Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God

garee · Mar 17, 2019

We walk by faith the eternal unseen, and not by sight the temporal seen .

Natural un-converted man walks after the course of this world... what the eyes see the temporal. (Lust of the eye, lust of worshipping the flesh that seen..

1 John 2:16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The you will see "greater things" is greater in number not principle. The greater than these refers to walking by faith the unseen eternal.

Angel have no form and heaven, the new heavens and earth will not appear until the last day .The Son of man when he left in 2 Corinthian 5:16 informs us we no longer know him after the flesh the one time demonstration is over.( God is not a man as us)

Jesus denied that we should worship angels that bring into one fleshly mind signs as lying wonder intruding into things they did not see by faith (God's word) , Three time in Mathew 4 when shown as sign a lying wonder( source of faith) Christ said it is written .
Establishing the one source of faith by which we can believe Him seeing Him that has no form.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

obedienttogod · Mar 17, 2019

Locutus said:

Nowhere, does this ^ means or must mean what you are implying.

What does "this generation" mean in Matthew 24:34 ...
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/what...
“This generation” The meaning of the Greek word “generation” is genea. This word means more than just “generation.” It has the idea of “birth, descent, children and race”. It was even used to refer to the end times.[1]

delirious · Mar 17, 2019

obedienttogod said:

The Greek word "Genea" that is translated "generation" in our English Bibles is used 25 times by Jesus. Let's ignore the 3 times it is used in Matthew, Mark & Luke's versions of the Olivet Discourse for a moment.

The other 22 times Jesus uses "Genea" it always refers to His generation. Don't take my word for it. Go look the passages up. Therefore you are making a claim that it doesn't mean His generation and going against the way Jesus uses it EVERY TIME.

When you combine Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 32 with Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8:38-9: 1 and Luke 9: 26-27 and also include Matt 10: 23, you now have 7 PASSAGES, not just 1, that all say the same thing. Jesus returned in the first century in His generation.

You simply will not accept what Scripture says. Your denial of it will not change what Scripture says. You will only remain self-deceived.

obedienttogod · Mar 18, 2019

delirious said:

γενιά = generation in Greek

Translations of generation

noun
Frequency

παραγωγή
production, manufacture, output, generation, derivation, procreation

γενεά
generation, race

γέννηση
birth, nativity, generation, procreation, nascency, progeniture

nowhere is the word you used "Genea" listed as related to the word generation.

You really are lost!!

Locutus · Mar 18, 2019

"this generation (Greek - genea)"

Strongs Concordance:

G1074 genea ghen-eh-ah'

from (a presumed derivative of) G1085;

a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons).

Jesus is using it in exactly the same way we would i.e. the 70's generation, the X generation etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strongs Concordance:

G1085 genos ghen'-os

from G1096;

"kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Peter 2:9 (Young's) and ye are a choice race ( genos ) a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

(1 Pet 2:9 KJV) But ye are a chosen generation ( genos ), a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Pet 2:9 (NASB) But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

iamsoandso · Mar 18, 2019

Locutus said:

"this generation (Greek - genea)"

Strongs Concordance:

G1074 genea ghen-eh-ah'

from (a presumed derivative of) G1085;

a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons).

Jesus is using it in exactly the same way we would i.e. the 70's generation, the X generation etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strongs Concordance:

G1085 genos ghen'-os

from G1096;

"kin" (abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Peter 2:9 (Young's) and ye are a choice race ( genos ) a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

(1 Pet 2:9 KJV) But ye are a chosen generation ( genos ), a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Pet 2:9 (NASB) But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Or dor or toledot we would just need to think like a jew to see its meaning and the generations of the heavens and the earth,,,,Genesis 2:4,,,,

Locutus · Mar 18, 2019

iamsoandso said:

There is that - evening Bro.

That said we are dealing with the Greek.

A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT and Other Early Christian Literature - F. WILBUR GINGRICH, FREDRICK W. DANKER:

Geneav

geneav,a`",hJ ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test.12 Patr. , Sib.Or. ) family,descent.

1.lit .,those descended fr. acommon ancestor, a clan ( Pind. ,Pyth. 10, 42 the Hyperboreans are a iJera;geneav ; Diod.S. 18,56, 7; Jos. ,Ant. 17, 220), then race,kind gener. This may be the mng. in Lk 16:8eij"th;n g. th;n eJautw`n thechildren of this age are more prudent in relation to their own clan (i.e. ,people of their own kind) than are the children of light, but see GR Beasley-Murray, A Commentary on Mk 13 ,’57, 99-102. The meaning nation is possible, e.g. ,in Mt 23:36 ;but s. also2.

2. basically, the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at a given time generation,contemporaries ( Hom. , al. ; BGU 1211,12 [II BC ] e{w"genew`n triw`n );Jesus looks upon the whole contemp. generation of Jews as a uniform mass confronting him hJg. au{th ( cf. Gen 7:1 ;Ps 11:8 )Mt 11:16 ; 12:41f ; 23:36 ; 24:34 ;Mk 13:30 ;

Lk 7:31 ; 11:29,32 , 50f ; 17:25 ; 21:32 (E Graesser, ZNW Beih.22, [SUP]2[/SUP]’60). S. also1 above. This generation is characterized as g.a [pisto" kai; diestrammevnh Mtl7:17; Mk 9:19 D;Lk 9:41 ; a[pisto" Mk 9:19 ; ponhrav Mt 12:45 ; 16:4 D;Lk 11:29 ; ponhra;k. moicaliv" Mt 12:39 ; 16:4 ; moicali;"kai; aJmartwlov" Mk 8:38 (JGuillet, Rechde Sc rel 35,’48, 275-81). Their contemporaries appeared to the Christians as g.skolia; kai; diestrammevnh (thel atter term as Mt 17:17 ;Lk 9:41 ,the former also Ac 2:40 ; cf. Ps 77:8 )Phil 2:15 (Dt 32:5 ).— Cf. Wsd 3:19 .A more favorable kind of g. is mentioned in Ps 23:6 ; 111:2 ; 1 QS3, 14.—The desert generation Hb 3:10 (Ps 94:10 ). ijdiva/g. u Jphrethvsa"after he had served his own generation Ac 13:36 ; g.hJmw`n1Cl 5:1; aiJpro; hJmw`n g. 19:1; prwvthg.the first generation (of Christians) Hs 9,15, 4 ( Paus. 7,4, 9 tetavrth/genea`/ = in the fourth generation).

3. age, the time of a generation (since Hdt. 2,142; Dionys.Hal. 3,15; Gen 50:23 ;Ex 13:18 ; 20:5 ;EpJer 2 ; Philo ,Mos. 1, 7; Jos. ,Ant. 5, 336; Sib.Or. 3,108). Here the original sense gradually disappears, and the mng. ‘a period of time’ remains.

iamsoandso · Mar 18, 2019

Locutus said:

There is that - evening Bro.

That said we are dealing with the Greek.

A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT and Other Early Christian Literature - F. WILBUR GINGRICH, FREDRICK W. DANKER:

Geneav

geneav,a`",hJ ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test.12 Patr. , Sib.Or. ) family,descent.

1.lit .,those descended fr. acommon ancestor, a clan ( Pind. ,Pyth. 10, 42 the Hyperboreans are a iJera;geneav ; Diod.S. 18,56, 7; Jos. ,Ant. 17, 220), then race,kindgener. This may be the mng. in Lk 16:8eij"th;n g. th;n eJautw`n thechildren of this age are more prudent in relation to their own clan (i.e. ,people of their own kind) than are the children of light, but see GR Beasley-Murray, A Commentary on Mk 13 ,’57, 99-102. The meaning nation is possible, e.g. ,in Mt 23:36 ;but s. also2.

2. basically, the sum total of those born at the same time, expanded to include all those living at a given time generation,contemporaries ( Hom. , al. ; BGU 1211,12 [II BC ] e{w"genew`n triw`n );Jesus looks upon the whole contemp. generation of Jews as a uniform mass confronting him hJg. au{th ( cf. Gen 7:1 ;Ps 11:8 )Mt 11:16 le; 12:41f ; 23:36 ; 24:34 ;Mk 13:30 ;

rr
Lk 7:31 ; 11:29,32 , 50f ; 17:25 ; 21:32 (E Graesser, ZNW Beih.22, [SUP]2[/SUP]’60). S. also1 above. This generation is characterized as g.a [pisto" kai; diestrammevnh Mtl7:17; Mk 9:19 D;Lk 9:41 ; a[pisto" Mk 9:19 ; ponhrav Mt 12:45 ; 16:4 D;Lk 11:29 ; ponhra;k. moicaliv" Mt 12:39 ; 16:4 ; moicali;"kai; aJmartwlov" Mk 8:38 (JGuillet, Rechde Sc rel 35,’48, 275-81). Their contemporaries appeared to the Christians as g.skolia; kai; diestrammevnh (thel atter term as Mt 17:17 ;Lk 9:41 ,the former also Ac 2:40 ; cf. Ps 77:8 )Phil 2:15 (Dt 32:5 ).— Cf. Wsd 3:19 .A more favorable kind of g. is mentioned in Ps 23:6 ; 111:2 ; 1 QS3, 14.—The desert generation Hb 3:10 (Ps 94:10 ). ijdiva/g. u Jphrethvsa"after he had served his own generation Ac 13:36 ; g.hJmw`n1Cl 5:1; aiJpro; hJmw`n g. 19:1; prwvthg.the first generation (of Christians) Hs 9,15, 4 ( Paus. 7,4, 9 tetavrth/genea`/ = in the fourth generation).

3. age, the time of a generation (since Hdt. 2,142; Dionys.Hal. 3,15; Gen 50:23 ;Ex 13:18 ; 20:5 ;EpJer 2 ; Philo ,Mos. 1, 7; Jos. ,Ant. 5, 336; Sib.Or. 3,108). Here the original sense gradually disappears, and the mng. ‘a period of time’ remains.

LOL.,,,i mean The 12 were very well known for knowledge of Greek instead of the Scriptures stating they were unlearned men while speaking of Hebew as Jews right?

Locutus · Mar 18, 2019

iamsoandso said:

I dunno how well they knew the Greek and or Hebrew - most of the OT quotes in the newt are from the LXX.

As for dor:

(Gen 7:1 KJV) And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation (H1755 dowr dore)

Locutus · Mar 18, 2019

(Deu 23:2 KJV) A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

(Deu 7:9 KJV) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Doh!

Locutus · Mar 18, 2019

Night Bro - late here

obedienttogod · Mar 18, 2019

Locutus said:

Interesting, Strong's Concordance is using a variation of γενιά, as the word genos ghen'-os. They aren't technically using generation, but rather a specific meaning of generation γενιά.

Just proves that Strong's Concordance, much like the KJV Bible, needs an update because many of the words within both Books are wrong words, wrong translation, not even close to what was actually written and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

garee · Mar 18, 2019

delirious said:

Not His generation the generation of Christ flesh , The eternal generation.

This generation is the generation of born again believers, the generation of Christ. Not the generation of Adam as in all die, none will be raised .

MadHermit · Mar 19, 2019

This post will seek to clarify the meaning of both troublesome texts (Mark 9:1 and Matthew 10:23 without invoking scholarly insights from redaction criticism, which would only confuse many readers.

(1) "And He said to them, Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has [already] come with power (Mark 9:1--NIV and NRSV)."

In other words, they will notice what has already been happening in churches. Mark was for a time one of Paul's missionary companions and Paul clarifies the proper relationship between kingdom and power in the life of believers:

"I will come to you soon. if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the [religious] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."
"My speech and my proclamation were not with plausible words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God's power (2:4-5)."

So Jesus' prediction in Mark 9:1 is fulfilled by the developing operation of the power and gifts of the Spirit in the life of the fledgling church. This process began with the Spirit's outpouring on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2). A foretaste of kingdom power is witnessed in Jesus' Transfiguration. As the scholarly consensus recognizes, Mark indicates this by breaking his pattern of connecting stories with the vague term "immediately (40 uses) in favor of the unprecedented phrase "after 6 days." It took just 6 days for a preliminary fulfillment of 9:1.

Didymous's irrelevant claim about Jesus' use of the formula "Truly I tell you" to connect with the theme of preceding sayings is misguided for 3 reasons:
(a) It ignores the fact that it is Mark, not Jesus, who organizes sayings and stories into a Gospel without regard to original sequence; and our earliest source for Mark's identity as the Gospel's author, Papias, reports that Mark is criticized for his deviations from the correct sequence.
(b) It begs the question by ignoring the need to determine the meaning of Jesus' phrase "The kingdom of God has come with power" by examining Paul's teaching about the connection between kingdom of power.
(c) It ignores the scholarly consensus that the related phrase "I say to you that listen" in Luke 6:28 connects originally detached sayings on nonretaliation and love of enemies with a woes collection. It also ignores the scholarly consensus that the phrases "Amd je said to him" and "Truly, truly, I tell you" in John 1:51 connect an originally detached saying to Jesus' disciples with a dialogue with Nathanael, who in any case never sees the fulfillment of this saying in his only other Gospel appearance (21;1-2).

(2) "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes (Matthew 10:23)."
The claim that this saying predicts the 2nd Coming before the completion of the disciples' visits to all Israel's towns can be refuted on x grounds:

Jesus commissions the disciples to preach the Gospel to all nations (Matthew 28:16-20). Jesus would hardly imagine that His disciples would have time to preach to "all nations," but not to all Israel's villages! It makes far more sense to interpret 10:23 as a reference to Jesus' imminent ministry tour of Israel's towns: "He sent messengers ahead of Him to make ready for Him (Luke 9:52)."
Matthew 10:23 thus parallels Luke 10:1: "After this, the Lord appointed 70 others and sent them on ahead of Him in pairs into every town and place where He Himself was about to come." This interpretation explains the urgency of fleeing towns who oppose the advance party. Jesus is likely to skip towns that won't cooperate and in any case His disciples need to cover as much ground as possible to prepare more receptive towns for Jesus' "coming" to minister.

delirious · Mar 19, 2019

MadHermit said:

This post will seek to clarify the meaning of both troublesome texts (Mark 9:1 and Matthew 10:23 without invoking scholarly insights from redaction criticism, which would only confuse many readers.

(1) "And He said to them, Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has [already] come with power (Mark 9:1--NIV and NRSV)."

In other words, they will notice what has already been happening in churches. Mark was for a time one of Paul's missionary companions and Paul clarifies the proper relationship between kingdom and power in the life of believers:

"I will come to you soon. if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the [religious] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God depends not on talk, but on power (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."
"My speech and my proclamation were not with plausible words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God's power (2:4-5)."

So Jesus' prediction in Mark 9:1 is fulfilled by the developing operation of the power and gifts of the Spirit in the life of the fledgling church. This process began with the Spirit's outpouring on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2). A foretaste of kingdom power is witnessed in Jesus' Transfiguration. As the scholarly consensus recognizes, Mark indicates this by breaking his pattern of connecting stories with the vague term "immediately (40 uses) in favor of the unprecedented phrase "after 6 days." It took just 6 days for a preliminary fulfillment of 9:1.

Didymous's irrelevant claim about Jesus' use of the formula "Truly I tell you" to connect with the theme of preceding sayings is misguided for 3 reasons:
(a) It ignores the fact that it is Mark, not Jesus, who organizes sayings and stories into a Gospel without regard to original sequence; and our earliest source for Mark's identity as the Gospel's author, Papias, reports that Mark is criticized for his deviations from the correct sequence.
(b) It begs the question by ignoring the need to determine the meaning of Jesus' phrase "The kingdom of God has come with power" by examining Paul's teaching about the connection between kingdom of power.
(c) It ignores the scholarly consensus that the related phrase "I say to you that listen" in Luke 6:28 connects originally detached sayings on nonretaliation and love of enemies with a woes collection. It also ignores the scholarly consensus that the phrases "Amd je said to him" and "Truly, truly, I tell you" in John 1:51 connect an originally detached saying to Jesus' disciples with a dialogue with Nathanael, who in any case never sees the fulfillment of this saying in his only other Gospel appearance (21;1-2).

(2) "When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes (Matthew 10:23)."
The claim that this saying predicts the 2nd Coming before the completion of the disciples' visits to all Israel's towns can be refuted on x grounds:

Jesus commissions the disciples to preach the Gospel to all nations (Matthew 28:16-20). Jesus would hardly imagine that His disciples would have time to preach to "all nations," but not to all Israel's villages! It makes far more sense to interpret 10:23 as a reference to Jesus' imminent ministry tour of Israel's towns: "He sent messengers ahead of Him to make ready for Him (Luke 9:52)."
Matthew 10:23 thus parallels Luke 10:1: "After this, the Lord appointed 70 others and sent them on ahead of Him in pairs into every town and place where He Himself was about to come." This interpretation explains the urgency of fleeing towns who oppose the advance party. Jesus is likely to skip towns that won't cooperate and in any case His disciples need to cover as much ground as possible to prepare more receptive towns for Jesus' "coming" to minister.

I have already refuted all your arguments in previous posts. I am not going to re-type them.

The problem you have is you do not believe in biblical inerrancy. Had I known that I would have never engaged with you in the first place. You have already created a perfect loophole in your own mind so that you can discard whatever the Scripture says that you don't like.

When you decide that Mark's gospel is more important than Matthew's or Luke's and that Mark doesn't get his order right and all the other garbage you have put forth then it begs the question; Why are you a Christian? You are inconsistent.

People like you will just discard whatever they don't like in the Bible as it suits their preferred doctrines and beliefs.

I believe in biblical inerrancy. I accept it for what it says. I'm a Christian.

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Some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God

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