sola scriptura is against 2Peter1:20

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H

Hearer

Guest
#1
#1
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20 (Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.
 
D

Dominion

Banned
#2
Jul 25, 2011
68
0
0
#2
Too bad the Church has failed at all those things, eh? Maybe in another 2000 years they can get their act together, but I'm not going to wait that long.
 
G

GOD_IS_LOVE

Senior Member
#3
Mar 16, 2009
306
4
18
#3
Just read that verse again and pay attention to what it refers to. It refers precisely to prophecies.

As to the interpretation of God's word in general: "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." (1John 2:27)
God bless you!
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#4
#4
GOD_IS_LOVE said:
Just read that verse again and pay attention to what it refers to. It refers precisely to prophecies.

As to the interpretation of God's word in general: "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." (1John 2:27)
God bless you!
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This passage must be read in context. John is teaching that the teaching already received from the church and from scripture which has been confirmed by the holy spiirit must not be contradicted by rebels who have gone from them with a false teaching.

It is thus a teaching about false teachers. If you are not to be taught by absolutely anyone then you mjust not be taught by this human (i.e. John) about not being taught of men.

That is a logical contradiction. Only if you take it a teaching by a man called John against other false men does it make sense.
 
G

GOD_IS_LOVE

Senior Member
#5
Mar 16, 2009
306
4
18
#5
Hearer said:
This passage must be read in context. John is teaching that the teaching already received from the church and from scripture which has been confirmed by the holy spiirit must not be contradicted by rebels who have gone from them with a false teaching.

It is thus a teaching about false teachers. If you are not to be taught by absolutely anyone then you mjust not be taught by this human (i.e. John) about not being taught of men.

That is a logical contradiction. Only if you take it a teaching by a man called John against other false men does it make sense.
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You just interpreted this passage for me. Are you a clergyman? :)
And also, just wondering, when you say we should only accept the interpretation of the Church, which church are we talking about, cause their interpretations differ too. And is not the church made up by individuals too? If you'll read the Bible more you'll see that it is stated there that those who follow Christ are a royal priesthood, and this is connected to the anointing referred to in the passage I quoted.
I pray God gives you that anointing so that you'll see that you ARE the church.
God bless!
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
#6
#6
Hearer said:
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20 (Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.
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What is the Church? Does the Church have one head, Jesus Christ? Or two heads, as Catholicism teaches? Is the pope of Rome infallible? How can the pope of Rome as successor of Saint Peter be infallible, when Saint Peter wasn't infallible? See Saint Paul who said of Saint Peter, "I withstood him to the faced, because he was to be blamed". Doesn't sound like Saint Peter, if he was the "first pope of Rome", was infallible. And if Saint Peter wasn't infallible, none of his successors as popes could be infallible, either. Simple logic.
The truth will set you free.

 
H

Hearer

Guest
#7
#7
GOD_IS_LOVE said:
You just interpreted this passage for me. Are you a clergyman? :)
And also, just wondering, when you say we should only accept the interpretation of the Church, which church are we talking about, cause their interpretations differ too. And is not the church made up by individuals too? If you'll read the Bible more you'll see that it is stated there that those who follow Christ are a royal priesthood, and this is connected to the anointing referred to in the passage I quoted.
I pray God gives you that anointing so that you'll see that you ARE the church.
God bless!
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I am part of the church, but I trust the tried and tested spirit-led interpretations given to many others through the ages. Just as John who wrote John1 (so they say) was led by his tradition and the wisdom of the other apostles.

The point is not that spirit-led interpreters such as yourself are necessarily wrong, but that the can be naiive, i.e. the teachings can lack depth and wholeness and richness and completeness as well as lack the authenticity which elders have in the long walk with Jesus.

It is just personal pride to assume the HS will tell you everythin there is to know about a passage. God might just be teaching you one thing at a very personal level which as a serious student of the bible you might lose out on learning more because of your personal approach.

After all which individual HS led person today (yes I mean today) came up with the story of the full plan of salvation revealed throughout the bible. That has to be knowlledge received from a shared pool.

think how much more you can learn from studying generations of scholars who have dedicated their whole lives to the HS and to Scriptures.
 
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F

FireOnTheAltar

Guest
#8
#8
While I believe that scripture should be taken literally, I feel that many take it too literally to the point that they actually dismiss several significant passages of scripture because they believe the scripture to be no longer relevant. This makes no sense personally, to embrace parts of the bible and dismissing others all the while boasting that they embrace the entire bible to be the word of God. You can't embrace parts without embracing all.
 
N

needmesomejesus

Guest
#9
#9
Hearer said:
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20 (Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.
Click to expand...

It says prophecy of Scripture not just scriptures
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#10
#10
FireOnTheAltar said:
While I believe that scripture should be taken literally, I feel that many take it too literally to the point that they actually dismiss several significant passages of scripture because they believe the scripture to be no longer relevant. This makes no sense personally, to embrace parts of the bible and dismissing others all the while boasting that they embrace the entire bible to be the word of God. You can't embrace parts without embracing all.
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I agree. What they do is prove-text the bible breaking it into the bits that prove their pet interpretations without taking the whole bible and other scriptures fairly into account. This means that literal and literalistic interpretations are confused. For example Jesus did not lietral;ly mean that if we sin we must cut off our hand. That is hyperbole - afigure of speach well know to many cutlures.

But he meant it literally that we should gnaw at his body and drink his blood - so that he was able to provide it for us in the form of bread and wine - in the same miraculous was that manna was provided in the desert.

God is the God of miracles but we must not be literalistic either or simplistic. The correct interpretaions have been worked out over generations.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#11
#11
needmesomejesus said:
It says prophecy of Scripture not just scriptures
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it means that the prophecies in scripture cannot be interpreted just by individuals. So it refers to scripture where the scripture contains prophecies.
 
W

Warrior44

Guest
#12
#12
Scotth1960 said:
What is the Church? Does the Church have one head, Jesus Christ? Or two heads, as Catholicism teaches? Is the pope of Rome infallible? How can the pope of Rome as successor of Saint Peter be infallible, when Saint Peter wasn't infallible? See Saint Paul who said of Saint Peter, "I withstood him to the faced, because he was to be blamed". Doesn't sound like Saint Peter, if he was the "first pope of Rome", was infallible. And if Saint Peter wasn't infallible, none of his successors as popes could be infallible, either. Simple logic.
The truth will set you free.
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You say the truth will set you free. You should find out the truth of what the Catholic Church teaches. Catholics DO NOT acknowledge two heads of the church. That's ridiculous. There is one head, Christ Jesus. The Bible says this so so do we. The pope is the physical representation of Christ here on earth. He leads us physically because he is guided by the Holy Spirit. And do you really understand the infallibility of the pope? if you did then you would know that it does not mean the pope is perfect or does not sin. Jesus made St. Peter the first pope. Do you think he knew of Peters weaknesses? Do you think he knew that Peter denied even knowing Him three times? Of course. But He made him the first pope anyway. This of course doesnt give popes or anyone a licence to sin. But rather it testifys to the fact that the pope is not perfect.
 
R

Rosewater

Guest
#13
#13
Warrior44 said:
Jesus made St. Peter the first pope. Do you think he knew of Peters weaknesses? Do you think he knew that Peter denied even knowing Him three times? Of course. But He made him the first pope anyway. This of course doesnt give popes or anyone a licence to sin. But rather it testifys to the fact that the pope is not perfect.
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The thing is Protestants say the Bible does not say Peter is the first pope, that Catholics are mistaken and heretics in saying this. Then everything goes to pot from there - we're just pagans, not Christians at all.
 
W

Warrior44

Guest
#14
#14
Rosewater said:
The thing is Protestants say the Bible does not say Peter is the first pope, that Catholics are mistaken and heretics in saying this. Then everything goes to pot from there - we're just pagans, not Christians at all.
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Yes. Unfortunately we will always have haters. But the Protestants weren't there 2000 years ago when it all started. And nothing they can say will change that. So.....i believe the guys who were. They say Peter was the first pope. And Catholics not being Christians is ridiculous. We were the first Christians. The ones who invented the word. Ask the Protestants on this site how they would define Christian. Bet you don't get 2 of the same answers. How then can you claim that anyone isn't Christian?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#15
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
Hearer said:
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20 (Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.
Click to expand...
that's not what that means.
Peter means the opposite.
He means the men who penned the Books, recorded the words of the prophets etc did not do so according to their own PRIVATE ideas or whims.
they were inspired by God.

he means there's only ONE answer to whatever problem we encounter in understanding - the problem is in our understanding.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
#16
Hearer said:
The interpretation of scriptures is not for individuals.

2 Peter 1:20 (Amp bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).

In fact the very nature of the bible is that it belongs as a whole book to the Church. The Church has the job of interpreting the prophecies and messages contained in the bibleand transmitting it to the members.

So for someone to say that they have sufficient holiness and sanctity as well as a full enough share of the Holy Spirit to replace the authority of the Church is being very prideful.
Click to expand...
2 Peter 1 is saying that prophesy is the wor4ds of God. And not open to anyone to interpret it any way they please. That is all. It is not saying that only the church can interpret. This is taking a verse out of context and trying to force it to back your belief!

Just because someone CAN misinterpret scripture does not mean scripture is not our ultimate guide. or we should just ignore it. God holds us accountable how we interpret it. Not how men interpret it. When you stand in front of God. Your not going to be judged because you listened to the wrong man or the wrong church, You will be judged on how YOU interpreted his word.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Warrior44 said:
Yes. Unfortunately we will always have haters. But the Protestants weren't there 2000 years ago when it all started. And nothing they can say will change that. So.....i believe the guys who were. They say Peter was the first pope. And Catholics not being Christians is ridiculous. We were the first Christians. The ones who invented the word. Ask the Protestants on this site how they would define Christian. Bet you don't get 2 of the same answers. How then can you claim that anyone isn't Christian?
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Wow. Talked about a person who has believed the propaganda spread by a particular church. There is only one gospel. The catholic church claims there are many gospels. This alone makes the catholic churche's interpretation of the word faulty, and not to be believed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
#18
GOD_IS_LOVE said:
Just read that verse again and pay attention to what it refers to. It refers precisely to prophecies.

As to the interpretation of God's word in general: "But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." (1John 2:27)
God bless you!
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Thanks, excellent point. I doubt to many will listen though.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
#19
Hearer said:
This passage must be read in context. John is teaching that the teaching already received from the church and from scripture which has been confirmed by the holy spiirit must not be contradicted by rebels who have gone from them with a false teaching.

It is thus a teaching about false teachers. If you are not to be taught by absolutely anyone then you mjust not be taught by this human (i.e. John) about not being taught of men.

That is a logical contradiction. Only if you take it a teaching by a man called John against other false men does it make sense.
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John was inspired by God to write the words he wrote. To ignore him is to ignore God.

After scripture was completed. God no longer needed to inspire men to write his word. So anything you listen to comes from men. Unless the words of men can be confirmed by scripture. If scripture is not our ultimate guide. all we have is chaos. Which we had for some 400 yeaqrs. Until the roman church decided which church would be the one, and enforced that churches teachings with the roman army for hundreds of years.
 
H

Hearer

Guest
#20
#20
eternally-gratefull said:
2 Peter 1 is saying that prophesy is the wor4ds of God. And not open to anyone to interpret it any way they please. That is all. It is not saying that only the church can interpret. This is taking a verse out of context and trying to force it to back your belief!

Just because someone CAN misinterpret scripture does not mean scripture is not our ultimate guide. or we should just ignore it. God holds us accountable how we interpret it. Not how men interpret it. When you stand in front of God. Your not going to be judged because you listened to the wrong man or the wrong church, You will be judged on how YOU interpreted his word.
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of course scripture is our ulitmate guide. But to gain its fullness we need a map provided by many godly men and women through the ages.

Pope Benedict XV wrote: Properly speaking, God himself must be the subject of theology. Therefore, Scripture alone is theology in the fullest sense of the word because it truly has God as its subject; it does not just speak of him but is his own speech ... It is in the pages of the Bible that God comes lovingly to speak to His children. It is in the study of the Bible that His children seek to understand His message of love and concern. The Vatican II document Dei Verbum defines the study of Sacred Scripture as the means by which one can seek an intimate knowledge of God and that the study of the sacred page' should be the very soul of sacred theology ("God-knowledge") Dei Verbum 24. To seek intimate knowledge of God through the study of Sacred Scripture can be compared to a journey, and like any journey it is important to have a roadmap to guide the traveler along the right path
 
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