Some things about the law that need explaining.

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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It is because they entered covenant with Him (I think :) ).

Christ did not make a change, when Jacob blessed Ephraim he said to him he will be the father of many nations (the fulness of the nations). Ephraim was born of Israel and he was the father of melo ha goyim. So through Ephraim we become part of the fulness of the nations in Israel.

In John 21 the disciples caught 153 big fishes. The only phrase in the Bible adding up to 153 is melo ha goyim. Jesus said to them you will be fishers of men.

It was always God's plan to give everybody a chance to come to him. Even in the OT the other nations could become part of Israel and we can see that when Israel left Egypt.
Christ did make a change. Before Christ, all nations did not know God. After Christ, the knowledge of God was not tied to a nation. Paul made a difference, Paul was made an apostle to the gentiles and being a gentile was not tied to any God of any nation. Gentiles were adopted into Israel when they accepted Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Why not accept the law as a blessing from the Lord?

We accept the rules for driving on the road with our cars in the secular world, and fuss at the Lord who created our world and us for giving us law to guide our very living. On top of that, we are given forgiveness for breaking this law. If we do too much breaking of the law given us for driving our cars, the result is death. The Lord's rules can be forgiven.

The 119th Psalm is scripture truth, if you think Paul is fussing at the lord for giving us these blessings, then forget trying to understand Paul and go to David in the Psalm. Paul agrees with both David and Christ.

Christ welcomes gentiles and Jews with the very same open arms and love. He came first to the Jews as they are supposed to lead us, but Christ rejoices over each lost sheep that is found without labeling them Jews or gentile.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Why not accept the law as a blessing from the Lord?

We accept the rules for driving on the road with our cars in the secular world, and fuss at the Lord who created our world and us for giving us law to guide our very living. On top of that, we are given forgiveness for breaking this law. If we do too much breaking of the law given us for driving our cars, the result is death. The Lord's rules can be forgiven.

The 119th Psalm is scripture truth, if you think Paul is fussing at the lord for giving us these blessings, then forget trying to understand Paul and go to David in the Psalm. Paul agrees with both David and Christ.

Christ welcomes gentiles and Jews with the very same open arms and love. He came first to the Jews as they are supposed to lead us, but Christ rejoices over each lost sheep that is found without labeling them Jews or gentile.
Law + our flesh = death (Romans 7)
 
Jan 25, 2015
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You err twice.
  1. First I did not say that Law is inadequate. I said that the Law was inadequate for cleansing a corrupted body for God to dwell IN it
  2. Second, the Law used by Christ is not used to set me free. The Law of His LIFE did (Rom.8:2)
Thank you :)
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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Law + our flesh = death (Romans 7)
(Matthew 5:18-19) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [notice clearly Jesus doesn't say before this he says after] one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [If you can't take Jesus's word for it there's only one other choice man's false doctrine.]
 
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Christ did make a change. Before Christ, all nations did not know God. After Christ, the knowledge of God was not tied to a nation. Paul made a difference, Paul was made an apostle to the gentiles and being a gentile was not tied to any God of any nation. Gentiles were adopted into Israel when they accepted Christ.
At first reading, with prompts from the past, it may seem that Gentiles were adopted into Israel when they accepted Christ. But it is far from the truth. Consider this;

  1. Ephesians 2:15 says that FROM TWO PEOPLES, a THIRD - the "New Man" - is made. This New Man is "ONE". To avoid the division that would occur because some of these people had a history of the Law of Moses, Christ took the Law onto the cross with Him FOR THE NEW MAN ONLY.
  2. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says that this New Man is a New CREATURE with no past, and with a totally NEW beginning. Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11 confirm this by declaring that within this New Man, there is no ethnicity, social standing or nationality
  3. Thus, from TWO peoples (the Nations and the Nation of Israel) a THIRD one exists since Christ's death.

Now, the issue of adoption is NOT to put anybody into Israel. "Adoption" is a legal term that makes the adopted eligible to be HEIR of the Adoptee's goods. The Promise of an INHERITANCE was made to Israel VIA Abraham. That is, Abraham is the HEIR and the Promises extended to his SEED. So, to make the Church HEIRS of Abraham's Promises they must be ADOPTED. This adoption is done by being IN Christ, Chief Seed of Abraham (Gal.3:29). It is NOT done via Israel.

But the student of scripture will immediately refer to Ephesians 2:11-20 where, at first reading, it would seem that the Gentile believers are made Israelites. But on precise examination, this is not so. Ephesians 2:12 reads;

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

Ephesians 2:12 DOES NOT READ;

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

What then is a "Commonwealth". A "Common-wealth" is an association of nations that fall under one set of economic advantages. The nations are still individual nations but they share in a "Common WEALTH". Great Britain has a Commonwealth of nations. One of them is New Zealand. A New Zealander does not change his nationality, but enjoys privileges that a British citizen enjoys. An Argentinian is also a nationality, but does not enjoy the privileges of a New Zealander. He is an "alien" to Great Britain. So also the Church. It is a separate entity, but now having Christ as their Head, and being found IN Christ, they become eligible for the same privileges. In this case it is the Covenant of Promise.

Thus, the Church, a New Creature, a New Man, totally separate from the Nations and the Nation of Israel is connected to Abraham via Christ to make it eligible for the Covenant of Promise, made 430 years before the Covenant of Law. Therefore, the Church IS NOT Israel, IS NOT made part of Israel, and IS NOT under the Covenant of Law. But it IS:
Seed of Abraham, as the stars of heaven
  1. Eligible for the Promises to Abraham (Gal.3:29)
  2. Eligible for both Canaan AND the world (Matt.19:28; Rom.4:13)
The fate of Israel is what the prophets say. Even in their restoration, Israel stay an independent entity. Even in New Jerusalem on the New Earth, they are separate from the Church. They are "Gates" while the Church is the "Walls" of the City.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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(Matthew 5:18-19) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, [notice clearly Jesus doesn't say before this he says after] one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [If you can't take Jesus's word for it there's only one other choice man's false doctrine.]
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 22:21: And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

I am taking Jesus word for it
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Acts 22:21: And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

I am taking Jesus word for it
Oh I guess God's commandments and plan for salvation was only for Israel doctrine sorry aint buying what your selling haven't you heard there is no jew or gentile look up the mystery of Christ it's pretty awesome.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Oh I guess God's commandments and plan for salvation was only for Israel doctrine sorry aint buying what your selling haven't you heard there is no jew or gentile look up the mystery of Christ it's pretty awesome.
Ephesians 2:11-12 has been used by Corban and described the state of gentiles in time past, which includes the time period of the 4 gospels.

If you don't want to buy that, that is your choice.
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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Ephesians 2:11-12 has been used by Corban and described the state of gentiles in time past, which includes the time period of the 4 gospels.

If you don't want to buy that, that is your choice.
[Yes we are no longer under ordinances that life in Christ has done away with but we are one body with same commandments and that was God's plan from the beginning let me appeal to your reason and discernment.] (1 Corinthians 12:13,15,25,26) 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be jew or gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it. ( Galatians 3:29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Matthew 19:16-17) 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [ Then Jesus quotes ten commandments if you keep reading why would he do that hum I know he must have meant what he said so whoever teaches contrary is false teachings period. So whoever says commandments are a curse is a liar I go by what Christ said who is the living word.]
 
Jan 12, 2019
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[Yes we are no longer under ordinances that life in Christ has done away with but we are one body with same commandments and that was God's plan from the beginning let me appeal to your reason and discernment.] (1 Corinthians 12:13,15,25,26) 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be jew or gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it. ( Galatians 3:29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Matthew 19:16-17) 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. [ Then Jesus quotes ten commandments if you keep reading why would he do that hum I know he must have meant what he said so whoever teaches contrary is false teachings period. So whoever says commandments are a curse is a liar I go by what Christ said who is the living word.]
The 4 Gospels are as OT, as the rest of the OT, so if you want to use them as doctrine, why stop there?

Why not go all the way back to Deut and Leviticus and get your doctrine from there too?
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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The 4 Gospels are as OT, as the rest of the OT, so if you want to use them as doctrine, why stop there?

Why not go all the way back to Deut and Leviticus and get your doctrine from there too?
Because I know what my father expects of me.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
At first reading, with prompts from the past, it may seem that Gentiles were adopted into Israel when they accepted Christ. But it is far from the truth. Consider this;

  1. Ephesians 2:15 says that FROM TWO PEOPLES, a THIRD - the "New Man" - is made. This New Man is "ONE". To avoid the division that would occur because some of these people had a history of the Law of Moses, Christ took the Law onto the cross with Him FOR THE NEW MAN ONLY.
  2. 2nd Corinthians 5:17 says that this New Man is a New CREATURE with no past, and with a totally NEW beginning. Galatians 3:28 and Colossians 3:11 confirm this by declaring that within this New Man, there is no ethnicity, social standing or nationality
  3. Thus, from TWO peoples (the Nations and the Nation of Israel) a THIRD one exists since Christ's death.

Now, the issue of adoption is NOT to put anybody into Israel. "Adoption" is a legal term that makes the adopted eligible to be HEIR of the Adoptee's goods. The Promise of an INHERITANCE was made to Israel VIA Abraham. That is, Abraham is the HEIR and the Promises extended to his SEED. So, to make the Church HEIRS of Abraham's Promises they must be ADOPTED. This adoption is done by being IN Christ, Chief Seed of Abraham (Gal.3:29). It is NOT done via Israel.

But the student of scripture will immediately refer to Ephesians 2:11-20 where, at first reading, it would seem that the Gentile believers are made Israelites. But on precise examination, this is not so. Ephesians 2:12 reads;

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

Ephesians 2:12 DOES NOT READ;

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

What then is a "Commonwealth". A "Common-wealth" is an association of nations that fall under one set of economic advantages. The nations are still individual nations but they share in a "Common WEALTH". Great Britain has a Commonwealth of nations. One of them is New Zealand. A New Zealander does not change his nationality, but enjoys privileges that a British citizen enjoys. An Argentinian is also a nationality, but does not enjoy the privileges of a New Zealander. He is an "alien" to Great Britain. So also the Church. It is a separate entity, but now having Christ as their Head, and being found IN Christ, they become eligible for the same privileges. In this case it is the Covenant of Promise.

Thus, the Church, a New Creature, a New Man, totally separate from the Nations and the Nation of Israel is connected to Abraham via Christ to make it eligible for the Covenant of Promise, made 430 years before the Covenant of Law. Therefore, the Church IS NOT Israel, IS NOT made part of Israel, and IS NOT under the Covenant of Law. But it IS:
Seed of Abraham, as the stars of heaven
  1. Eligible for the Promises to Abraham (Gal.3:29)
  2. Eligible for both Canaan AND the world (Matt.19:28; Rom.4:13)
The fate of Israel is what the prophets say. Even in their restoration, Israel stay an independent entity. Even in New Jerusalem on the New Earth, they are separate from the Church. They are "Gates" while the Church is the "Walls" of the City.
Honestly, when you get all tangled up with your Israel, gentiles, new man, and your boundaries for sectioning off what is to be read as scripture and what isn't, you get lost.

First, as we read scripture we need to know who inspired it, what that inspiration consists of. What are the governing principles of the Lord? Then we look to see how a specific scripture expresses those principles, and we cannot assign something to the Lord that is out of His character.

From the first pages of scripture, we find the Lord created all man, and wants all men to be forgiven their sins so they can live forever with Him. n God set up the sacrificial system for this purpose, to keep the saints until Christ came.

God did not want the nations of the old testament to die of their sins, God hoped they would see His glory and righteousness through seeing it in the Hebrews he tried to train to express that. God did not want your "Israel only", God is the same God for the gentiles who rejected Him, as God is the God for the current Jews who think the Messiah is yet to come, just as He is the God of the saints.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Because I know what my father expects of me.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

This is what your father expects of you.
 

echoChrist

Active member
Dec 22, 2020
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Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

This is what your father expects of you.
Sorry he expects alot more of me than one verse.