Some words by Spurgeon;

[TruthTalk]

????? Not sure what this cartoon means Herald.

Hi joaniemarie, I cannot see how this duck story is in any way relative to the topic of your thread,
"Some words by Spurgeon." If you do an internet search you will find that these simple little stories are a way of passing some sort of truth from person to person. The message can be anything you want and comes in the form of a "humorous image", and it will rapidly spread through the internet.

To me it sounds a little akin to our nursery rhymes only they are referred to as a meme; an immature form of communication as far as I can see.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

????? Not sure what this cartoon means Herald.

First of all, thank-you for taking the time to answer with helpful experiences from your life. Without being there, I don't know what to say about the church meetings, except that they sound like they were helpful, and are from a long tradition here in America and Canada. It's difficult to know where the preachers were coming from? If it helped bring people to the Lord, then all things work together for good--
Sometimes it's good to weep for the lost or for ourselves--
sometimes people's emotions are locked up and it's good to release those emotions...
But I think I understand what you are saying-- the Holy Spirit draws people by stirring our hearts and there's no need to beg people, but, maybe that's what those preachers felt led to do? Maybe someone there needed to hear it?

And you are right about religion and politics dividing people sadly, and you do have to learn to let it hit your umbrella, or what just came to mind with the yellow duck in my face, is I used to fly an ultralight hang-glider with another guy who always used to say about all of life's problems:
"Just let it bounce off like rain offa duck!!"
I asked him what he meant, and he said that birds in the water have a sheen of oil in their feathers and water is just repelled off as they just ruffle their feathers and repel life's problems without even being phased by them.

As far as the duck story, it is clearly for all ages, and the message is universal; Come on--
The duck persistently requests something it can not have. Probably like a child, or like many adults too.
It escalates-- and ESCALATES with each encounter! (international or social/political posturing) with the duck being "threatened" with the severe threat of being glued to the tree?
finally,
there is the showdown---
the duck and the vendor have to reach an understanding or have a shoving match--
or the police might have to be called to remove the duck for public harassment.
Then there are the legalities-- the vendor has the legal right, not to serve the duck, something that isn't even on the menu.
So, the duck is not even making a reasonable request--

But, the ice-tea vendor backs down.
think Cuban missile crisis--

and instead of picking a fight with the duck, he offers friendship to a nutty, ungrateful, neighbor--
thereby "loving his neighbor," and his potential enemy at the same time.
He even obeys the commandment of Jesus to show kindness even to those who are unreasonable and ungrateful.
So, it does apply to the debates here I think--
accepting people as they are without being judgmental, or retaliating.
It's just human nature of a fallen world to be seeking something that someone is not even really looking for, and when they get it, they are not happy and are not satisfied, or even grateful.

But the vendor obeyed the bible and welcomed the stranger, and the next time, the duck might remember that someone showed kindness and unconditional acceptance.
there's probably a hundred other behavior lessons here--
not complaining about what is offered, etc...
not sending back food that is not what was ordered, or not perfect in a world where countless millions are suffering and dying of hunger.

 

[joaniemarie]

​OK now it makes sense Herald. Thank you for explaining it.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

​OK now it makes sense Herald. Thank you for explaining it.

HI there! well, you gave me a chuckle--
yeah, I'm the great interpreter of duck wisdom!
I don't know if it's supposed to be interpreted- maybe like art;
we all see it differently--
maybe the main lesson was for kids to teach them how to relate peacefully--

it looks like Spurgeon is getting a good confirmation here!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Thought this was worth re posting in light of all the different kinds of repentance-s going on. Do we cry or do we change our minds and agree with God? I say we change our minds and agree with God. Basically let the Holy Spirit have reign over our thoughts each day so He can change our minds and "we" can be in agreement with Him. Amen!

I had never read this one by Spurgeon!
It showed me starkly that we often think that repentance and despair are synonymous, but they aren't. Despair of what I am is really a self-love that is having a fit about reality...

I know we have to go through it while we are being purged of self-love, but how much easier and quicker it would all be for us if we could see that despairing over our state of imperfection wastes so much time when really, all we need to do is say: yep, I see it. It's gross and unsightly - I am gross and unsightly and selfish and arrogant - thank God that He is working on that in me!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well, to be more specific, I meant liturgical kind of worship-- where the worship just "happens," around you-- there can be sustained "chants," where every minute of the worship or the Mass is sort of programmed. I didn't mean an altered state of mind, really, just sort of zoning out-- and I have seen people walk out of a Catholic Mass who seemed really spaced-out, like they were in another world. But, it's hard to say how or why that happens to some people and not others-- it occurred to me that maybe they were being influenced by a spirit of idolatry-- and they thought it was a religious experience? Then again, you never know where people are mentally or in their life. Maybe the people I saw were on drugs, who knows?

But, it's not my imagination. After attending a formal liturgy years ago, a lady mentioned the same thing wondering what was causing what she was experiencing-- along the lines of that she felt zoned out after the worship.

It's not just a formal church thing-- there are some people that I've seen in a charismatic church that seemed to just be there for an emotional high. One guy even admitted it, he said, he was an adrenaline junkie and the worship got him hyped up.
I think I'm just trying to discern different religious experiences and why some people get "worked up" in worship and why and I think it is a legitimate concern that it can go too far. One charismatic church did the dancing in the aisle thing and another one said that they didn't allow it. So, I'm not just pulling this out of a hat here. Some churches go to extremes where people are laid out on the floor "laughing in the spirit," and I'm just not sure how to discern all that. I've never spoken in tongues, but I don't think it is an altered state-- people remain conscious of what they are doing.

The duck cartoon was funny first of all. I cracked up. It really IS how we are.

In regards to this post, it is a state of children to want to eat a bunch of sugar and run around all excited and hopped up. I was like that after I first met Him. He gave me many consolations. I wanted only to always feel those goosebumps and waves washing over me. If I didn't feel them, I considered any worship, meditating on the word or prayer, to be unsuccessful. I was eating unworthily at the Kings table, but I didn't know it. The verse that comes to mind is: if you are eating at the kings table and you are a man of great appetite, put a knife to your throat.

Thankfully, God sees even to this, and He weans us and puts us on the fast in Spirit to refine our palate.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

I had never read this one by Spurgeon!
It showed me starkly that we often think that repentance and despair are synonymous, but they aren't. Despair of what I am is really a self-love that is having a fit about reality...

I know we have to go through it while we are being purged of self-love, but how much easier and quicker it would all be for us if we could see that despairing over our state of imperfection wastes so much time when really, all we need to do is say: yep, I see it. It's gross and unsightly - I am gross and unsightly and selfish and arrogant - thank God that He is working on that in me!

I don't know-- we are our own worst enemies sometimes; it can be a serious sin to hate ourselves, because the image of God/Christ is within us. same with hating someone else. It's the same as animosity towards the Lord. it's good to give ourselves a hug sometimes, if no one is handy to to give one. There was this strange support group once, where the therapist was a little spaced-out, and he said we all had to find a stuffed animal and imagine we were the stuffed animal and give it a hug. This is not something guys would normally consider. I was home alone, and looking around and came up with a stuffed animal of some kind and gave it a hug. I was embarrassed and never did it again, but, I think it's good therapy. Therapists can be kind of weird, but usually they are very smart about what makes people tick.
Sounds like Spurgeon did too!

I agree-- the duck is human nature exactly. I wonder what he would say about the duck!
Just don't eat the duck-- that would be a little over the top, I think...

 

[Depleted]

I had never read this one by Spurgeon!
It showed me starkly that we often think that repentance and despair are synonymous, but they aren't. Despair of what I am is really a self-love that is having a fit about reality...

I know we have to go through it while we are being purged of self-love, but how much easier and quicker it would all be for us if we could see that despairing over our state of imperfection wastes so much time when really, all we need to do is say: yep, I see it. It's gross and unsightly - I am gross and unsightly and selfish and arrogant - thank God that He is working on that in me!

You still haven't heard what Spurgeon said about repentance. You read a cut-and-paste of what he said.

And speaking of cut-and-paste, since Angela did include the whole of the true source, I'm just going to cut-and-paste that so you can see what Spurgeon really said.

Here is the whole quote, from “All of Grace.” I always get suspicious when I see an ellipsis in the middle of a quote!

“I hear another man cry, “Oh, sir my want of strength lies mainly in this, that I cannot repent sufficiently!” A curious idea men have of what repentance is! Many fancy that so many tears are to be shed, and so many groans are to be heaved, and so much despair is to be endured. Whence comes this unreasonable notion? Unbelief and despair are sins, and therefore I do not see how they can be constituent elements of acceptable repentance; yet there are many who regard them as necessary parts of true Christian experience. They are in great error. Still, I know what they mean, for in the days of my darkness I used to feel in the same way. I desired to repent, but I thought that I could not do it, and yet all the while I was repenting. Odd as it may sound, I felt that I could not feel. I used to get into a corner and weep, because I could not weep; and I fell into bitter sorrow because I could not sorrow for sin. What a jumble it all is when in our unbelieving state we begin to judge our own condition! It is like a blind man looking at his own eyes. My heart was melted within me for fear, because I thought that my heart was as hard as an adamant stone. My heart was broken to think that it would not break. Now I can see that I was exhibiting the very thing which I thought I did not possess; but then I knew not where I was. Remember that the man who truly repents is never satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ. If there be this turning, you have the essence of true repentance, even though no alarm and no despair should ever have cast their shadow upon your mind.“

Please note the bolded part is the ellipsis in Escape to Reality’s quote. That is more words cut, than posted.

The part I like best is this:

“The man who truly repents is neve satisfied with his own repentance. We can no more repent perfectly that we can live perfectly.”

A far cry from just repenting once, as JP and Escape to Reality posit.

It truly bothers me when the great preachers are misquoted and used for to support bad doctrine. I remember Escape to Reality doing a partial quote of Spurgeon another time. So I was on the alert this time! Nice try, JM, but no cigar!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

has turned into a reciprocity thread

no harm there I guess

 

[TruthTalk]

Some words by Spurgeon

This Lord's-Day Morning, December 6th, 1868,
At the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Newington

A Sermon By: C.H. Spurgeon

"And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."- Gen 15:6​

C. H. Spurgeon : Justification by Faith—Illustrated by Abram's Righteousness

With your Bibles open, kindly observe that after it is written his faith was counted to him for righteousness, it is recorded that the Lord said to him, "I am Jehovah that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it." When the soul is graciously enabled to perceive its complete justification by faith, then it more distinctly discerns its calling. Now, the believer perceives his privileged separation and discerns why he was convinced of sin, why he was led away from self-righteousness and the pleasures of this world, to live the life of faith; now he sees his high calling and the prize of it, and from the one blessing of justification he argues the blessedness of all the inheritance to which he is called.

The more clear a man is about his justification the more will he prize his calling, and the more earnestly will he seek to make it sure by perfecting his separation from the world and his conformity to his Lord. Am I a justified man? Then will I not go back to that bondage in which I once was held. Am I now accepted of God through faith? Then will I live no longer by sight, as I once did as a carnal man, when I understood not the power of trusting in the unseen God. One Christian grace helps another, and one act of divine grace casts a refulgence upon another. Calling gleams with double glory side by side with the twin star of justification.

Dear friends, this last word, and I send you home. Have you believed in God? Have you trusted Christ? O that you would do so today! To believe that God speaks truth ought not to be hard; and if we were not very wicked this would never need to be urged upon us, we should do it naturally. To believe that Christ is able to save us seems to me to be easy enough, and it would be if our hearts were not so hard. Believe thy God, man, and think it no little thing to do so. May the Holy Ghost lead thee to a true trust. This is the work of God, that ye believe on Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. Believe that the Son of God can save, and confide thyself alone in him, and he will save thee.

He asks nothing but faith, and even this he gives thee; and if thou hast it, all thy doubts and sins, thy trials and troubles put together, shall not shut thee out of heaven. God shall fulfill his promise, and surely bring thee in to possess the land which floweth with milk and honey.​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You still haven't heard what Spurgeon said about repentance. You read a cut-and-paste of what he said.

And speaking of cut-and-paste, since Angela did include the whole of the true source, I'm just going to cut-and-paste that so you can see what Spurgeon really said.

I don't get the beef, but then I don't come in as much any more.
If repenting is changing the way you think and lining up with Gods mind on matters, then I repent all the time because He is constantly changing how I see things. So...if my mind is constantly being renewed, I am constantly repenting. I could have missed something. I usually do.

But thank you for the longer quote.

 

[joaniemarie]

I don't know-- we are our own worst enemies sometimes; it can be a serious sin to hate ourselves, because the image of God/Christ is within us. same with hating someone else. It's the same as animosity towards the Lord. it's good to give ourselves a hug sometimes, if no one is handy to to give one. There was this strange support group once, where the therapist was a little spaced-out, and he said we all had to find a stuffed animal and imagine we were the stuffed animal and give it a hug. This is not something guys would normally consider. I was home alone, and looking around and came up with a stuffed animal of some kind and gave it a hug. I was embarrassed and never did it again, but, I think it's good therapy. Therapists can be kind of weird, but usually they are very smart about what makes people tick.
Sounds like Spurgeon did too!

I agree-- the duck is human nature exactly. I wonder what he would say about the duck!
Just don't eat the duck-- that would be a little over the top, I think...

I agree Herald about the way we humans have learned to hate ourselves by the worlds standards and our old nature's standards. We are our own worst enemies when we don't see the truth and instead attribute our "feelings and misinformation" to what we think God "feels" for us. And our thinking apart from His grace and truth is very faulty and totally unreliable.

Yet God so loved the world. God so loved us while we were yet sinners via being dead in our trespasses and sins.,before we were made alive unto God in Christ. That is a hard pill to swallow because our old way of thinking is so much a part of what we once were and have yet to unlearn.

I agree with Spurgeon in this matter of repentance too. We humans think we must hate ourselves and therefore cry and wallow and condemn ourselves in order to prove to God (and ourselves) how much we are willing to pay for forgiveness. And all the while Jesus totally paid for that forgiveness. So instead of us leaning on Jesus full atonement (payment in full) ., we try to add to it with interest by calling unclean what Jesus has already made clean. Somehow believing it pleases God if we don't feel worthy in Christ alone.

Oh GACK that is so self righteous. I've done it for years. When I began walking in His righteousness and stopped seeking to establish my own righteousness., that is when the Holy Spirit really began teaching by grace through faith.

Herald, admitting you hugged a stuffed animal makes me respect you all the more.

 

[joaniemarie]

Amen Herald., There was a message on the radio the other day about how Jesus changed the way the unclean are made clean. When Jesus was walking here on earth., a man with leprosy went up to Jesus even though it was totally against the law. Lepers were separated from everyone because the unclean effected the clean making it unclean. Leprosy is very contagious.

The man bowed down to Jesus saying "Lord, if You are willing, you can make me clean. And Jesus stretched out His hand (touching) him saying "I am willing; be cleansed: and immediately his leprosy was cleansed. Matt.8:1-3

Under the law people were not allowed to touch the unclean. Jesus is God and because of that and because He came to bring in this new and living way., Clean touched the unclean and made it CLEAN. Unlike before. Under the law., sin is contagious and infects the clean. Under grace., Grace is contagious and effects the unclean making it clean once and for all. Because of this new and living way that Jesus brought., (grace and truth) we are righteous in Him.

We receive His righteousness as a gift and we who were unclean are now clean and washed as white as snow. That is the new and living way we are to live out our lives as believers. We are righteous in His sight., and as born again people we are to be learning to see as He sees for the rest of our lives. We will be learning how to walk out this new and living way via faith. Heb.11:1

Worth re posting in order to clarify the thoughts on the clean making the unclean ; clean.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I agree with Spurgeon in this matter of repentance too. We humans think we must hate ourselves and therefore cry and wallow and condemn ourselves in order to prove to God (and ourselves) how much we are willing to pay for forgiveness. And all the while Jesus totally paid for that forgiveness. So instead of us leaning on Jesus full atonement (payment in full) ., we try to add to it with interest by calling unclean what Jesus has already made clean. Somehow believing it pleases God if we don't feel worthy in Christ alone.

Herald, admitting you hugged a stuffed animal makes me respect you all the more.

In my own case, it wasn't that I thought I had to hate myself - I really DID hate myself. It seems to me it almost HAS to be the effect of seeing yourself more truly than you did at first.

We all hit our own particular snags or trip over our own particular things, but mine was that...I wanted very badly to be good and to not be this selfish and arrogant person. And that's to be expected too, because when you see someone you admire and you begin to love them, you want to be like who you admire.

But my problem was that I set out to be like who I admired, NOT KNOWING that I could not accomplish it. And that's a normal thing to trip over and is addressed by Paul to the galatians. I wasn't the first person to trip up at that particular point and I won't be the last. And when my self-love saw that I failed in it, that self-love became very distraught and also rabidly impatient and that impatience was not directed only to my own imperfections but towards the imperfections of others also. I could not bear with them nor with myself.

I WAS, as you say, seeking to perfect myself (seek my own righteousness and working), because I wanted to be like the one I admired. I don't believe that to be a bad thing. Wanting to be like my Lord is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. It was the wounded self-love that twisted it up because my motive wasn't pure because of that self-love. And that self-love can only be fixed by praying and waiting for Him to fix it.

It's a huge undertaking to try to bare your own soul to others and try to explain what has happened or is going on within your own self in your spiritual walk. You almost have to wait until you get past a certain point before you can try to explain it because you don't understand it until you've flailed around in it for what seems like forever.

I think...when I get past an obstacle and stop tripping on it, I want to try to help others to not trip on it. And a lot of the time, using the same words they've heard many times is of no help to them. So I try not to use things like when you say: when I began walking in His righteousness and stopped seeking to establish my own righteousness - because it just distresses them more rather than helping them. They've seen it so many times that they gloss over it with glazed eyes. I think what would help them is for you to share your own experience in more detail and to use your own words. Because I think you want to help others in the areas you tripped in too. So trying to explain in different ways helps.

For instance, there are other ways to say "I was seeking my own righteousness."
Like...
I was trying to make my own self perfect
I felt I owed it to God who saved me to be good
I love Him so much and am so grateful that I felt I needed to be good for Him
I kept kicking myself and getting depressed at all the ways I kept failing to be good

All of those ways are highly personal accountings whereas "I was seeking to establish my own righteousness" is not personal but instead has been repeated forever. And yes, I know it is scripture. But we are such that we begin to not hear a sound that keeps repeating exactly the same way, like those in New York city can sleep and not hear the trains and traffic and will just sleep through it all.

I think you get great resistance because you keep insisting on the same words and the same preachers. I think if you put things in your own words and experience, and leave off from what makes others gnash at you, you will be the help that you so desire to be to your sisters. As it is, (and I'm being forward here because I know you will forgive me if it causes any perturbation in you), you are being stubborn in insisting on the same way over and over (same words and phrases, same preachers and men) even when you get such resistance. I think if you use your own words and experience and struggle to describe the things you have walked through and learned in Him, you will be blessed and will be a blessing.

This stubbornness and insistence on your own way, despite great resistance from your bothers and sisters, is you working at cross purposes to what your true desire is - to be a help and a blessing. Your own stubbornness in this is getting in your own way. Pray about this and I think God will show you. I know enough of you, through reading some of your posts to try to ascertain what this great resistance was coming from, to know you will forgive me if I have annoyed you.

 

[joaniemarie]

It's not my intention when I post or present varied devotionals and articles by varied and different Christians to always be in agreement with every single person here on CC. Why? Because it's simply an impossibility. Take a look at the many threads started and the many opinions and many Bible verses given for each person's reason for believing what they believe. We each have different opinions and different topics we hold dear and want to discuss with others. Thus this is called "Christian Chat and forums"

Some believe in healing., some don't. Some like old time preachers and teachers like Spurgeon., some don't. Some are Calvinists., some are not. Some believe in once saved always saved., some don't., some love old time singing and music..., some like the newer worship songs and instrumentals ... some love both....and on we can go down the line of different beliefs and opinions and tastes of the many and varied ideas of what each Christian here holds to. Thankfully we each know "Jesus" is the center.

My intentions of coming to CC are to share the truth from the Bible that I have learned and been helped in just like the many others when they come here and post. Some agree with each other., some don't. And I'm happy to agree to disagree. I don't look at people here as the "resistance" nor is it my position to ascertain who to try to convince to see things my way. If someone doesn't agree., I'm not threatened nor am I looking for a fight or to be angry at anyone. Jesus loves everyone here and that is a message worth sharing.

I will just keep on keeping on and keep on sharing what I've learned and also at times share from the ones who I've learned things from.

For instance., here is an older post that was shared about the hymn writer Frances Ridley Havergale. Her hymns have been a blessing to me and so I like to share somethings about her. Her struggles as a Christian lady who felt condemned for her sin for many years. In her studies she learned that the blood of Jesus cleanses her from all sin and she was free from her condemnation and guilt. Her story is a lot like mine.



Sometimes we think some truths are new but in reality they are not. Here is someone back in the 1800's that had a supposedly "heretical" understanding of grace in the form of our sins being forgiven and those sins were continually being washed by the blood of Jesus.

I was reading about a hymn writer from the 1800's called Frances Ridley Havergal. She wrote many hymns and knew Latin, French, German, Greek and Hebrew.

She also knew by heart the 4 gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation by the time she was 23 years old - yet she still lived in total defeat.

She thought she had "great wickedness in her heart" - because of religious traditions taught to her which is what humanistic belief systems believe. They think Christians are a "new evolution" and thus they need to create and maintain their own self-righteousness.

It wasn't until she was reading in the Greek that the present tense was used for 1 John 1:7 "...His blood cleanseth us from all sin".

She realized all her sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus and thus she believed it and experienced peace and joy in her life because of this truth and lived a holier life.

Here is a direct QUOTE:

" Have we not been limiting 1 John 1:7 , by practically making it refer only to "remission of sins that are past" instead of taking the grand simplicity of "cleanseth from all sin"?

"All" is all; and as we may trust Him to cleanse us from the stain of past sins so we may trust Him to cleanse us from all present defilement; yes, all!

By refusing to take 1 John 1:7 in it's fullness, we will lose the fullness of it's application and power in our lives. It goes on cleansing , and I have no words to tell how my heart rejoices in it."

UNQUOTE:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=zO_...%22%3F&f=false

She got the revelation that all her sins were forgiven because she was in Christ and thus always in the Light and His blood continually cleansed her. She was able to walk free in Christ from that point on. Today she would be called a heretic and being in error by some for having this belief.

Believing the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ finished work on the cross and resurrection will change us as we grow in His grace. We grow in His grace by the "hearing of Christ Himself".

Here is a book for those interested in her life: Jennie Chappell, "Women Who Have Worked and Won: the life story of Mrs. Spurgeon, Mrs. Booth-Tucker, F.R. Havergal, and Ramabai," London: S.W. Partridge & Co. Ltd. 1904

 

[TruthTalk]

It's not my intention when I post or present varied devotionals and articles by varied and different Christians to always be in agreement with every single person here on CC. Why? Because it's simply an impossibility. Take a look at the many threads started and the many opinions and many Bible verses given for each person's reason for believing what they believe. We each have different opinions and different topics we hold dear and want to discuss with others. Thus this is called "Christian Chat and forums"

Some believe in healing., some don't. Some like old time preachers and teachers like Spurgeon., some don't. Some are Calvinists., some are not. Some believe in once saved always saved., some don't., some love old time singing and music..., some like the newer worship songs and instrumentals ... some love both....and on we can go down the line of different beliefs and opinions and tastes of the many and varied ideas of what each Christian here holds to. Thankfully we each know "Jesus" is the center.

My intentions of coming to CC are to share the truth from the Bible that I have learned and been helped in just like the many others when they come here and post. Some agree with each other., some don't. And I'm happy to agree to disagree. I don't look at people here as the "resistance" nor is it my position to ascertain who to try to convince to see things my way. If someone doesn't agree., I'm not threatened nor am I looking for a fight or to be angry at anyone. Jesus loves everyone here and that is a message worth sharing.

I will just keep on keeping on and keep on sharing what I've learned and also at times share from the ones who I've learned things from.

For instance., here is an older post that was shared about the hymn writer Frances Ridley Havergale. Her hymns have been a blessing to me and so I like to share somethings about her. Her struggles as a Christian lady who felt condemned for her sin for many years. In her studies she learned that the blood of Jesus cleanses her from all sin and she was free from her condemnation and guilt. Her story is a lot like mine.

Hi joaniemarie, wonderful post and especially the story of
Frances Ridley Havergale and her music.

February 4, 1874 • Frances Havergal Wrote "Take My Life and Let it Be"

Frances Havergal wrote her famous hymn while on a visit. I went for a little visit of five days," wrote Frances Havergal explaining what prompted her to write her well-known hymn Take My Life and Let it Be

"There were ten persons in the house; some were unconverted and long prayed for, some converted but not rejoicing Christians. [God] gave me the prayer, 'Lord, give me all in this house.' And He just did. Before I left the house, everyone had got a blessing. The last night of my visit I was too happy to sleep and passed most of the night in renewal of my consecration, and those little couplets formed themselves and chimed in my heart one after another till they finished with "ever only, ALL FOR THEE!"

It was on this day, February 4, l874, that Frances wrote the hymn that is still sung around the world.

One of the most dedicated Christian women of the nineteenth century, Frances was the youngest child of a Church of England minister. Though she was always in frail health, she led an active life, encouraging many people to turn to Jesus and others to seek a deeper spiritual walk.

Frances had begun reading and memorizing the Bible at the age of four (eventually memorizing The Psalms, Isaiah and most of the New Testament). At seven she wrote her first poems. Several of her mature verses became hymns. In addition to "Take My Life," she wrote such favorites as "I Gave My Life for Thee," "Like a River Glorious," and "Who Is on the Lord's Side?"

Because her voice was lovely, Frances was in demand as a concert soloist. She also was a brilliant pianist and learned several modern languages as well as Greek and Hebrew. With all her education, however, Frances Havergal maintained a simple faith and confidence in her Lord. She never wrote a line of poetry without praying over it.

One of the lines of Frances Havergal's hymn says, "Take my silver and my gold; not a mite would I withhold." In 1878, four years after writing the hymn, Miss Havergal wrote a friend, The Lord has shown me another little step, and, of course, I have taken it with extreme delight. 'Take my silver and my gold' now means shipping off all my ornaments to the Church Missionary House, including a jewel cabinet that is really fit for a countess, where all will be accepted and disposed of for me...Nearly fifty articles are being packed up. I don't think I ever packed a box with such pleasure."

LYRICS

Take my life and let it be
Consecrated, Lord, to Thee;
Take my moments and my days,
Let them flow in ceaseless praise;
Let them flow in ceaseless praise

Take my voice and let me sing,
Always, only for my King.
Take my lips and let them be
Filled with messages from Thee;
Filled with messages from thee

Take my will and make it Thine,
It shall be no longer mine;
Take myself and I will be
Ever, only, all for Thee.
Ever, only, all for thee.

 

[joaniemarie]

Been doing some more updated reading on Spurgeon and can say we agree on many things and disagree on many others. I was raised in a GARBC church that leaned heavily towards Calvin's teachings. I agree with some of Calvin and disagree with a bunch of his teachings too. No one person who reads and teaches and writes about the Bible has it down 100%.

There is another thread started about the book of Job and I didn't want to over power Star's thread either. But did want to share some great stuff about seeing God in light of what Jesus revealed under the new covenant of grace vs the covenant of law.

It is a blessing to be able to share these things about the love of God in Christ. How even the many men and woman of God over the years like Frances Ridley Havergal had different learning experiences and education levels., and also opinions yet they were mere mortals just like we are.

We each have the Holy Spirit to teach us and we can take from others different opinions but we can also have the freedom to follow the truth as it's revealed in the Bible to us. I was just so excited to read this about Job I want to share it here to be considered. This book by Tom Tompkins looks to be a good one.

“If you’re suffering, you must have done something bad. God must be punishing you.” That must be one of the oldest lies in history. Here’s another. “God is using these hard times to teach you humility.” These lies can be traced back to one of the oldest and most misunderstood stories in the Bible – the story of Job. As I’m sure you know, Job was a man who lost everything. The Book of Job is not mainly about his loss, but how he tried to process his loss with the help of three religious friends.

When I wrote my Job post a year and a half ago I had no idea that so many Christians would get upset by me telling them that God does not take away his good gifts. (To be honest, I wasn’t the first to say that. I stole that revelation from Romans 11:29: “God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.” So if it makes you angry, take it up with the other Paul.) If you missed that post, here’s the short version; God does not give and take away. The only thing He’ll take off you is your sin, shame, and sickness.
I also had no idea that Tom Tompkins was writing a little gem entitled Understanding the Book of Job. In his book, Tompkins places the blame for Job’s woes squarely at the feet of the Devil:

Much of what Job’s friends told him exactly what we hear to today… While Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar did not condemn God, they did accuse and condemn Job. They were wrong to do so as it was not God or Job’s fault that the terrible events had taken place. Let’s not forget that none of these men had a revelation of the Devil. If the name “Satan” had been mentioned to any of them, they probably would have responded with “Who?” (pp.86,95)

“How convenient to blame the Devil,” you may say. “Surely God could have stopped Satan. Surely God set Job up by boasting about him.” Actually neither is true. Read the Job account in a literal translation such as Young’s and you will see that Satan came gunning for him:

And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, “Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?” (Job 1:8, YLT)

Satan had set his heart against Job. “So why didn’t God stop the Devil?” Good question. We might also ask, “Why doesn’t God stop earthquakes or famines or wars?” The answer is, not everything that happens is God’s responsibility. He left the planet in Adam’s control and Adam handed it to the Devil. Satan went for Job because he could. When God said, “All that he has is in thy power” (Job 1:12, see also 2:6), He wasn’t handing Job over to Satan – God doesn’t do deals with the Devil! – He was simply stating a fact. The whole unredeemed “world is under the control of the evil one” (1 Joh 5:19).

You have it better than Job

Job wasn’t saved. He wasn’t filled with the Holy Spirit. He had some understanding of God but he was a fearful and superstitious man filled with self pity and not a little self-righteousness (see Job 32:1).

Don’t ever compare yourself to Job! Jesus didn’t die on the cross to give you Job’s life but His life. It is Christ who lives in you, not Job. As Tompkins explains in his book, God does not inflict death and sickness on us to teach us stuff. God is more than capable of disciplining (i.e., training) us through His Word (2 Tim 3:16).

One of Job’s friends, Eliphaz, reasoned that Job was being afflicted on account of his sins. This same line is often heard today. When things go wrong we pray, “Lord search me and see if there be any wicked way in me.” When there are problems within the church, we hunt for “sin in the camp.” Do you realize how absurd this is? If God really judged us according to our sins, who could stand? If God was in the business of punishing sin in the camp, there wouldn’t be any camp!

Only a man ignorant of Jesus and His work on the cross would say that God punishes us for our sin. Eliphaz was such a man. God said of him, “You have not spoken concerning Me rightly” (Job 42:8). Anyone who says your hardships are God’s punishments is, like Eliphaz, not speaking of God rightly.

Later, Eliphaz suggested that Job would receive the blessings of God if he was worthy of them. Indeed, Job began to think exactly this way. “Look at all I’ve done.” This is equally absurd. God is not beholden to any of us. God blesses us in accordance with the riches of His grace, not the merits of our performance.

Why is Job’s story in the Bible? It is not there so we can look to him as a role model (we have Jesus!) but so that we might learn from his example. Those who don’t learn by example tend to learn by experience and experience is a harsh teacher. For those of you who would rather not learn the hard way, here’s the lesson: It is always Satan’s intention to harm us; it is always God’s intention to bless us. When you confuse the latter with the former, your reality will be defined by a lie making it virtually impossible to receive all that God has for you.

If you relate to God on the basis of obligation and performance, then you will falsely interpret life’s hardships and spiritual attacks as works of God. Instead of submitting in faith to the unconditional love of the Father and resisting the devil, your unbelief will lead you to submit to the devil and resist the One who loves you. It’s a recipe for disaster that is played out a thousand times every day by those who relate to God as Job did – with superstition and fear.

God does not desire your sacrifices

For as long as Job lived in fearful religion, trusting in the sacrifices of his own hands, he was setting himself up for disaster. “Those who cling to idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs.” But when he finally shut up and repented of his stupid theology, he opened the door to the blessings of God. The lesson we take from Job is worth repeating: the Devil is bad but our Father is good and He loves us and desires to bless us. This book will help you see that

 

[Nehemiah6]

Job wasn’t saved...

More NONSENSE from Joseph Prince it would seem.

If Job wasn't saved, Scripture would not bear this testimony regarding Job:

Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD...Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate...Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness. (Ezekiel 14:13,14,18, 20).

Why do you continue to post false teaching from false teachers? Or would you rather believe their nonsense than the Word of God.

 

[joaniemarie]

[FONT=&quot]Some personal comments about being "saved" Was Job born saved? No.
Was Job saved? Not at the beginning of the book of Job.
Did Job even hear about the coming Savior and how much did Job know about God's love? I don't know.
Did Job understand more at the end of the book of Job? Yes.

I believe Job was brought into the truth by the end of the book and God revealed Himself to Job. But in the beginning I believe Job didn't have the truth about who God was and how God dealt with people.

Some helpful comments from 2 guys on the article about Job;





I so wish tradition would actually use James 5 to interpret Job. What they do instead is look at the oldest book in the Bible, see a man who had no Word of God to rely upon for true info, he had no revealed covenant with God like Abraham did or Noah, he had no knowledge of who God is, he didn’t know the devil existed.

he didn’t know God isn’t the one who brings tragedy and pain and neither did his friends including the young man, and yet with their limited understanding of God, religious tradition holds Job up as an example of theological truth. They insist upon using Job as an example of how God deals with His Family, post cross.

What the New Covenant admonition is, is to look at the end of the Lord as James states and see that God is full of tender mercies and compassion. We’re not told to look at Job’s suffering, the debate between the five people, but only to see the compassion and goodness of God.

[/FONT]

• 
  
  
  For me, Understanding that Job was an example(for us) of a man without a covenant changed how I saw God’s progressive plan to save us.
  
  If Abraham was the subject of Satan’s attention (accusation)the story would read
  “Get out of my face Satan, I curse you. Of coarse he is blessed, he has a covenant and he has Faith in the “One God” to complete the terms of that covenant”. And then, very very shortly after those words, a distinct absence of the accuser.
  
  Tradition loses the point of the story when they mold Job to fit their theology.
  
  

 

[Speak2Me]

Some personal comments about being "saved" Was Job born saved? No.
Was Job saved? Not at the beginning of the book of Job.

I believe Job was brought into the truth by the end of the book and God revealed Himself to Job. But in the beginning I believe Job didn't have the truth about who God was and how God dealt with people.

A judgment call. Job was ready for Heaven because God said he was.

Job 1:8 ​

The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

Some helpful comments from 2 guys on the article about Job;

The “Patience” of Job – Escape to Reality

https://escapetoreality.org/2016/09/30/patience-of-job-james-5v11/
Sep 30, 2016 - What the New Covenant admonition is, is to look at the end of the Lord as James states and see that God is full of tender mercies and compassion. We're not told to look at Job's suffering, the debate between the five people, but only to see the compassion and goodness of God. richard elson // October 1, ...

Talk about the teachings of men...