just going to drop it on this forum. My original intention was to shame those who practice similar behavior into considering the effect it has on seekers, but it's hopeless. There's every brand of whackiness on this site, including hers.

I'm just glad I didn't come in contact with extreme weirdos like some on this site as a young Christian. To be honest, even the cultic group was more sane. I pity the seekers who run into such nuts.

 

[sparkman]

My last post on this thread.

 

[stonesoffire]

I apologize to the member "twofeet" for joking about "what the cat says" in the other thread. I just read what this is all about, and I find no fault in anything she has said.

My problem is limited time...so am going to make an effort to really understand a thread before posting.

My answer to this thread though...sin is dead works. We are alive unto God but do we realize what we have initially?

I think not. Takes time and study...and good teachers.

 

[stonesoffire]

Sparkman, I have heard some say this to others. Is a fear tactic and a controlling spirit.

Not good.

 

[followjesus]

Yep. That system would be called Free Grace Theology and the proponents of that system are Chuck Swindoll, Charles Ryrie, Charles Stanley, Tony Evans and many others. It is also a huge part of the theology at DTS.

indeed , yet when we study the word of God it is evident that this false doctrine was present and becoming an issue in the early days of the church. so many of pauls epistles deal with it, but the modernity of mankind and christianity eliminates pauls many many clear warnings against distorting grace to be a free pass on how we act and live. The truth is the One and only solution, and we Know that Jesus is that truth, and spoke that truth that is the Gospel.

The issue was created when adam and eve broke faith with God. They doubted His word was true when He said " you will surely die" and the enemy planted the exact opposite in thier mind " you will not surely die" these two statements one is true and the other is a lie. there is no difference in that doctrine today it still comes from the enemy of God and oppresor of man. ANY theology that rests on the principle what we do after coming to Christ has no bearing on our eternal Life, is 100 percent false.

Satan will always say the same thing " Gods Word doesnt matter" doesnt apply to you" "the truth really is....this other thing" its His m.o. and is easy to see through. even when dressed up nicely to be made attractive with words like grace being distorted to omit the truth, or any new " revolutionary" interpretation of Gods word. satan will always be saying the same thing in different ways. when the principle is " you dont really need to do what God said to do" the word is NOT from God. He will never come into agreement with satan, His way was rather to empower and renew mankind to Love what is right and hate what is evil whether a lie, a theft, a murder, adultery ect God will never change, His word has the power to change us.

 

[preacher4truth]

indeed , yet when we study the word of God it is evident that this false doctrine was present and becoming an issue in the early days of the church. so many of pauls epistles deal with it, but the modernity of mankind and christianity eliminates pauls many many clear warnings against distorting grace to be a free pass on how we act and live. The truth is the One and only solution, and we Know that Jesus is that truth, and spoke that truth that is the Gospel.

The issue was created when adam and eve broke faith with God. They doubted His word was true when He said " you will surely die" and the enemy planted the exact opposite in thier mind " you will not surely die" these two statements one is true and the other is a lie. there is no difference in that doctrine today it still comes from the enemy of God and oppresor of man. ANY theology that rests on the principle what we do after coming to Christ has no bearing on our eternal Life, is 100 percent false.

Satan will always say the same thing " Gods Word doesnt matter" doesnt apply to you" "the truth really is....this other thing" its His m.o. and is easy to see through. even when dressed up nicely to be made attractive with words like grace being distorted to omit the truth, or any new " revolutionary" interpretation of Gods word. satan will always be saying the same thing in different ways. when the principle is " you dont really need to do what God said to do" the word is NOT from God. He will never come into agreement with satan, His way was rather to empower and renew mankind to Love what is right and hate what is evil whether a lie, a theft, a murder, adultery ect God will never change, His word has the power to change us.

I would further qualify this by saying that what we do after salvation adds nothing nor detracts anything from the gift of eternal life given. Yet, if there is no evidence of conversion, there was no conversion.