Some words by Spurgeon;

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,909
184
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#41

Thought this was worth re posting in light of all the different kinds of repentance-s going on. Do we cry or do we change our minds and agree with God? I say we change our minds and agree with God. Basically let the Holy Spirit have reign over our thoughts each day so He can change our minds and "we" can be in agreement with Him. Amen!


o we cry or do we change our minds and agree with God? I say we change our minds and agree with God. Basically let the Holy Spirit have reign over our thoughts each day so He can change our minds and "we" can be in agreement with Him. Amen!
Amen...good stuff


I say in our anxieties because we have as new creature’s been given a new spirit and new heart by which we can seek after Him who has no form so that then we can understand the call to turn towards Him. We are given the honor as kingdom of believers/ priest to search it out concealed to those who have no understanding..

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

While it remains a mystery to those who cannot seek after Him who has no form and therefore have no understanding.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:10

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ as the perfect law of God which does quicken our souls giving us simply one his understanding they will not find... having no one to turn them.

It’s his complete or perfect law that does turn us making us wise to salvation..

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

We therefore cannot change our minds and comfort ourselves knowing he has paid the full sin debt if he does not first turn us giving us the understanding he has paid the debt in full . Unless he does the first work of turning us so that we can then change our minds, reminding us how childish it was to deny him in unbelief, then we did bear the reproach of our youth. .
Repentance is a work of God not of our selves.

I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely "after" that I was turned, I repented; and "after that" I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
762
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#42
Amen joaniemarie and UnderGrace as to the definition of repentance. Synchronizing the term repentance with the OT term for it, teshuvah breaks down to its roots as saying, "(re)turn to(ward) God", a repentance as turning to God for forgiveness and cleansing of our sin. In turning to Him, what do we then see, Jesus has provided forgiveness and cleansing of our sin of which the contrite writer of Psalm 51 had faith in God's ability (rather than his own) to do, with this petition in verse 2, "Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin," and exhibition of faith in His Grace in verse 10, "Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow" written at a time even before seeing that Jesus had proclaimed upon His cross, "It is done."

Today, we turn to God to receive this lovingkindness which has already been offered, and that cannot be undone.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
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#43
Wow thank you!!!... "Return to God"

I have added this to my notes....I hope that is okay :)

Amen joaniemarie and UnderGrace as to the definition of repentance. Synchronizing the term repentance with the OT term for it, teshuvah breaks down to its roots as saying, "(re)turn to(ward) God", a repentance as turning to God for forgiveness and cleansing of our sin. In turning to Him, what do we then see, Jesus has provided forgiveness and cleansing of our sin of which the contrite writer of Psalm 51 had faith in God's ability (rather than his own) to do, with this petition in verse 2, "Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin," and exhibition of faith in His Grace in verse 10, "Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow" written at a time even before seeing that Jesus had proclaimed upon His cross, "It is done."

Today, we turn to God to receive this lovingkindness which has already been offered, and that cannot be undone.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#44

Good Morning Nehemiah., Before graciously answering your question., let it be noted that I don't need to or have to answer you. You're rudeness and constant accusation about my being a peddler of false doctrine because I like a pastor you don't agree with is lacking in manners and respect.

But because I daily seek to practice not giving back evil for evil, I will answer your question with a sincere heart. If you continue to take my sincere attempts to be civil to you with your never ending personal attacks, I'll have to ignore you for peace sake. We do not have to agree but we do need to be respectful and civil.

I've already said this many times already and in all my posts. My main focus on coming to CC is to speak to other Christians and to offer encouragement to those who are not aware of God's love in Christ. To remind them as sons and heirs and joint heirs with Jesus they are always and forever forgiven IN Christ.

So in this discussion about confession., I'm in agreement with Spurgeon that a believer doesn't have to moan and groan and cry and whip themselves to show and prove and convince God OR themselves that they are sorry. That is not repentance.

Repentance is a change of mind., a process in which we Christians are in the school of the Holy Spirit to put off the old way of thinking and put on the new. This cannot be done by osmosis but it is done by our working with the Holy Spirit. By submitting to the truth in Christ regardless of what previous things we thought were truths or common sense answers previously lived by. We are now to learn to think like God thinks.

Jesus has given us at the time of our salvation a new heart and a new mind. It's our job to work "out" what Jesus has worked "in" us. We have it., we make a daily choice to grow that seed into fruit. If a Christian is allowing the devil to attack them with feelings of condemnation., guilt and shame they are not walking in the truth.

Many Christians think that those condemning attacks are from the Holy Spirit (who never condemns) But because that Christian doesn't know this major truth.,that Christian will be dealing with lies of the enemy instead of walking in the faith of their right standing in Christ. The truth that Romans 8:1-2 says we are not condemned any more in Christ.

Our calling now as believers is to recognize who we are now in Christ and that we are not who we were before we got saved. We are no longer condemned with the world. We are free and no longer under the law but under grace. Why., because the law of the Spirit of life has set us free. Yet., many believers are still bound by the dictates of their flesh (old way of thinking) in their old manner of life and thinking that God is not for them but against them and they are condemned when in truth., they are not. Romans 1:2 says

Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.
People say I'm a Calvinist, therefore I love Calvin. Well, no. Truthfully I became a Calvinist before I even heard of Calvin. And I find it kind of funny that people then tell me Calvin gave us T.U.L.I.P., when the reality is Calvin was dead before TULIP even became a thing. And now that I know who Calvin is, nope. Nope, nope, nope. I can't appreciate Calvin. I mean he may well be right. He well may be amazing. Everything other people I know who are reformed say about him is he is that amazing. One thing holds me back. He thinks above what I think. If I have a tenth grade reading level like I've been told I have, then he writes in 20th grade reading level.

This does not mean I've never tried reading Calvin. I have. (How else would I know I can't read him?) And, I've seen some Calvin memes I like, but that cannot mean I like Calvin enough to read him often. I don't.

So, with that as an explanation, I want to ask you how much do you like Spurgeon? Because if you like Spurgeon memes, that's not necessarily liking Spurgeon, given Angela proved the memes were taken out of context. Do you actually read Spurgeon? Have you ever read a book by Spurgeon?

Because I can say I like Calvin too, and on one would question me. (Why would they? I'm a Calvinist. Of course I like Calvin.) But the reality is I don't really know Calvin, except in the historical sense of who he was. Which really isn't Calvin, so much as what he started. (Sort of like me going down in history as "that nutty teddy bear woman." Probably true I'm nutty, obviously, I like teddy bears, but that's not all of me either.)

Do you know Spurgeon enough to know if you really like him? Have you ever read unadulterated books straight from Spurgeon?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#45
...Having said that, I am more inclined to read a devotional from a preacher who promotes God loves all and does not condemn some to hell by not choosing them to be saved, I am completely and utterly opposed to that doctrine.

Okay my comment is that the Gospel is to the Jew first.....when John the Baptist was preaching the message of repentance to his people was he was telling them to change their mind about the plan of salvation.

They believed that by being the physical descendants of Abraham was enough to save them as children of God, so they needed a change of mind and as we know a limited number were able to change their minds and believe upon Jesus as Saviour.


Metanoia means to change our mind, in the context of scripture, it means to stop believing we can save ourselves and agree with God we are completely incapable of being good enough. We change our minds and believe upon Christ Jesus and Hs efficacious work on the cross on our behalf.

Is this this not the case of the Jews of Jesus time, they could not make this change in thought?

Convincing people they are sinners is not the difficulty, the problem I encounter is most people believe they are good enough.

Some have sorrow for their sins, but the cling to self righteous works thinking they have repented and stopped sinning, changing our minds about our own self-effort and turning towards Christ as Saviour and His work on the cross on our behalf is how we are saved.

Jesus does not save those who are trying to save themselves, we come empty, this is the hard truth most people cannot get to...they will not change their minds about their total inability to save themselves.

I can feel all manner of sorrow and contrition for my sin, but where is Jesus in that...I make it about me and not Him and His Work

This is why the gate is narrow.
I have not taken the time to find the scriptures but I can ....for some reason I have been all day on CC..not good.

I would be glad to hear your thoughts on what I have said.:)
You're the only person on this site who does not fear your open opposition to God by creating your own personal little god who does stuff only in the way you want him to be.

Got to admire your persistence. Hate to think anyone buys it though. Thankfully, I doubt anyone would. Why should they, when they too can create their own personal god the way they want him?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#46
You're the only person on this site who does not fear your open opposition to God by creating your own personal little god who does stuff only in the way you want him to be.

Got to admire your persistence. Hate to think anyone buys it though. Thankfully, I doubt anyone would. Why should they, when they too can create their own personal god the way they want him?
There are more than her on here doing it, in fact there are several more.

Don't like the God of Scripture? Just censure him, reject revelation of his person because in your finite mind you deem him unfit to be your God, and unfair, so, just make your own little god.

All comfy now?

It is amazing man is not afraid to do something so arrogant. Stephen Charnock had some rather weighty things to say about those who do these things.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,776
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#47
Repentance is a change of mind, a process in which we Christians are in the school of the Holy Spirit to put off the old way of thinking and put on the new.
This is exactly where you are mistaken. While repentance is a process FOR CHRISTIANS it is NOT a process for sinners. And we see this clearly in Scripture. Repentance for the remisssion of sins is what we are talking about (and what Spurgeon was talking about) and you have changed that to what it means for Christians. And that is not legitimate at all. It is you who quoted Spurgeon but failed to give your own comments on what he said. (Someone not familiar with your theology could assume that you were a Calvinist like Spurgeon).

SINNERS TURNING FROM THEIR EVIL WAYS
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented [relented] of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. (Jonah 3:10).

Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. (Luke 3:8)

And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. (Luke 3:10-14)

And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore
him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
(Luke 19:8,9).

And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. (Acts 19:18,19)

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God (1 Thess 1:9)


If Scripture does not suffice, then nothing ever will.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,943
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#48
Wow., I didn't see all the other posts until after answering Nehemiah's. Well Angela., what can I say to the false accusations against my Christian character here that you flagrantly posted? How do I respond to your suspicion and then your attempts to put even more suspicion and questioning before others about the genuineness of my Christian life., what I believe and last of all my heart motives ?

Nothing., not a thing. Your kind of accusation and judgment deserves no answer. I will graciously continue posting as I have always done. I'll be praying for you Angela.,and for any who have been lead down the ugly trail to believe any of the false accusations you have posted against me.

The facts are simple. Read your posts, and anyone will plainly see you are an apologist for hypergrace - both Joseph Prince and Paul Ellis at Escape to Reality. You are lost in your delusions that they have the truth, when they have a lie.

I have said this so many times. Post what YOU believe. Don’t keep parroting these liars. Although, by now, you are so thoroughly indoctrinated by their lies, you couldn’t see the truth if it hit you.

If you want to post about theology, in your own words, just do it. I would be happy to slog it out with Scriptures, context, Greek and Hebrew, etc.

But no, you pull these memes off a website that are chopped up, and make it seem like Charles Spurgeon supports hypergrace!! Seriously, he is probably rolling over in his grave (Of course, not just using a saying!).

I can tell you, Word Faith and its off shoot hypergrace do not use context. They pull parts of verses out of context to make the Bible says things the writers and God never meant it too. You don’t seem to be able to educate yourself as to the correct way to read the Bible. Because, there is a correct way.

I dare you to study hermeneutics. it would dispel all these half truths and doctrines in an instant. Because, you are posting lies. And no, I have never questioned that you are saved. I feel certain you are. But, you are on the wrong road, you are deluded. And that isn’t because you don’t love Jesus, it is because you are naive, instead of testing the spirits and using discernment.

I will pray for you, that God will give you greater discernment, so you will see through the lies of these hypergrace false teachers. Now, them, I have to say, I do doubt their sincerity, and certainly they have no Bible training, or they would never have come up with these dastardly and heinous doctrines.

PS. Rhema Bible school, Oral Roberts, etc, don’t count as Bible training, but rather indoctrination. And in case you think this comes out of some kind of anti-charismatism on my part, Gordon Fee is a Pentecostal and a great scholar. I have read numerous books by him, and although I may disagree on certain manifestations of the Spirit, he is not pushy, and supports his doctrines well. And he is much more concerned with other things besides the so-called gifts of the Spirit, in fact, countering the Word Faith movement is a big issue for him. Thank goodness for scholars on the charismatic side of things.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,000
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#49
The facts are simple. Read your posts, and anyone will plainly see you are an apologist for hypergrace - both Joseph Prince and Paul Ellis at Escape to Reality. You are lost in your delusions that they have the truth, when they have a lie.

I have said this so many times. Post what YOU believe. Don’t keep parroting these liars. Although, by now, you are so thoroughly indoctrinated by their lies, you couldn’t see the truth if it hit you.

If you want to post about theology, in your own words, just do it. I would be happy to slog it out with Scriptures, context, Greek and Hebrew, etc.

But no, you pull these memes off a website that are chopped up, and make it seem like Charles Spurgeon supports hypergrace!! Seriously, he is probably rolling over in his grave (Of course, not just using a saying!).

I can tell you, Word Faith and its off shoot hypergrace do not use context. They pull parts of verses out of context to make the Bible says things the writers and God never meant it too. You don’t seem to be able to educate yourself as to the correct way to read the Bible. Because, there is a correct way.

I dare you to study hermeneutics. it would dispel all these half truths and doctrines in an instant. Because, you are posting lies. And no, I have never questioned that you are saved. I feel certain you are. But, you are on the wrong road, you are deluded. And that isn’t because you don’t love Jesus, it is because you are naive, instead of testing the spirits and using discernment.

I will pray for you, that God will give you greater discernment, so you will see through the lies of these hypergrace false teachers. Now, them, I have to say, I do doubt their sincerity, and certainly they have no Bible training, or they would never have come up with these dastardly and heinous doctrines.

PS. Rhema Bible school, Oral Roberts, etc, don’t count as Bible training, but rather indoctrination. And in case you think this comes out of some kind of anti-charismatism on my part, Gordon Fee is a Pentecostal and a great scholar. I have read numerous books by him, and although I may disagree on certain manifestations of the Spirit, he is not pushy, and supports his doctrines well. And he is much more concerned with other things besides the so-called gifts of the Spirit, in fact, countering the Word Faith movement is a big issue for him. Thank goodness for scholars on the charismatic side of things.
She just takes what she likes to hear, uses out of context quotes just as she does with Scripture to support her errors.

To suggest Spurgeon supports her (which is her turning what he says on its head) is asinine. She isn't seeking to learn from him, she's attempting to make him her disciple.

Spurgeon said this, and I agree; "Calvinism is the Gospel." I know what he meant by it, contextually, and he's correct. It also shows clearly that he'd be against the heresy of hyper grace. Of course he is, he's biblical.
 
Nov 12, 2017
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#50
Calvinism would fit my definition of hyper-grace.

Sitten on your butt one day, picken your nose and eating your boogers And God suddenly elects you and make your boogers divine.

That is Hyper-grace IMO.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#51
Calvinism would fit my definition of hyper-grace.

Sitten on your butt one day, picken your nose and eating your boogers And God suddenly elects you and make your boogers divine.

That is Hyper-grace IMO.
Just wanted to capture the foolishness above.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
1,986
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#52
Learned theologians of our day may know Hebrew, may know Greek, may know Spurgeon, and may know Calvin, but if they don’t know Holy Spirit and His love they don’t know God. Having an issue with what she’s saying is different to having an issue with her. I appreciate you are dividing those two things, Angela.

In my opinion JM’s not on trial. She doesn’t need to know Hebrew or Greek to know God. I would show Scriptures that say Holy Spirit is our Teacher and God will teach His people directly, but I don’t really want to get in an argument about who’s context is correct. But on the topic of context, I’ve noticed the NT writers sometimes took OT Scriptures out of context to prove their points. It appears the Spirit of God can do what He wants with His Book. Even when the theologians of His day didn’t agree. They were so confident in their theology they attacked and killed the One they professed to know. Let’s not let the traditions of theology speak louder to us than the Spirit of our Living God.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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#53
Oh, how cute. Christianity has become pragmatism, sentimentalism and one's personal sincerity, not truth grounded in Biblical revelation and sound doctrine. Lol! :rolleyes:
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
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#54
But on the topic of context, I’ve noticed the NT writers sometimes took OT Scriptures out of context to prove their points..
What??

Give us some examples.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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#56
Out of context ... meaning that when Paul quoted form the OT he used only the verses that applied.

This does not have to be interpreted negatively. Out of context means cited from the original material without the full body of the text.

What??

Give us some examples.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,000
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#57
Learned theologians of our day may know Hebrew, may know Greek, may know Spurgeon, and may know Calvin, but if they don’t know Holy Spirit and His love they don’t know God. Having an issue with what she’s saying is different to having an issue with her.
As if learned theologians are without the Spirit and are merely Pharisees. You've just condemned many godly people.

Feel better, spiritual?

Yet you want others to listen to your "learned" theology, except you're exempt of what you charge upon others, right?

Just stop with the accusations bro. It's unChristian, untrue, broad brushing, accusatory, and not one thing is offered to substantiate your charges other than calling people Pharisees.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
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#58
Out of context ... meaning that when Paul quoted form the OT he used only the verses that applied.

This does not have to be interpreted negatively. Out of context means cited from the original material without the full body of the text.
I'd still like to see these quotes - I haven't seen any - what needs to be remembered is that writers and speakers back in the day would sometimes use shortened quotes because they knew the hearers/readers would realize the full context of the simplified quote that was being used.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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#59
What??

Give us some examples.
Im not saying they were wrong, but I am saying the Spirit of God knew His text better than the theologians of the day.

One quick example is Hagar representing Mosaic Law and Sarah representing Grace. Nothing in the context suggests that. In another example in Abraham, the writer of Hebrews says Abraham believed God could bring him back to life. On the surface nothing appears to say that, many theologians might say this is “reading into the text” because it doesn’t say it directly. And these arguments are used to battle out who’s context is right. That’s all well and good, but we also must be open to what the Spirit is saying because He is the One who makes it life to us. Plenty of scholars know Scripture and are well versed in theology without showing the fruit of a transformed life. Why? Because knowing it in the brain and through knowledge is not the same as encountering the One who writes it in our hearts. We are the tablets of the Spirit of God. And we delude ourselves if we believe our education no matter how extensive makes us impervious to error, superior to others, or replaces the inward ministry of the Spirit of God. History has repeatedly taught us the folly of this prideful thinking. Not that I’m pointing fingers at anyone simply discussing the mindset that I’ve seen prevalent in many churches who cling to their religious interpretation of text. I understand the importance of doctrine, but not to the detriment of forgetting the reality of our God Who lives in us. For it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And He is whom I follow. And another voice I will not heed. Not even the voice of tradition. It is only by turning to Him the Spirit of God that the veil is removed. And we see Him as He sees us.
 
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UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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#60
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. (Romans 3:12-18)

Also found in Psalm 14

Not the one I was looking for but this one came up in quick search... but perhaps Cee has something else in mind.




I'd still like to see these quotes - I haven't seen any - what needs to be remembered is that writers and speakers back in the day would sometimes use shortened quotes because they knew the hearers/readers would realize the full context of the simplified quote that was being used.