So what about the fourth commandment?

[Dan_473]

[video=youtube_share;mUZ87TVUCcM]http://youtu.be/mUZ87TVUCcM[/video]



What Does the Bible Say About Stoning? In the Bible, for What Crimes Was Being Stoned the Punishment?

Stoning is a method of execution during which a group of people, usually peers of the guilty party, throws stones at the condemned person until he or she dies. Death by stoning was prescribed in the Old Testament Law as a punishment for various sins. Both animals and people could be the subjects of stoning (Exodus 21:28), and stoning seems to have been associated with sins that caused irreparable damage to the spiritual or ceremonial purity of a person or an animal.

Some sins that resulted in stoning in the Old Testament were murder (Leviticus 24:17), idolatry (Deuteronomy 17:2–5), approaching near to Mount Sinai while the presence of God was there (Exodus 19:12–13), practicing necromancy or the occult (Leviticus 20:27), and blaspheming the name of the Lord (Leviticus 24:16). Stoning was probably the punishment for various types of sexual sin, as well (Deuteronomy 22:24); the related passages in Leviticus 20 do not specify the method of execution, only that the guilty party was to be “put to death.”

The Mosaic Law specified that, before anyone could be put to death by stoning, there had to be a trial, and at least two witnesses had to testify: “On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness” (Deuteronomy 17:6). Those witnesses “must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people” (verse 7). In other words, those who testified against the condemned person in court had to cast the first stone. Examples of stonings in the Old Testament are the deaths of Achan and his family (Joshua 7:25) and Naboth, who was condemned by false witnesses (1 Kings 21).

Stoning was the method of execution chosen by the unbelieving Jews who persecuted the early Christians. Stephen, the church’s first martyr, was stoned to death outside of Jerusalem by the Sanhedrin. On that occasion, a young man named Saul, who later became the apostle Paul, held the coats of those who cast the stones (Acts 7:54–60).

In another famous passage of Scripture, the Pharisees tried to entrap Jesus into granting approval for the stoning of a woman caught in the act of adultery. Significantly, the adulterous man was absent—the Law prescribed death for both the guilty parties. Jesus’ response is interesting. The woman was clearly guilty, but Jesus understood the duplicity of His enemies. Instead of giving them a direct answer, Jesus turned to those who had dragged the woman before Him and said, “Whichever of you is free from sin, throw the first stone” (John 8:1–11). By this, Jesus is asking for the witnesses to step forward—the witnesses, bound by an oath, were the ones to cast the first stones. He also shows the compassionate heart of God toward the sinner and silences the mob’s hypocritical allegations.

Another mode of execution that was also considered stoning involved throwing the guilty party headlong down a steep place and then rolling a large stone onto the body. This is exactly what a mob in Nazareth tried to do to Jesus after His speech in their synagogue. Hearing His claim to be the Messiah, “they got up, drove [Jesus] out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff” (Luke 4:29). Jesus’ deliverance from this angry mob was miraculous: “He walked right through the crowd and went on his way” (verse 30). It was not the Lord’s time to die (see John 10:18), and He could never have died by stoning because the prophecy said none of His bones would be broken (John 19:36).

Stoning is a horrible way to die. That particular manner of execution must have been a strong deterrent against committing the sins deemed offensive enough to merit stoning. God cares very much about the purity of His people. The strict punishment for sin during the time of the Law helped deter people from adopting the impure practices of their pagan neighbors and rebelling against God. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Israel was given a stern commandment to stay pure: “You must purge the evil from among you” (Deuteronomy 17:7).

(I didn't watch the youtube video... if you'd like to put it in your own words, that would be great)

so... if you lived in a land that allowed stoning, would you participate?

 

[Dan_473]

You are quite right to ask this question,friend !
Let me point you to JESUS....Why did HE associate with sinners when He was not one of them ?

if a person believes that not keeping the sabbath is sinning...

we are not to associate with people who claim to be Christians and continue in a lifestyle of obvious willful sin.

11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 cor+5&version=nasb

 

[beta]

if a person believes that not keeping the sabbath is sinning...

we are not to associate with people who claim to be Christians and continue in a lifestyle of obvious willful sin.
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral peron, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20cor+5&version=nasb

Jesus 'associated with people of different Belief in order to give them the truth - that is not called 'fellowshipping.
We are not discussing the 'morality or lack of, but more like being 'obedient to the Word or lack of. Not the same thing at all.
We are not to 'turn our back on those who need to hear the truth.....but of course they can reject it !

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus 'associated with people of different Belief in order to give them the truth - that is not called 'fellowshipping.
We are not discussing the 'morality or lack of, but more like being 'obedient to the Word or lack of. Not the same thing at all.
We are not to 'turn our back on those who need to hear the truth.....but of course they can reject it !

do you believe that a person who willfully and continually breaks the sabbath is sinning?

 

[disciplemike]

do you believe that a person who willfully and continually breaks the sabbath is sinning?

yes. violation of a commandment is sin.

 

[Dan_473]

yes. violation of a commandment is sin.

if a person keeps the sabbath by loving their neighbor and considering all days alike, is that a sinful lifestyle, in your view?

 

[abcdef]

yes. violation of a commandment is sin.

I'm sure you've heard this one before,

Col 2:16-17,

v 16, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

v 17, "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

-------------------------------------

You are relying on a ritual.

It is a shadow of the substance which is in Jesus and His blood/grace.

You are saying that, if I keep the Sabbath ritual of not working, I am pleasing Jesus.
-----
But what about the Pharisee's,

They kept the Sabbath "roboticly",

It was a ritual that they kept, thinking that they were pleasing God,

But their hearts weren't in it.

But they obeyed the letter of the Law.

But their hearts weren't in it.

This is what it seems like that you are saying to me,

If you keep the robotic ritual of not working on the Sabbath, it will please God.

-----------------

It is a ritual, it is a shadow, of the substance (blood/grace) that we have in Jesus.

You can't be "in" Jesus and be standing in His "shadow" at the same time.

 

[disciplemike]

I'm sure you've heard this one before,

Col 2:16-17,

v 16, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

v 17, "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

-------------------------------------

You are relying on a ritual..

I don't allow anyone to judge because I keep the appointed times of God, and His dietary instructions!
Sir, you call it a ritual. The Almighty God calls it "My Feasts" (appointed times).
I think I should listen to God, rather than men.

 

[disciplemike]

if a person keeps the sabbath by loving their neighbor and considering all days alike, is that a sinful lifestyle, in your view?

if you consider all days alike, yes, it is sin.
considering all days alike means they are all common, "alike". None of them are holy.

 

[abcdef]

I don't allow anyone to judge because I keep the appointed times of God, and His dietary instructions!
Sir, you call it a ritual. The Almighty God calls it "My Feasts" (appointed times).
I think I should listen to God, rather than men.

What I see is some one teaching and judging others, saying that they must observe Sabbaths days, times, dietary laws etc., or it is sin.

You don't want others judging you because you keep the Sabbath and certain laws,

But you turn and judge them, on the same basis, that they don't keep them.

==========================

These observances of the Sabbath and feasts ARE RITUALS/SHADOWS that do not give us salvation or the perfection that we find in Jesus.

There is no substance to them, as in the body of Christ.

You cannot receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit through the Law of Moses.

The law makes no one perfect.

=========================

To teach that we MUST live according to the Law of Moses, and observe it's ritual Sabbaths and ritual festivals or it is sin, is just proving that you are a slave to the Law of Moses and not free from the Law in Christ.

Jesus died to set you free from the law of sin and death,

Break free of your chains of the law, and don't go back.

Live free and confident in the substance of His blood, the promise of His grace, and the freedom of the Spirit.

Don't let your spiritual life be governed by the moon or sun, or this earthly/material world.

======================

The observance of the Sabbath is just a shadow.

A shadow,

A shadow.

 

[Wall]

The observance of the Sabbath is just a shadow.

A shadow,

A shadow.

No its not. No its not. No its not.

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ORDINANCES {meat and drink offerings} has been blotted out. They were the shadow

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings. They were the shadow of Christ


JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.


Now you show me where in the bible youll find the sabbath being a shadow of Christ. Show me where Christ says my flesh is sabbath indeed and my blood is sabbath indeed. What is so hard to understand.

 

[beta]

if a person keeps the sabbath by loving their neighbor and considering all days alike, is that a sinful lifestyle, in your view?

You are only ref to the 2nd Command of loving neighbour....
what happened to 'loving GOD ?
GOD never said that 'all days were alike....the Sabbath is 'scripturally holy time to GOD....and He has never changed it.

 

[disciplemike]

The observance of the Sabbath is just a shadow.

A shadow,

A shadow.

odd that no one ever says "Thou shalt not murder" is just a shadow.

 

[FreeNChrist]

odd that no one ever says "Thou shalt not murder" is just a shadow.

Jesus did,

“You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell." Matt. 5:21-22

 

[jcha]

(I didn't watch the youtube video... if you'd like to put it in your own words, that would be great)

so... if you lived in a land that allowed stoning, would you participate?

Do you believe in capital punishment? God does and He in Torah has a system how it is carried out by the elders who sit in the gate. No where on earth at this present time are those elders functioning. Capital punishment required two or more witnesses and one or more warnings. The witnesses were to throw the first stones. The elders are called the Sanhedrin and is made up of 72 men (the elders). During Christ's time, Rome was the ruling government and therefore Roman law was the governing authority.

Would I participate under lawful circumstances? My flesh says no. But isn't this as emotional as not denying Jesus and being beheaded for keeping God's commandments and the testimony of Jesus?

What we actually do when it comes to THAT moment, defines our belief and trust and hope in the one true LORD.

 

[Dan_473]

if you consider all days alike, yes, it is sin.
considering all days alike means they are all common, "alike". None of them are holy.

(well, or they are all holy)


so why I'm asking about sinful lifestyles and stuff is that I assume we'd agree that a person who continues in a significant willful sinful lifestyle is not saved.

that would mean the majority of users here on CC wouldn't be saved.

so... are you here to preach to the lost? that's a good goal, but it's not in keeping with the intention of the CC administrator.

"2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.

We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but

if anyone is not here for fellowship

(or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome."

Rules - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums


(I hope you decide you are here to fellowship with the majority of CC users.)

 

[Dan_473]

You are only ref to the 2nd Command of loving neighbour....
what happened to 'loving GOD ?
GOD never said that 'all days were alike....the Sabbath is 'scripturally holy time to GOD....and He has never changed it.

I'm just going by what I've read...

"14 The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gal+5&version=nirv

loving God is the greatest commandment, but I can't find a place where it says it fulfills all the commandments... which passages in the bible talk about one or more commandments that fulfill all the rest?

 

[Dan_473]

Do you believe in capital punishment? God does and He in Torah has a system how it is carried out by the elders who sit in the gate. No where on earth at this present time are those elders functioning. Capital punishment required two or more witnesses and one or more warnings. The witnesses were to throw the first stones. The elders are called the Sanhedrin and is made up of 72 men (the elders). During Christ's time, Rome was the ruling government and therefore Roman law was the governing authority.

Would I participate under lawful circumstances? My flesh says no. But isn't this as emotional as not denying Jesus and being beheaded for keeping God's commandments and the testimony of Jesus?

What we actually do when it comes to THAT moment, defines our belief and trust and hope in the one true LORD.

" The elders are called the Sanhedrin and is made up of 72 men (the elders)."

is that in Torah or a man-made rule?




"My flesh says no."

sounds to me like the law hasn't done it's full work in you. the law is good, just, pure... and brings us delight and rejoicing!

 

[Dan_473]

Do you believe in capital punishment?

it's not something I personally would want to take part in... but I think it probably could have its place

"There is a time to kill.
And there’s a time to heal."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ecc+3&version=nirv

 

[beta]

I'm just going by what I've read...

"14 The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”"

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gal+5&version=nirv

loving God is the greatest commandment, but I can't find a place where it says it fulfills all the commandments... which passages in the bible talk about one or more commandments that fulfill all the rest?

And your intent is to get rid of people who do not agree with you by calling them Offenders etc ?
Well, that's one way to treat your neighbour...apart from stoning them, which you also seem to approve of.

Now we can see how well 'love' works without the first Commandment. Jesus mentions two and none are greater than these Mk 12v29-31. The second does not have priority over the first !