So what about the fourth commandment?

[Grace777x70]

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.

Satan uses the law against us. Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".

If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

 

[beta]

Thank you captain obvious! I say "the law of Moses" expecting people to know that in labeling it as such, that they know that I am speaking about the law that God gave through Moses to Israel. You don't see Paul in scripture explaining that the law was given by God to Moses every time he taught on it. In fact, in many scriptures he just referred to it as "the law." I'm doing the same. Most people know where the law came from. My point is that, believers in Christ are not under the law of ordinances and written code. We are in Christ and led by the Spirit of God. Putting oneself under the law brings wrath and condemnation when we break it. For the power of sin is the law. Christ met the righteous requirements of the law perfectly, satisfying God's requirements for its fulfillment. We are free in Christ. Let us use that freedom for righteousness sake unto good works for the glory of God.

When you 'lump all the laws together and treat them 'as one and the same you are missing the point that there is a difference between spiritual and physical laws.
Since the law contained in ordinances has been fulfilled Eph2v15 why do people believe it also contained the Commandments which are spiritual, and hence their rejection of the Sabbath ? Nobody would ever suggest that we can stop observing the last 5 Commands ? If we break one it's as if we break all....there is no picking and choosing.
There is no freedom in Christ to continue in sin...and transgressing/breaking the law is sin 1Joh 3v4, meaning the spiritual law of Commandments. The Holy Spirit of God would want you (the new man) to be obedient to Him as was His Son Jesus who always did the things that pleased His Father....and through/by the power of His Spirit we can too. The purpose of our calling is to be 'conformed to the image of His Son !

 

[Wall]

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say .......

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now from you Grace777. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

 

[Grace777x70]

ACTS 25 [7] And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove. [8] While he answered for himself, NEITHER AGAINST THE LAW OF THE JEWS, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, HAVE I OFFENDED ANY THING AT ALL.

Looks like the Jews of Pauls time were saying the same things im hearing now from you Grace777. Paul set them straight. He has done nothing to offend the law of the Jews

Paul didn't break any of the laws of the Jews because he lived in Christ. Christ is our fulfillment of the Law. I think when you hear people saying that we don't follow the Law now because we are in Christ - you think people are saying it's ok to steal and murder now but the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus stops that now. We live by His life in us.

We don't go back and live by the Law. Again here is what Paul said about the Law and real Christians relationship to it now that they are in Christ.

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

There were Judaizers coming in after Paul preached to gospel of the grace of Christ that were trying to get people to go back and live by the Law. Paul had some very harsh words for these Judaizers and there are modern day Judaizers trying to do the same thing today.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here Paul is telling the Galatians that he nor those with him stood for these Judaizers for one minute trying to get the gentiles to go back under the Law.

Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

We are not going to give in for one hour either to the Judaizers that try to get Christians to live under the Law and to pervert the gospel and try to cause Christians to desert Christ.

 

[disciplemike]

Circumcision is a sign. Either fleshly circumcision, or circumcision of the heart, which God always preferred, even in the Old Testament. This is why Sha-ul can be so adamant. He saw the "sign" first-hand. When the new believers received the Ruach HaKodesh, (the Holy Spirit), he knew that was the sign! Their hearts were circumcised!

 

[Grace777x70]

Galatians 5:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 6:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

 

[Wall]

Here Paul is telling the Galatians that he nor those with him stood for these Judaizers for one minute trying to get the gentiles to go back under the Law.

Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

We are not going to give in for one hour either to the Judaizers that try to get Christians to live under the Law and to pervert the gospel and try to cause Christians to desert Christ.

Hmmmm...I wonder.Is galatians 2 talking about the 10 commandments or circumcision

Galatians 2:2-5 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Id have to be blind not to know the answer. Yikes!

 

[Wall]

Galatians 5:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 6:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Once again. Just like i said. Pointing to scriptures that are talking about circumcision and then applying those scriptures to the 10 commandments

 

[Wall]

To all you illegalist who point to scriptures that are talking about circumcision. I know we need not be circumcisized

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Out of the writings of Paul. Circumcision not to be followed. The commandments of God are to be followed. Pretty simple

 

[Grace777x70]

Hmmmm...I wonder.Is galatians 2 talking about the 10 commandments or circumcision

Galatians 2:2-5 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Id have to be blind not to know the answer. Yikes!

Romans 3:19-22 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

[SUP]21 [/SUP] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

[SUP]22 [/SUP] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

James says that if you break one Law - like circumcision - you are guilty of all.

James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Christians are not under the Law in any form because we have died to the Law SO THAT we could be joined to Another. To go back to the Law for living is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 7:1-6

 

[Wall]

James says that if you break one Law - like circumcision - you are guilty of all.

James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

This is so funny

James 2:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Now your pointing to a scripture that is clearly speaking of the 10 commandments and saying its talking about circumcision.

YIKES!

 

[disciplemike]

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Colossians 2:11 (KJV, MBM)

 

[Grace777x70]

This is so funny

James 2:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Now your pointing to a scripture that is clearly speaking of the 10 commandments and saying its talking about circumcision.

YIKES!

What that scripture is saying is that if you fail to keep one aspect of the Law - you have guilty of it all - including circumcision which is a part of the Law.

Going back to the Law for living is anti-Christ beliefs. Remember Paul said in the last days people would not be "anti-God" but that they would be "anti-Christ".

We have died to the Law so that we could be joined to Another which is our Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6.

No one here is going to commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus Christ no matter what you do to pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ to try to make Christians to come back under the Law.

We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus

The law of love ( love is the fulfillment of the Law )

The law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith )

The law of liberty in Christ Jesus

The law of Christ - Himself.

We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God now. ( Col. 3:3 ) We don't need to "obey" an old covenant law that is obsolete now that we are in Christ.

I don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with animals. The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop that.

We can trust the life of Christ in us. We can trust the Holy Spirit now.

Come to Christ - Wall and disciplemike and as you have received Him - so walk in Him!

Galatians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

[SUP]2 [/SUP] This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[Wall]

What that scripture is saying is that if you fail to keep one aspect of the Law - you have guilty of it all - including circumcision which is a part of the Law.

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, AND a law, AND commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.


Do ya see the word AND? The law and the commandments are separate. Can you see that?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Gandalf's point to ponder on this week-end

I wonder how many times Jesus was scoffed for not keeping the law like the Jews or having to much grace?

Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves are we not doing the same...

 

[beta]

What that scripture is saying is that if you fail to keep one aspect of the Law - you have guilty of it all - including circumcision which is a part of the Law.

Going back to the Law for living is anti-Christ beliefs. Remember Paul said in the last days people would not be "anti-God" but that they would be "anti-Christ".

We have died to the Law so that we could be joined to Another which is our Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6.

No one here is going to commit spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus Christ no matter what you do to pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ to try to make Christians to come back under the Law.

We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus

The law of love ( love is the fulfillment of the Law )

The law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith )

The law of liberty in Christ Jesus

The law of Christ - Himself.

We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God now. ( Col. 3:3 ) We don't need to "obey" an old covenant law that is obsolete now that we are in Christ.

I don't need to "obey" Lev. 18:23 to not have sex with animals. The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop that.

We can trust the life of Christ in us. We can trust the Holy Spirit now.

Come to Christ - Wall and disciplemike and as you have received Him - so walk in Him!

Galatians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

[SUP]2 [/SUP]This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Physical circumcition is of the ''works of the law/ordinances which became obsolete in Christ...these laws were abolished at the cross, NOT the spiritual law of the Commandments which are a 'separate self-contained law given by GOD personally Ex 20v1, Deut 5v22, GOD spoke the Commands to the people....they did not originate with Moses but GOD HIMSELF.
It is a mistake to mix them together with the law contained in ordinances/works which started with/were given through Moses.
We have to DISCERN between what is spiritual and eternal and what is physical and temporal.Have a look at Eph 2v15 and see which laws Jesus paid for with His life and there is no mention of it being the 'spiritual law which is eternal holy, just and good Rom 7....but the ordinances or works were abolished and there is no going back to them.

 

[TMS]

Are we sinners?
What shows that we are a sinner?
What makes people sinners today?

 

[beta]

Are we sinners?
What shows that we are a sinner?
What makes people sinners today?

1Joh 3v4, ....SIN is the TRANSGRESSION of the law ! which law ? the Commandments which are spiritual. eternal, holy, just and good !

 

[beta]

Gandalf's point to ponder on this week-end

I wonder how many times Jesus was scoffed for not keeping the law like the Jews or having to much grace?

Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves are we not doing the same...

We are not expected to keep the law according to the Jews....they made mistakes as all Humans do.
WE are expected to walk WITH JESUS 24/7 (like a true loyal disciple)....and HE kept His Fathers Commandments. Christians walk AWAY from Jesus on the Sabbath to follow their OWN activities then 'piously gather on sunday which was never hallowed or sanctified. Is that being a TRUE disciple ?