Some of the reasons I pulled away from Dispensationalism.

[Chester]

Yet i read over and over for years now how things are being gathered together for a third, According to Scofield the blood sacrifices offered there are to be a manorial . What an insult to the Cross of Christ .

First I assume you meant that Scofield says the blood sacrifices to be offered at the third temple will be memorial (not manorial).

You are of course entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that it would be a blessed, refreshing experience to be a part of such sacrifices. To me it would be a reminder and memorial of Christ's cross: in much the same (but probably even deeper and clearer) that communion is today.

 

[Chester]

A bit more on my personal thoughts of Scofield . His notes are in the Scofield Bible Putting ones note in a Bible that is for sale ( not your own use) is a troublesome thing to do.

On this I agree with you. I do not use the Scofield Bible myself.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

First I assume you meant that Scofield says the blood sacrifices to be offered at the third temple will be memorial (not manorial).

You are of course entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that it would be a blessed, refreshing experience to be a part of such sacrifices. To me it would be a reminder and memorial of Christ's cross: in much the same (but probably even deeper and clearer) that communion is today.

The sole purpose of animal sacrifice was to cover the sins of Israel. It wasn't just a memorial or a reminder, it actually had a function. According to many historic record, ever since God instituted those ceremonies in Leviticus, the blood they sprinkled and spilled in the temple would always miraculously disappear, as if God soaked it all up in a supernatural way; but ever since the crucifixion of Jesus, that ceased to happen, all the blood stayed there and never disappeared again. The real third temple is the temple of our body, we present ourselves as living sacrifice. Any further blood sacrifice is a sacrifice to the devil.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The real third temple is the temple of our body

How do you explain:

--that whenever Paul spoke of US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] as "temple" (whether corporately or as individuals), he never used the "definite article" ('the'); and

--that in the eschatological "THE temple of God" references (2 occurrences that I can I can think of), the latter one clearly distinguishes (in the sentence) "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN" - Revelation 11:1 (the persons are set as clearly DISTINCT FROM the structure itself); and

--2Th2:4 "SITTETH" seems grammatically to correspond with (the one ["AOD [singular / singular]"] Jesus was referring to "spoken of by the prophet Daniel," which is the one in Daniel 12:11, (the one where 12:13 tells us that Daniel will "STAND IN THY LOT at the END OF THE DAYS [the END of the 'days' specifically spoken of IN THAT CONTEXT, vv.6-7,1, i.e. END of far future TRIB yrs (namely the end of the SECOND HALF of those 7 years)]"...
...where v.11 says, "abomination of desolation [singular/singular] SET UP [H5414]" (see also the definitions of these underlined words, noting the part where 2Th2:4's G2523's "transitive" definition "I set, appoint" matches Dan12:11's "SET [UP] [H5414]" (expressed kind of in the same way [using transitive definition] that Matthew 23:2 uses the word G2523 [same word], "[Amplified Bible] saying: “The scribes and Pharisees have seated themselves [/have sat down - G2523] in Moses’ chair [of authority as teachers of the Law];" [just showing the Amplified version as an example]... meaning, "set, APPOINT"); Compare these with the G2476 "STANDING" in the holy place, of Matt24:15 "set up, establish, appoint" (strikingly SIMILAR, eh??)

 

[Beckie]

First I assume you meant that Scofield says the blood sacrifices to be offered at the third temple will be memorial (not manorial).

You are of course entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that it would be a blessed, refreshing experience to be a part of such sacrifices. To me it would be a reminder and memorial of Christ's cross: in much the same (but probably even deeper and clearer) that communion is today.

Thanks for the correction old eyes here
Your well meaning post shows exactly the damage dispensationalism has done to the Church, The Body of Christ. After God sent His Son to the Cross you believe having men dress in priestly garb as He is our High Priest offering a blood sacrifice of a bull would some how be a blessing? Do you expect the vail of the Holy of Holies to be replaced? Do you not understand that it was God who had the temple trampled . How can we not see the the true value of the Cross of Christ. Please re-read the book of Hebrews with the idea that the old temple ways are gone.

 

[CS1]

one thing I remember when I was first saved, Reading the word of God and the words of our Lord spoke to me things that as I looked without commentary and church doctrinal influence, they thought of the text as I read it was taking me to a place that had me

1. seeking the Holy Spirit
2. understanding that Jesus was coming back again
3. and urgency to do a work for God in context to the building the kingdom souls saved.
4. to separate from the world
5. and know Jesus more

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

How do you explain:

--that whenever Paul spoke of US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] as "temple" (whether corporately or as individuals), he never used the "definite article" ('the'); and

--that in the eschatological "THE temple of God" references (2 occurrences that I can I can think of), the latter one clearly distinguishes (in the sentence) "the temple of God" and "THEM that worship THEREIN" - Revelation 11:1 (the persons are set as clearly DISTINCT FROM the structure itself); and

--2Th2:4 "SITTETH" seems grammatically to correspond with (the one ["AOD [singular / singular]"] Jesus was referring to "spoken of by the prophet Daniel," which is the one in Daniel 12:11, (the one where 12:13 tells us that Daniel will "STAND IN THY LOT at the END OF THE DAYS [the END of the 'days' specifically spoken of IN THAT CONTEXT, vv.6-7,1, i.e. END of far future TRIB yrs (namely the end of the SECOND HALF of those 7 years)]"...
...where v.11 says, "abomination of desolation [singular/singular] SET UP [H5414]" (see also the definitions of these underlined words, noting the part where 2Th2:4's G2523's "transitive" definition "I set, appoint" matches Dan12:11's "SET [UP] [H5414]" (expressed kind of in the same way [using transitive definition] that Matthew 23:2 uses the word G2523 [same word], "[Amplified Bible] saying: “The scribes and Pharisees have seated themselves [/have sat down - G2523] in Moses’ chair [of authority as teachers of the Law];" [just showing the Amplified version as an example]... meaning, "set, APPOINT"); Compare these with the G2476 "STANDING" in the holy place, of Matt24:15 "set up, establish, appoint" (strikingly SIMILAR, eh??)

THE body of Christ is THE third temple. When he predicted that he’ll raise it in three days, that’s his own body; but after his ascension, the definition is expanded to collection of ALL believers on earth as THE Church. When he encountered Saul of Tarsus, he didn’t accuse him of persecuting his church, his people or his followers, he asked: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?!”

In Paul’s letters, he was addressing individuals or one single particular church, not THE universal church. He was teaching them this concept. And after all this is just parsing English. Does the same nuance exist in the original Greek?

 

[Hitch]

There are no "theories" of an earthly Kingdom of God. This truth is embedded in Scripture and is clearly seen in Daniel 7:13,14. Indeed throughout the book of Daniel, and many other prophetic books (including the Torah).

DANIEL 7: CHRIST'S ETERNAL KINGDOM ON EARTH
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days [God the Father], and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him [Christ] dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Now this ties in with the dreams and visions in other parts of Daniel.

NEBUCHADNEZZAR'S DREAM
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the Stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a Kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever...

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

So to claim that Christ will NOT set up an earthly Kingdom in the future is not only foolish but unbiblical.

So to claim that Christ will NOT set up an earthly Kingdom in the future is not only foolish but unbiblical.

The Kingdom described above is a contemporary reality, Jesus was completely successful in His work and his Kingdom has grown every day since the resurrection.

This is the historical prophesied Kingdom , of which the prophets and apostles taught.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is the historical prophesied Kingdom , of which the prophets and apostles taught.

No the prophets and apostles spoke of a literal, visible, tangible, physical and spiritual Kingdom on earth. What is being established at present is the Church (which will be a part of the future Kingdom of God).

 

[Hitch]

No the prophets and apostles spoke of a literal, visible, tangible, physical and spiritual Kingdom on earth. What is being established at present is the Church (which will be a part of the future Kingdom of God).

Joy peace and righteousness in the Holy Spirit, specifically not pomp and ceremony.


10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is by no means a geo-political entity, it is an everlasting spiritual entity , the Kingdom of God.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And after all this is just parsing English. Does the same nuance exist in the original Greek?

Not sure if you are referring to what I wrote here (below), or the other parts of my post...

TDW:
--that whenever Paul spoke of US [/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] as "temple" (whether corporately or as individuals), he never used the "definite article" ('the')

... so just to be clear on this point... I am talking about in the Greek (no definite article, here, in the Greek, wherever Paul speaks of the Church which is His body [or us as individual members of it] as "temple")





G'night all. = )

 

[Chester]

Thanks for the correction old eyes here
Your well meaning post shows exactly the damage dispensationalism has done to the Church, The Body of Christ. After God sent His Son to the Cross you believe having men dress in priestly garb as He is our High Priest offering a blood sacrifice of a bull would some how be a blessing? Do you expect the vail of the Holy of Holies to be replaced? Do you not understand that it was God who had the temple trampled . How can we not see the the true value of the Cross of Christ. Please re-read the book of Hebrews with the idea that the old temple ways are gone.

LOL! First I like the spirit of your answering - Some would already be YELLING at me!

Second - What if we both approached the reading of Scripture with an open mind instead of beginning with the presupposition that the "old temple ways are gone."

Third - Your string of rhetorical questions really does nothing except highlight your presuppositions. And then you throw in the "trump card" that my view somehow diminishes the value of "the cross of Christ"! To me, the sacrifices during a millenium reign would elevate the cross and the blood sacrifice!

 

[Hitch]

LOL! First I like the spirit of your answering - Some would already be YELLING at me!

Second - What if we both approached the reading of Scripture with an open mind instead of beginning with the presupposition that the "old temple ways are gone."

Third - Your string of rhetorical questions really does nothing except highlight your presuppositions. And then you throw in the "trump card" that my view somehow diminishes the value of "the cross of Christ"! To me, the sacrifices during a millenium reign would elevate the cross and the blood sacrifice!

You have mistaken , better said , imposed' presuppositions' when many decades of experience are what is actually in view.

Christ came to do the work of the cross , His prophesied kingdom was designed as a spiritual entity before the foundation of the world. In contrast Scofield&Co. teach that He came to inaugurate a geo-political kingdom and only went to the cross when that 'offer' failed and was withdrawn. It is a cesspool .